Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[diabolic_67]

I think what is trying to suggest that the hanger was not resistant to an attack, or that the cost of an armoured aircraft pen is relative still a small amount when compared to the cost of loosing a national airborne surveillance capability.
Yes you maybe correct that Minhas had a very large covered shed for Swedish aircraft, but the hangers were not secure and could not stop miscreants from completing their mission. I feel that it maybe a missed assessment of the asymmetric threat that exists in Pakistan, and affects us all.

that my friend is total and utter B.S.

all Saabs were parked inside proper hangers, the likes of which u see above in the karakarum eagle pic.
infact one of the saab hanger is huge, so huge that it can house three saabs simultaneously and it was this hanger that was hit and the rpg rocket was only able to penetrate the hanger as the hanger door was open 1/3 of the way to make way for the fuel bowser.
furthermore all saab hangers are climate controlled.

the pics we see of the saabs parked in "open sheds" are the pics of the flight line and not of actual hangers that house the awacs.
all this confusion has been circulated by over zealous kids who cant differenciate their hind side from their front.
i hope that clears the confussion.

So they finally officially admit to one aircraft totaled in the attack. I wonder what happened to the other two. I won't be surprised that this is still a half truth, or half lie, whichever suits you from your frame of reference.

 

[Jango]

that my friend is total and utter B.S.

all Saabs were parked inside proper hangers, the likes of which u see above in the karakarum eagle pic.
infact one of the saab hanger is huge, so huge that it can house three saabs simultaneously and it was this hanger that was hit and the rpg rocket was only able to penetrate the hanger as the hanger door was open 1/3 of the way to make way for the fuel bowser.
furthermore all saab hangers are climate controlled.

This one...

I got it checked, this may be the flight line, but aircraft are left in that tin shed for overnight or prolonged parking, as is evident through some pics which show the pitot tubes covered, chocks in place, and intake covers as well.

Aircraft might have been in the larger hangar during Kamra attack (will try to check), but they are routinely left in the shed.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

This one...

I got it checked, this may be the flight line, but aircraft are left in that tin shed for overnight or prolonged parking, as is evident through some pics which show the pitot tubes covered, chocks in place, and intake covers as well.

Aircraft might have been in the larger hangar during Kamra attack (will try to check), but they are routinely left in the shed.

regarding the stationing of the ac, it all depends on the operational requirment of the ac in question. if they are ready to get air borne at a monents notice than yes the ac will be left on the flight line but if their is no immediate operational requirment for the ac than it iwll be parked in the hanger.
specially now with all the terror activety when even the us military is not safe from them. gone are the days when ac were left parked on the flight line on peace time row after row.

 

[Jango]

as i recall the pics u have posted above are from chaklala n not kamrah

They are 100% from Kamra, I'll see if we can identify them from Google Earth. And Chaklala has no hangars like these. Besides, Saab squadron is in Kamra.

Edit: Checked on GE. There is no Hangar like this in Chaklala, while there is exact same structure present in Kamra opposite the tin shed structure.

regarding the stationing of the ac, it all depends on the operational requirment of the ac in question. if they are ready to get air borne at a monents notice than yes the ac will be left on the flight line but if their is no immediate operational requirment for the ac than it iwll be parked in the hanger.

It's all pretty random as you said, no hard and fast rule. Maintenance is done within the hangar though.

specially now with all the terror activety when even the us military is not safe from them. gone are the days when ac were left parked on the flight line on peace time row after row.

Agreed, that too all at one time!

 

[Nishan_101]

This one...

I got it checked, this may be the flight line, but aircraft are left in that tin shed for overnight or prolonged parking, as is evident through some pics which show the pitot tubes covered, chocks in place, and intake covers as well.

Aircraft might have been in the larger hangar during Kamra attack (will try to check), but they are routinely left in the shed.

PAF should have upgraded their bases and should have made some new ones in SINDH. And PAF should have placed an order for about 7 Saab-2000SEW&Cs and about 11 Saab-2000 and 7 Saab-340 Military Transport and about 7 Saab-340/Saab-2000 SIGNIT/ELINT or reconnaince instead of Army getting 3-5 US ones...

PAF should also have bought 7 of these so that they can place 2 Saab-2000AEW&C and 2 ZDK-03AEW&C for Naval role along with procurement of 11 Y-9MPA

 

[Fieldmarshal]

PAF should have upgraded their bases and should have made some new ones in SINDH. And PAF should have placed an order for about 7 Saab-2000SEW&Cs and about 11 Saab-2000 and 7 Saab-340 Military Transport and about 7 Saab-340/Saab-2000 SIGNIT/ELINT or reconnaince instead of Army getting 3-5 US ones...



PAF should also have bought 7 of these so that they can place 2 Saab-2000AEW&C and 2 ZDK-03AEW&C for Naval role along with procurement of 11 Y-9MPA

and money grows on trees !!!

 

[TOPGUN]

PAF is just fine with what it has and knows it's needs the amount of awacs aircraft and ecm aircrafts in the fleet are just fine ..infact, good enough so lets stop the lost dreams on part of PAF and enjoy and be thankful to our AF.

 

[Glitcher]

PAF is just fine with what it has and knows it's needs the amount of awacs aircraft and ecm aircrafts in the fleet are just fine ..infact, good enough so lets stop the lost dreams on part of PAF and enjoy and be thankful to our AF.

Agreed There is no satisfaction the more we have the more we desire

 

[diabolic_67]

I want to lay the "would have could have should have" arguments to rest.

The aircraft are parked in pens are per operational requirements.

The attack that came on MINHAS was very well planned and coordinated, beyond the scope of any rag tag Taliban or insurgent / terrorist movement. It is irrelevant where the aircraft would have been parked, since the PAF planners did not prepare for a suicide attack squad. For the record, it is impossible to stop attackers who decide to kill themselves for a mission.

Operational aircraft cannot be locked down and put under bomb blankets.

What happened is a national tragedy and a continuation of asymmetric and guerrilla warfare focused on key Pakistani capabilities acquired during the Musharraf government. Till the time a correct threat assessment is made by professionals and effective security measures, employing technology, trained manpower, and network centric quick response teams supported with heavy fire power and night fighting capability, these attacks will continue to succeed at various levels.

This one...

 

[Glitcher]

I want to lay the "would have could have should have" arguments to rest.

The aircraft are parked in pens are per operational requirements.

The attack that came on MINHAS was very well planned and coordinated, beyond the scope of any rag tag Taliban or insurgent / terrorist movement. It is irrelevant where the aircraft would have been parked, since the PAF planners did not prepare for a suicide attack squad. For the record, it is impossible to stop attackers who decide to kill themselves for a mission.

Operational aircraft cannot be locked down and put under bomb blankets.

What happened is a national tragedy and a continuation of asymmetric and guerrilla warfare focused on key Pakistani capabilities acquired during the Musharraf government. Till the time a correct threat assessment is made by professionals and effective security measures, employing technology, trained manpower, and network centric quick response teams supported with heavy fire power and night fighting capability, these attacks will continue to succeed at various levels.

So by Your point of view spec ops should be assigned for such duty

 

[White Lightning]

[B]Pakistan military conducting 'Saffron Bandit' exercise[/B]

 

[diabolic_67]

A blind Spec Ops unit facing a multi prong attack in FIBUA/MOUT is quite stressed. Deploying spec ops teams for sentry duties is a sheer waste. They should be on short notice deployments tied to air units for fast roping into a hot zone when primary QRF calls for backup under heavy fire, or to neutralize a VP hostage or clearance situation.

What I suggest is correct threat analysis, deployment of a multi-layered security system, night fighting capability, and training, training, training. When we do the same for all other OPS missions, why do we ignore security and the threat it represents to our Vital Points? Baffles me.

It took just one trained person with the correct gear (need I say more?), training, and optics to interdict the complete miscreant team in Kamra. Imagine if it was properly setup for the conventional forces, then there is really no threat to our assets.

Maybe the security of key conventional warfare assets should also be handed over to Strategic forces, so at least they can survive the asymmetric warfare of attrition that Pakistan is currently enduring. Otherwise, the strategic assets will themselves become vulnerable to a first wave if the conventional forces and the key capabilities acquired during Musharraf Era are neutralized prior to their actual need of deployment.

So by Your point of view spec ops should be assigned for such duty

 

[Nishan_101]

Though better for PAF to bought about 7 Saab-2000 AEW&Cs along with 11 Saab-2000 and 7 Saab-340 for Transport and replace the aging Foker and put them as MPA for PN...

 

[Arsalan]

PAF should have upgraded their bases and should have made some new ones in SINDH. And PAF should have placed an order for about 7 Saab-2000SEW&Cs and about 11 Saab-2000 and 7 Saab-340 Military Transport and about 7 Saab-340/Saab-2000 SIGNIT/ELINT or reconnaince instead of Army getting 3-5 US ones...



PAF should also have bought 7 of these so that they can place 2 Saab-2000AEW&C and 2 ZDK-03AEW&C for Naval role along with procurement of 11 Y-9MPA

Though better for PAF to bought about 7 Saab-2000 AEW&Cs along with 11 Saab-2000 and 7 Saab-340 for Transport and replace the aging Foker and put them as MPA for PN...

By the way, the discussion is about what should have been done to stop this terrorist attack and what could have prevented the damage. can you enlighten us how buying 7 planes for this and 7 for that and more for BS could have helped in preventing the damage done by this terrorist attack??

Cut this Nishan!!
How many times you have been found guilty of dreaming things that are not possible and not even required. PLEASE!!

 

[Nishan_101]

I think we need to improve our security at all the bases that we have... By proper training and equiping the soldiers...