Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[pakpower]

Its easy to sit there typing "phalcon is bigger and more expensive, so it must be much better and PAF need something just as big and expensive". Why don't you try explaining WHY the PAF need KJ-2000? Why aren't Erieye and ZDK-03 good enough?

Because of difference in performance specially in radar ranges and many more.

 

[Rank]

Agreed. We go for KJ2000 rather thn go for KJ200. On the otherside we already go for SAAB platform similar to KJ200. Sometime look me soo stupid why we go for KJ200 ? better thn get more SAAB.

About Expensive KJ2000 we already maintain 25 years old (more cost more expensive to maintain such 20 years old aircraft rememebr we also have C-130s since last 20-25 years and (that time they are really xpensive). Point is CHINA KJ200 is useless platform for us better thn go for more saab and if intrested thn go for KJ2000 rather than go for KJ200.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Agreed. We go for KJ2000 rather thn go for KJ200. On the otherside we already go for SAAB platform similar to KJ200. Sometime look me soo stupid why we go for KJ200 ? better thn get more SAAB.

About Expensive KJ2000 we already maintain 25 years old (more cost more expensive to maintain such 20 years old aircraft rememebr we also have C-130s since last 20-25 years and (that time they are really xpensive). Point is CHINA KJ200 is useless platform for us better thn go for more saab and if intrested thn go for KJ2000 rather than go for KJ200.

Stealth if you read Mark's post again it clearly says Pakistan was included into KJ-200 program with the insurance of active part in development of the system,... No one know about the outcome of the project when compared to Erieye... to me intention of PAF is to have a capability to built them at home as they are simpler than Phalcon like systems which are complex and expensive.

Being a defensive air force i don't see any shortcomings in thinking of PAF. Self reliance is a long standing dream of Pakistan armed forces and airforce specially.

 

[Rank]

Stealth if you read Mark's post again it clearly says Pakistan was included into KJ-200 program with the insurance of active part in development of the system,... No one know about the outcome of the project when compared to Erieye... to me intention of PAF is to have a capability to built them at home as they are simpler than Phalcon like systems which are complex and expensive.

Being a defensive air force i don't see any shortcomings in thinking of PAF. Self reliance is a long standing dream of Pakistan armed forces and airforce specially.

Dear seriously after even getting these Chines hardware i bet we are LACKING IN HUGE AMOUNT OF STATE OF THE ART TECHNOLGY (Quality) about quantity we have small country but before we have ahead over our enemy in Quality but now against Su30MKi, Phalcon, F18 or EF or Mig 35 or Rafale, Mig29, C17s, Hawkeye, maybe soon Apache etc WE ARE DAMN LACKING IN TECHONOLGY Qoute my words!

 

[Patriot]

Dear seriously after even getting these Chines hardware i bet we are LACKING IN HUGE AMOUNT OF STATE OF THE ART TECHNOLGY (Quality) about quantity we have small country but before we have ahead over our enemy in Quality but now against Su30MKi, Phalcon, F18 or EF or Mig 35 or Rafale, Mig29, C17s, Hawkeye, maybe soon Apache etc WE ARE DAMN LACKING IN TECHONOLGY Qoute my words!

They have the money, we dont!We can only buy what we can afford.Quote my words!

 

[Rank]

They have the money, we dont!We can only buy what we can afford.Quote my words!

Our economy crisis starts from 2007 not before "Quote my words" + "We have very strong economy since 2003 - 2006 with huge $$ reserve. WHERE IS OUR MONEY ????? simply OUR SO CALLED SUPER DUPER LEADERS PUT ALL MONEY IN POCKETS AND MOVE ON! thats the simple anwer dont blame all the time MONEY because YES WE HAVE MONEY! but never spend @ proper place. look at PAF since 1990-2007 only 4-8 F16 LOL F7PG (nuthing State of Art in this aircraft even since enter in service time)

Since last 20 years our leaders playing Cricket! even today we lost everymatch in Cricket as well! AIRFORCE INVENTORY Deal is out of Question because our leaders have thr own Issues. MODERNIZATION OF ANY MILITARY needs BRAIN before money!


Dont mind but fact is:

We dont have 1 single Foriegn Policy ( jahan America chahta hey jang shuru karo ham karnay lagtay hain) WE DONT NEED MONEY TO STOP THIS!

Lack in Leader ship (Blackwater asay ghoom rahe hey jesay unka mulk hey) WE DONT NEED MONEY TO STOP THIS!

Since 1990-2007 lac in State of the Art weapon still today (hamko ye nahe pata hamnay koon sa hatyaar kis market say uthana hey aur kesay modernization karna hey Army and Airforce ko bas jo jahan say mila baag paray lenay)


Our leaders have no brain no tactics how to DEMAND for weapon with anycountry jisnay offer ke koshi koshi chal paray uskay pechay! thats our policy frankly speaking Modernization need BRAIN not money and Please stop blaming all the time money we have crsis since last 2 years not since last 30 years!

 

[hj786]

Because of difference in performance specially in radar ranges and many more.

Maximum radar range stated for Erieye = 450 km.
phalcon radar range:

1. "Over land... ranges of 400 km are possible with tactical routing" according to Article #1347, The Value of the Phalcon AWACS for India, by IPCS (an Indian think-tank).

2. "... up to 400 km" according to:
- India & Israel Talk On Three New Phalcon Aircrafts - India Plans to Buy 3 New Phalcon AWACS Aircraft from Israel
- India Today,
- https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htecm/20070426.aspx

3. 400 km according to:
- The Hindu : National : First Phalcon radar system to arrive in May,
- Indian Air Force to get Israeli Phalcon radar in May - People's Daily Online

Looks to me like Saab 2000 Erieye has a similar radar range as the phalcon, if not better. Which other performance differences are you talking about?

 

[mughaljee]

No we are getting KJ2000

Which one is much advanced , KJ2000 , or KJ200,
and which one we are getting.

 

[sancho]

Maximum radar range stated for Erieye = 450 km.
phalcon radar range:

1. "Over land... ranges of 400 km are possible with tactical routing" according to Article #1347, The Value of the Phalcon AWACS for India, by IPCS (an Indian think-tank)...

...Looks to me like Saab 2000 Erieye has a similar radar range as the phalcon, if not better. Which other performance differences are you talking about?

Be fair mate!
This is what your source number 1. really said:

“Over the Horizon Radar” accrue to the Phalcon AWACS, by operating at about 30,000 feet and thus being able to monitor low level activity in the air space up to ranges of 500 km. On India’s western borders, such surveillance over sea will yield optimum results in reporting both air and sea activity. Over land, advantages of detection ranges may have to be marginally forsaken to protect the AWACS aircraft against SAMS but ranges of 400 km are possible with tactical routing

So the Phalcon has a range of 500 Km for low flying air targets, operated over the sea where it don't have to face SAMS. Over land it could be operated different to avoid such threats, then the range will be limited to 400Km.

However the more important point is, if you compare both aircrafts you have to keep attention to find sources that talks not only about ranges, but also about what kind of target! The Erieye for example is reported to have an instrumental detection range of 450Km, but the Saab brochure shows that it detects fighters in less than 400Km range, ships in less than 300Km and cruise missiles in less than 200Km. Those 450Km range might be for bigger aircrafts like transporters, or tankers.
So if 500Km is the max range of Phalcon, 400Km should be the range where it detects fighters!

I think both systems are comparable in their capabilities, but the main advantage for the Phalcon comes with the IL 76 plattform. It offers more space for more crew, equipment, bigger powerplants for the radar, in flight refueling, full 360° coverage, can carry more payload, more internal fuel, is faster, has more range and can fly higher.

IL-76MF Operational Strategic Military Transport Airplane

http://products.saabgroup.com/PDBWebNew/GetFile.aspx?PathType=ProductFiles&FileType=Files&Id=8081

Most of these advantages are the same for KJ 2000 compared to Saab 2000 Erieye, so the plattform does make a difference.

 

[lmjiao]

Which one is much advanced , KJ2000 , or KJ200,
and which one we are getting.

KJ-2000 is much more advanced since it's also a air force command centre while KJ-200 is not. When in a war KJ-200 will follow the orders from KJ-2000.

Since Pakistan has also taken part in the development of KJ-200, she would get what she really needs.

It is also possible that Pakistan will product KJ-200 herself and sell it to other Muslim countries.

 

[mughaljee]

KJ-2000 is much more advanced since it's also a air force command centre while KJ-200 is not. When in a war KJ-200 will follow the orders from KJ-2000.

Since Pakistan has also taken part in the development of KJ-200, she would get what she really needs.

It is also possible that Pakistan will product KJ-200 herself and sell it to other Muslim countries.

lmjiao
Always to from

 

[hj786]

Be fair mate!

You first mate! The source says ranges of 400 km are possible "over land" and the other 4 sources (some of them Indian) concur with this, although they don't mention "over land". None of the sources on the phalcon say anything about what kind of target their figures are against and why should I accept your guess that "400Km should be the range where phalcon detects fighters"?
Sure the platform makes a difference, but that doesn't mean the Saab 2000 Erieye isn't good enough and needs replacing with something bigger and better.

 

[pakpower]

In my own opinion I really like to see KJ 2000 in PAF colours as it's a much better plartform as compare to KJ 200. No matter paf taken part in it's development or not paf should get both of them as they will be more beneficial specially against Indian Phalcons.

 

[SBD-3]

In my own opinion I really like to see KJ 2000 in PAF colours as it's a much better plartform as compare to KJ 200. No matter paf taken part in it's development or not paf should get both of them as they will be more beneficial specially against Indian Phalcons.

I don't know why do people get frustrated......we already going to have saab 2000 and KJ-200. These are enough.....We should acknowledge the fact that PLAAF has different requirements than PAF KJ-2000 would suit them, not necessarily us......we are good with these two.....Phalcon is an AWACS not a Raptor.....I still feel irritated for people who seem to loose faith in these two system....let me tell you one thing.....they meet our requirements.....so they are great

 

[mughaljee]

....let me tell you one thing.....they meet our requirements.....so they are great

By today, I will not as any question in this forum.