Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[fatman17]

Sorry to go off topic. Just saw some videos of the Chinese Aviation show and i think that the JF-17 RD-93D engine, smoke issue is still not addressed completely. It was giving smoke.

there was smoke at take-off but during the air drill, no smoke was detected. - looks normal to me

 

[Indestructible]

there was smoke at take-off but during the air drill, no smoke was detected. - looks normal to me

There WAS smoke during the drill.

 

[fatman17]

There WAS smoke during the drill.

so whats your point??? u seem to be the expert here!

 

[Indestructible]

so whats your point??? u seem to be the expert here!

Sir! Meant no disrespect and no intent to be rude I already posted in the JF-17 forum about the smoke but no one answered. The plane did smoke a bit as you can see in the video but I saw a similar video of F-18 during an airshow. F-18's engine released some smoke when making turns like JF-17. Could you please explain why does this happen?

 

[fatman17]

Sir! Meant no disrespect and no intent to be rude I already posted in the JF-17 forum about the smoke but no one answered. The plane did smoke a bit as you can see in the video but I saw a similar video of F-18 during an airshow. F-18's engine released some smoke when making turns like JF-17. Could you please explain why does this happen?

i am not a aero expert, but when fuel and air 'mix and burn' it smokes - all engines 'smoke'.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir! Meant no disrespect and no intent to be rude I already posted in the JF-17 forum about the smoke but no one answered. The plane did smoke a bit as you can see in the video but I saw a similar video of F-18 during an airshow. F-18's engine released some smoke when making turns like JF-17. Could you please explain why does this happen?

Hi,

Engines smoke----it is not a big deal----it is not like piston engines where if you have black smoke then you are worried of excessive fuel burning---and if you have blue smoke then either you have weak rings or bad valves---so---it is not a sign of a bad engine---

 

[F86 Saber]

Hi,

Engines smoke----it is not a big deal----it is not like piston engines where if you have black smoke then you are worried of excessive fuel burning---and if you have blue smoke then either you have weak rings or bad valves---so---it is not a sign of a bad engine---

I think Mr. Chogy explained the difference between smoking and non smoking missiles so does the same theory apply for jets as well? i.e they'll be easy to detect if they smoke?

But i guess with all the long range RADAR's and the AEWACS flying around detecting with the naked eye doesn't matter much....

 

[ice_man]

can anybody shed some light on why pakistan changed its mind to go from the ERIEYE type of configuration for the chinese awacs to a more "dish" or E2 type configuration? I am sure the "dish" doesn't rotate it possibly cannot given the size of the Y8 & drag issues.

 

[TaimiKhan]

can anybody shed some light on why pakistan changed its mind to go from the ERIEYE type of configuration for the chinese awacs to a more "dish" or E2 type configuration? I am sure the "dish" doesn't rotate it possibly cannot given the size of the Y8 & drag issues.

Its dish can and does rotates and has 2-sided radar antenna configuration, with the option to use both or single side. It has an ESA type of radar, AESA or PESA is still to be clarified, but most chances & as per my knowledge, its a PESA kind of radar. It is more like an AWACS compared to an AEW&C variant, which the Erieye is, due to its smaller size. Y-8 is a bigger plane, thus it can accommodate more men and control stations.

It gives you the option to have look into the tech, make changes as per your own requirements, have secrecy, less costly compared to western stuff and since in future majority of the airforce is gonna be of Chinese origin, it gives you more space to integrate the Chinese origin planes with these AWACS, which we can't do with Erieyes. It has 360 degree coverage and the range of the radar is also pretty impressive.

 

[Arsalan]

even the radar configration is not confirmed as yet unless you have some one in china to update you regarding it, let alone RESA or AESA!
taimi, can you please give a link stating that it have 2-sided radar antenna configuration?
i just want to check it for further details and information!

regards!

 

[Areesh]

even the radar configration is not confirmed as yet unless you have some one in china to update you regarding it, let alone RESA or AESA!
taimi, can you please give a link stating that it have 2-sided radar antenna configuration?
i just want to check it for further details and information!

regards!

Isn't this a confirmation either for the AESA radar. Looks like a very confirmed news for AESA radar.

November 15: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) received its first Chinese-built ZDK-03 Advanced Warning & Control Systems (AWACS) aircraft on November 13 at a ceremony at Hanzhong in China attended by Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Chief of the Air Staff for the PAF.

CETC of China is building four aircraft for the PAF from a $278 million (€204 million) contract signed in 2008. The ZDK-03 is a variant of the Shaanxi Y-8, itself a derivative of the Soviet-designed Antonov An-12 transport aircraft and has a Chinese Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, reported to have a greater range than that of the PAF's Saab 2000 Erieye system.

Pakistan’s new AWACS

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Source Air force monthly, AirForces Monthly: The world’s number one military aviation magazine
So Confirmed the RADAR is AESA .

 

[TaimiKhan]

Source Air force monthly, AirForces Monthly: The world’s number one military aviation magazine
So Confirmed the RADAR is AESA .

Problem with these sources is, they may be assuming it based on the fact that, 2 of the Chinese AEW&C platforms are based on AESA tech, so in my opinion they may be assuming it that this one may also have an AESA radar, which may not be the reality.

Had they quoted any official source in this regard, then we may have said that its for sure an AESA as some official source quoted it. But since there is no official word to it, thus even now its now clear which type of radar it has.

But my bet for now is on a ESA, most probably the PESA kind.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Problem with these sources is, they may be assuming it based on the fact that, 2 of the Chinese AEW&C platforms are based on AESA tech, so in my opinion they may be assuming it that this one may also have an AESA radar, which may not be the reality.

Had they quoted any official source in this regard, then we may have said that its for sure an AESA as some official source quoted it. But since there is no official word to it, thus even now its now clear which type of radar it has.

But my bet for now is on a ESA, most probably the PESA kind.

here are two more source, with a bit different details.
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

ZDK-03 is an export AWACS system being developed for the Pakistani Air Force. This project was initiated in the early 2000. A prototype (serial # T0518/Project 021) based on Y-8 Category II Platform was first discovered at CFTE in early 2006. Unlike KJ-200, this variant carries a tranditional rotodome above its fuselage, with a mechanically rotating antenna inside. Therefore the Y-8 AWACS was speculated to be developed for the export market only as it appears less advanced than KJ-200 which features a fixed AESA radar. However this design does provide a true 360° coverage. The AEW radar may be the product of the 38th Institute/CETC, but no details are available. The aircraft also features a solid nose with MAWS sensors on both sides, as well as two small vertial tail stablizers. The Y-8 AWACS protoype was promoted to Pakistani AF in 2006. After some negotiations a much improved design was developed based on PAF's specifications. The variant is now dubbed ZDK-03 and is based on the new Y-8 Category III Platform featuring 6-blade propellers. It was reported in early 2009 that a total of 4 has been ordered by PAF in a $278m deal. The first ZDK-03 rolled out in November 2010 at SAC, with the delivery to be scheduled by the end of 2010. ZDK-03 is expected to serve as an airborne command & control center for the JF-17 fighter fleet currently in service with PAF.
- Last Updated 11/14/10

other Pakistan Surmounts Sanctions To Revive Airpower - Defense News

Malik said this was linked to its considerable export potential, "as the JF-17 is the only medium-tech aircraft in this price bracket, so there is a queue of vendors wanting to supply systems for the aircraft."

December also saw Pakistan sign a $278 million deal for four Chinese KJ-2000/ZDK03 AEW&C aircraft, whose active electronically steered array radar is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600. It is somewhat similar to the Saab-2000-mounted Ericsson FRS-890 Erieye system on order from Sweden.

The ZDK-03 purchase, as with the joint JF-17 program, has an element of technology transfer, said defense analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium.

 

[TaimiKhan]

here are two more source, with a bit different details.
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force


other Pakistan Surmounts Sanctions To Revive Airpower - Defense News

The first para, in which the line you have highlighted says AEW, meaning Airborne Early Warning, not AESA. Even this source says to be less capable then then Chinese AESA ones. So if its less capable one for export markt, it would not be an AESA based.

and as for the second para, again, the writer is comparing KJ-2000 platform with ZDK-03, thus what else to say about what would he be knowing, and if you see the dishes of both platforms, they have different markings, and the prototype of ZDK-03 could be clearly seen with its dish mounted dome at different positions in different pictures, thus the prototype one had a rotating dome, thus it could not be compared with KJ-2000.

Plus, after your highlighted part, the writer says this:

It is somewhat similar to the Saab-2000-mounted Ericsson FRS-890 Erieye system on order from Sweden.

Meaning he is saying it would be a liner shaped configuration, but we saw a dome shaped configuration, thus in my view he is not that much a reliable source or a knowledgeable source. As i had said, people must had and did assumed that since China has AESA based platforms, thus this 3rd would be an AESA based too, many people proved wrong who were advocating that its linear shaped ZDK-03 we are getting and the final product was dome shaped, thus people can make mistakes and this writer made a mistake too.

So dear, there is no reliable enough source which can clarify what the dome has in reality, and as said, my bet (based on my sources) is on PESA for now. Its for sure is an ESA radar.