Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Pakistani Fighter]

typically 199 to 217 miles

Range looks less. 320km. How much farther it ill be able to detect Rafale that would be the question

 

[Blacklight]

Range looks less. 320km. How much farther it ill be able to detect Rafale that would be the question

The OP I quoted is from 2008. I quoted it not because of the range, but the antenna coverage.

The range in that OP does not even hold true for Legacy systems.

 

[airomerix]

can we first go back to my original post #5732 and see what I wrote before this comparison between Erieye and ZDK-03 started ? who compared Erieye to ZDK-03, not me

Apologies. I tried making sense of where the conversation was headed. Hence I followed.

I clearly mentioned we should go for additional KJ-500 AWACS, then due to the ignorance of subsequent members including some seniors who simply didnt know what KJ-500 was or even heard of the KJ500 AWACS to make it simple for their own understanding they started comparison between Erieye vs ZDK-03 to avoid getting into a panic

so to clear what is the KJ-500 its NOT ZDK-03 its new generation of Chinese AWACSs based on the newer Y-9 platform not the Y-8 category III platform, even the platforms are different now are talking about a completely different AWACS

The KJ-500 is the result of the 38th institute and is a ASEA radar with full true 360 degree coverage, its Chinas first mass produced AWACS and is operational now with the Chinese Air Force and the Navy with probably between 20-30 units operational which is a very high number for AWACS production and production is in full swing right

there are some fair points which should be answered-

yes Erieye is using longitude radar for North South operations as such it could be better suited to geography and terrain of Northern Areas, but also KJ-500 was deployed to Tibet close to Doklam stand off in 2017 which means this AWACS can work in mountainous terrain also, there is satellite images for it

yes also Erieye can do sea surveillance and reconnaissance missions but so KJ-500 since it was also deployed to Fiery Cross Artificial reef in the Spratly islands in South China sea in 2018 there is satellite images for it also

yes Erieye has range but also new variant the KJ-500A has been spotted with IFR probe in 2018 also making it long endurance AWACS, working also with our Midas tankers

There is a fundamental problem with your entire narrative.

The only credible information you have about KJ-500 is the following;

1) Chinese are using it.
2) It is based on Y-9
3) It comes with IFR probe.
4) It covers 360 degrees.

Otherwise, there is absolutely no information on the actual capability of the aircraft (or even close) and I can see why. It is fairly new, which also means untested and hence unreliable for an Air Force like Pakistan that cannot afford risky investments. This is exactly one of the reasons why Pakistan went with Erieye due to variety reasons which did include SAAB's experience with quality defense products.

Hence this huge hue and cry about KJ-500 is nothing but a fanboy attitude you earlier spoke of.

and finally with JF17 Block III ASEA and KJ-500 AESA it would be a game in terms of situational awareness both systems would work in synergy, as a matter of fact all F16+Erieye roles would be replaced with JF17 Block III + KJ-500 AWACS

I'm afraid it doesn't work this way. SAAB 2000 fully supports JF-17 and your proposal is nothing but a costly nightmare. JF-17s are/will be based at Kamra, Peshawar, Sargodha, Shorkot (soon), and Mianwali (soon), Quetta and Masroor.

You are proposing a mix of SAAB 2000s and KJ-500's on bases to support different aircraft? How will training look like if we restrict SAAB's to F-16s and thunders to JF-17s? What happens when JF-17s and F-16s fly in formation? Who controls what? How will our mission controllers bring out their best training and fully understand who needs to 'look' where and 'shoot' where? What will IAF deduce when they see a KJ-500 flying alongside borders? That only JF-17s will be scrambling?

What you're proposing also doesn't make sense because;

1) Kills fleet commonality further (Y-8, Y-9, SAAB 2000)
2) Does not bring any capability breakthrough over Erieye.
3) Renders ZDK-03's redundant. Unless, ZDK-03's can be upgraded to the newer radar, it's a different story altogether and it might as well become a reality.

 

[aziqbal]

Otherwise, there is absolutely no information on the actual capability of the aircraft (or even close) and I can see why. It is fairly new, which also means untested and hence unreliable for an Air Force like Pakistan that cannot afford risky investments. This is exactly one of the reasons why Pakistan went with Erieye due to variety reasons which did include SAAB's experience with quality defense products.



1) Kills fleet commonality further (Y-8, Y-9, SAAB 2000)
2) Does not bring any capability breakthrough over Erieye.
3) Renders ZDK-03's redundant. Unless, ZDK-03's can be upgraded to the newer radar, it's a different story altogether and it might as well become a reality.

I did not call you a fanboy as your question was genuine question worthy of reply

first part I cannot reply since its not question about capability

remember the time PAF wanted Western ASEA on Block III they waited for Chinese since it brings same if not better capability than its Western counterparts with less strings, Chinese AESA is a very advanced platform

1- ZDK-03 and KJ-500 are not too dis-similar, yes dissimilar enough to be in a completely different category but last year one of our ZDK-03 was in China indicating that improved variant using the AESA KLC-7 was being developed by the 14th institute, this would mean we get 4 x rotating AESA with ZDK-03 + 4 x rotating AESA with KJ-500, now where is the commonality question

this also answers question 3 and reinforces that additional KJ-500 would be a great addition to JF17 Block III

 

[Neptune]

Havasoj is i think turkish project, how you think Pakistan going to accure it, no news or interest show by Pakistan and i think its still in its testing phase, i think you may have some lead if you r saying so


Is 3 D20 are enough for now ?

+ @Akh1112

There's a confusion here.

Hava-SOJ is not an early warning and command aircraft. It is an airborne stand-off jammer aircraft tasked to handle long-range electronic attack and electronic support duties. First aircraft will be delivered in 2022 or 2023.

Hava-SOJ:

For airborne early warning and command functions, Turkish Air Force uses the E-7T Peace Eagle, a Boeing 737 AEW&C aircraft fitted with a MESA radar. Surprisingly it is in use by four countries only: Turkey, UK, Australia and South Korea. Turkish Air Force has 4 planes in the inventory and after the F-16s and UCAVs, its the most actively used aircraft in combatant missions due to air campaigns in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Mediterranean.

E-7T:

E-7 AEW&C comparison with E-3 AWACS.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I did not call you a fanboy as your question was genuine question worthy of reply

first part I cannot reply since its not question about capability

remember the time PAF wanted Western ASEA on Block III they waited for Chinese since it brings same if not better capability than its Western counterparts with less strings, Chinese AESA is a very advanced platform

1- ZDK-03 and KJ-500 are not too dis-similar, yes dissimilar enough to be in a completely different category but last year one of our ZDK-03 was in China indicating that improved variant using the AESA KLC-7 was being developed by the 14th institute, this would mean we get 4 x rotating AESA with ZDK-03 + 4 x rotating AESA with KJ-500, now where is the commonality question

this also answers question 3 and reinforces that additional KJ-500 would be a great addition to JF17 Block III

Whats so special about KJ-500? Got any details you care to share about its radar?

 

[airomerix]

I did not call you a fanboy as your question was genuine question worthy of reply

I was merely referring to your posts in the previous pages where you discarded opinions of other members with the pretext that they lack the understanding and hence they were fanboys. I know you did not call me that. You can if you'd like. I will not take offense.

remember the time PAF wanted Western ASEA on Block III they waited for Chinese since it brings same if not better capability than its Western counterparts with less strings, Chinese AESA is a very advanced platform

I'm afraid this was not the case. We opted for Chinese because we had no other options in the stipulated budget. We had a good deal with French but it was pre-MRCA. Else we'd have a JF-17 Block 3 with Meteor.

Chinese AESA's are excellent no doubt. It's just a matter of what was made available to us.

1- ZDK-03 and KJ-500 are not too dis-similar, yes dissimilar enough to be in a completely different category but last year one of our ZDK-03 was in China indicating that improved variant using the AESA KLC-7 was being developed by the 14th institute, this would mean we get 4 x rotating AESA with ZDK-03 + 4 x rotating AESA with KJ-500, now where is the commonality question

No. The radome of KJ-500 doesn't rotate.

Which is actually a good thing because the lesser the mechanical function, the better (from wear and tear perspective)

However, you misunderstood the angle I was trying to show. By commonality, I did not mean 'rotating' radome or 'fixed' radome. I meant the induction and operations of Y-9 aircraft alongside Y-8 and SAAB 2000. The debate of the logistical effort of integrating a new radar system is a separate one. The induction of an aircraft is altogether a different thing.

this also answers question 3 and reinforces that additional KJ-500 would be a great addition to JF17 Block III

No it does not.

Whats so special about KJ-500? Got any details you care to share about its radar?

Even I'm curious. I'd like to know please.

 

[aziqbal]

Ok so let’s conclude this matter

Erieye over ZDK-03 is fine
Erieye over KJ-500 no

why? Well I don’t need go into specifications I will leave it to your own judgement

Not to mention KJ-500 has upgraded scope, commonality with future Chinese equipment like JY-27A Radar, Type 054AP, UAV, C41SR ands UCAVS there is a much bigger picture here more than just specifications

 

[GriffinsRule]

Not to mention KJ-500 has upgraded scope, commonality with future Chinese equipment like JY-27A Radar, Type 054AP, UAV, C41SR ands UCAVS there is a much bigger picture here more than just specifications

Don't all of these apply to ZDK/K-3E as well?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Not to mention KJ-500 has upgraded scope, commonality with future Chinese equipment like JY-27A Radar, Type 054AP, UAV, C41SR ands UCAVS there is a much bigger picture here more than just specifications

As @airomerix said JFT can be guided by our EriEye through INDIGENOUS Link-17 so why we need another Chinese AESA equipped AWACS specifically for Block-3???

 

[Ultima Thule]

it was not personal nor degrading it was a simple statement based on facts

and you need to stop stalking me and get over what happened I dont have time for your tit for tat nudging

No why we will use KJ-500 if we have the capability to guide block-3, it will be extra burden on PAF, unless we will improve ZDK-3 with KJ-500 avionics and AESA its is the most cost effective way to increase our AESA equipped AWACS arsenal

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ladies and gentlemen.

Let me reiterate, please do not engage in personal attacks.

Stick to the topic. If someone makes a claim, you can politely ask them to justify it with publicly available sources, and if that is not possible, please move on. Similarly, if someone does not want to accept your claims, remain polite and move on.

Time will tell who’s correct.

Thank you

 

[Akh1112]

+ @Akh1112

There's a confusion here.

Hava-SOJ is not an early warning and command aircraft. It is an airborne stand-off jammer aircraft tasked to handle long-range electronic attack and electronic support duties. First aircraft will be delivered in 2022 or 2023.

Hava-SOJ:

For airborne early warning and command functions, Turkish Air Force uses the E-7T Peace Eagle, a Boeing 737 AEW&C aircraft fitted with a MESA radar. Surprisingly it is in use by four countries only: Turkey, UK, Australia and South Korea. Turkish Air Force has 4 planes in the inventory and after the F-16s and UCAVs, its the most actively used aircraft in combatant missions due to air campaigns in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Mediterranean.

E-7T:

E-7 AEW&C comparison with E-3 AWACS.

Nope, no confusion, we got sidetracked and were discussing EW assets. Apologies

 

[Trailer23]

The Test Pilot for the Royal Australian Air Force for the E-7 (Wedgetail) is (now) a Captain in our Airline. Flown with him a number of times. He loves the E-7.

 

[Neptune]

The Test Pilot for the Royal Australian Air Force for the E-7 (Wedgetail) is (now) a Captain in our Airline. Flown with him a number of times. He loves the E-7.

I think its a beautiful aircraft not only by looks but by its capabilities as well. After 2035, NATO plans to replace its E-3 Sentry AWACS fleet with E-7s too. Turkish government once was thinking of getting the "two more optional" aircraft orders in 2016. I wonder what happened to it. But for our country I think four is more than enough, including maritime surveillance missions too.

Nope, no confusion, we got sidetracked and were discussing EW assets. Apologies

Ops, sorry then my bad.