Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[syed_yusuf]

to a simple math a singe quality AWACS can cover 120K sq miles. that mean PAF need 3 in the air to cover Pakistan land mass and 1 on the sea to cover sea area. that mean paf needs 12 to maintain 24 coverage assuming each flight is for 10 hours and some maintenance i between. so having 10 or 11 sounds like PAF wanted to have 24 x 7 coverage in time of need over its responsibility areas.

I hope and wish that these new 3 are global eye instead of erieye.

 

[Dazzler]

Flight Global has disclosed that Pakistan is the undisclosed customer cited by Saab in a press release on May 15 for a airborne early warning & control contract.

The country will be getting three more Saab 2000 turboprops equipped with Erieye radars in the $155 million deal.

http://alert5.com/2017/06/02/pakistan-getting-three-more-saab-2000-aew-aircraft/

 

[Tank131]

If im not mistaken, PAF had bought 3 Saab 2000 last year or the year before and we thought it was for spares and other uses... Guess it was for more awe&cs. It will bring tue total number of AEW&Cs to 10-11? Thats an aweful lot for a country the size of Pakistan... Only US, China and Russia operate more AEW&Cs. My suspicion is that the ZDK-3 will be given to the navy (as they can talk to JF-17 and Mirages but the Erieye will be kept for the Airforce as they speak to all the fighters on Link 16 and Link 17. From what i understand the ZDK still doesn't talk to the F-16s.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If im not mistaken, PAF had bought 3 Saab 2000 last year or the year before and we thought it was for spares and other uses... Guess it was for more awe&cs. It will bring tue total number of AEW&Cs to 10-11? Thats an aweful lot for a country the size of Pakistan... Only US, China and Russia operate more AEW&Cs. My suspicion is that the ZDK-3 will be given to the navy (as they can talk to JF-17 and Mirages but the Erieye will be kept for the Airforce as they speak to all the fighters on Link 16 and Link 17. From what i understand the ZDK still doesn't talk to the F-16s.

The PAF bought one Saab 2000 in 2016.

It's on this thread, but I had stated that this new Erieye purchase might be in line with the original AEW&C plan. In the mid-2000s the PAF sought 6 Erieye while the PN wanted 3 P-3B-based Hawkeye 2000s. That was 9 planes. It is possible that they're simply working towards the original plan now, albeit on the Erieye front.

I doubt the ZDK03 will be given to the Navy. Rather, I think the ZDK03 - while still under the PAF - will work very closely with the PN. However, I also believe there'll be an Erieye presence along the maritime sphere since Southern Air Command has the F-16 Block-52+ (and the PN's P-3Cs probably communicate via Link-16 too).

 

[Readerdefence]

If im not mistaken, PAF had bought 3 Saab 2000 last year or the year before and we thought it was for spares and other uses... Guess it was for more awe&cs. It will bring tue total number of AEW&Cs to 10-11? Thats an aweful lot for a country the size of Pakistan... Only US, China and Russia operate more AEW&Cs. My suspicion is that the ZDK-3 will be given to the navy (as they can talk to JF-17 and Mirages but the Erieye will be kept for the Airforce as they speak to all the fighters on Link 16 and Link 17. From what i understand the ZDK still doesn't talk to the F-16s.

Isn't it we already have enough Saab for f16 and enough zdk for navy ?
Or paf want to airborne for 24 hours may be quite a lot for a country like Pakistan
Thx for some more input and perhaps detailed one

 

[khanasifm]

Ok paf is not buying Saab awacs just to keep f16 aware of its surrounding does not make sense one way or the other Saab can or is linked with everything ships or aircraft ground etc

 

[grey boy 2]

ZDK-3

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Cool Development.Addition of more AWACS will definitely enhance our capabilities in defending Air space.

 

[DJ_Viper]

If im not mistaken, PAF had bought 3 Saab 2000 last year or the year before and we thought it was for spares and other uses... Guess it was for more awe&cs. It will bring tue total number of AEW&Cs to 10-11? Thats an aweful lot for a country the size of Pakistan... Only US, China and Russia operate more AEW&Cs. My suspicion is that the ZDK-3 will be given to the navy (as they can talk to JF-17 and Mirages but the Erieye will be kept for the Airforce as they speak to all the fighters on Link 16 and Link 17. From what i understand the ZDK still doesn't talk to the F-16s.

Actually 10-11 isn't that big of a number for a country like Pakistan. These doctrines and purchases depend on the threat perception. You have a massive air-force to counter and protect your country from. So you do need proactive measures. The thought process behind the PAF leadership is that with growing Israeli influence inside the Indian military, and the Israelis having used pretty much all American systems (TPS radars), what if they can jam them? So the numbers of AEW aircraft are increasing to hedge against that. In an event like that, the entire war will have to depend on the AEWC platforms so it'll be fought from the air. Its very difficult to jam an AESA radar, especially a moving one that every few seconds can change the direction of its beams altogether and is mounted on a fast flying platform.

Next, to provide 24*7 coverage, Pakistan needs 3 AEW aircraft (to cover the land mass). So 10 hour duration plus future refueling, you'd need 6 to patrol 24*7. Its safe to assume that two are additional for maintenance support and attrition loss during a conflict (projected loss to ensure 24*7 coverage).

Then, you'll have the ZDK for naval role, with some overlapping area between ZDK's and the Erieye's around the port cities / end of land-mass. Which would still be enough for the Erieyes to get data from P3C's and other Western platforms and route them a 100 mile or so for ocean based operation from Erieye's LOP (last operational point or boundary, which would be the end of Karachi). This way, the Erieye's range being 350-400 KM still directs the P3C's and F-16's vector towards potential adversaries. The ZDK's can be used for maritime surveillance (PN ships, tracking IN ships and jets from a huge distance), as well as providing an expanded coverage platform to look deep inside India, both from around the physical borders, as well as from the Ocean front, leading the Mirages and the JFT's naval support squadrons.

It seems as this is the game plan and which is why more ZDK's weren't ordered as they would be maintaining a rather smaller ocean based area 300KM from the coastline of Pakistan. 1 ZDK covers it, you have three, 1 for backup / maintenance coverage and the third for attrition if any takes place.

 

[volatile]

IMO we will be ordering more ZDK as well in coming years since the performance per price is very good

 

[DJ_Viper]

IMO we will be ordering more ZDK as well in coming years since the performance per price is very good

I am saying this again and again, this is a great opportunity for Pakistan. You shouldn't buy more, you should get more with TOT / limited TOT and assemble them internally. That way, you are building a labor base to expand into AESA R&D and advance Radar manufacturing yourself. Saving billions in the future and building your own industry for these advance high priced items. Just like you did with the JFT.

 

[khanasifm]

Actually 10-11 isn't that big of a number for a country like Pakistan. These doctrines and purchases depend on the threat perception. You have a massive air-force to counter and protect your country from. So you do need proactive measures. The thought process behind the PAF leadership is that with growing Israeli influence inside the Indian military, and the Israelis having used pretty much all American systems (TPS radars), what if they can jam them? So the numbers of AEW aircraft are increasing to hedge against that. In an event like that, the entire war will have to depend on the AEWC platforms so it'll be fought from the air. Its very difficult to jam an AESA radar, especially a moving one that every few seconds can change the direction of its beams altogether and is mounted on a fast flying platform.

Next, to provide 24*7 coverage, Pakistan needs 3 AEW aircraft (to cover the land mass). So 10 hour duration plus future refueling, you'd need 6 to patrol 24*7. Its safe to assume that two are additional for maintenance support and attrition loss during a conflict (projected loss to ensure 24*7 coverage).

Then, you'll have the ZDK for naval role, with some overlapping area between ZDK's and the Erieye's around the port cities / end of land-mass. Which would still be enough for the Erieyes to get data from P3C's and other Western platforms and route them a 100 mile or so for ocean based operation from Erieye's LOP (last operational point or boundary, which would be the end of Karachi). This way, the Erieye's range being 350-400 KM still directs the P3C's and F-16's vector towards potential adversaries. The ZDK's can be used for maritime surveillance (PN ships, tracking IN ships and jets from a huge distance), as well as providing an expanded coverage platform to look deep inside India, both from around the physical borders, as well as from the Ocean front, leading the Mirages and the JFT's naval support squadrons.

It seems as this is the game plan and which is why more ZDK's weren't ordered as they would be maintaining a rather smaller ocean based area 300KM from the coastline of Pakistan. 1 ZDK covers it, you have three, 1 for backup / maintenance coverage and the third for attrition if any takes place.

There is a picture of Saab from IDEAS 201x which shows the coverage it's cover pretty much whole south plus sea

Assuming k3 same range than one Ac at a station cover whole Sindh plus Baluchistan only pointy part of Baluchistan is not Int he circle plus about 100 200 miles inside Easter border

 

[volatile]

I am saying this again and again, this is a great opportunity for Pakistan. You shouldn't buy more, you should get more with TOT / limited TOT and assemble them internally. That way, you are building a labor base to expand into AESA R&D and advance Radar manufacturing yourself. Saving billions in the future and building your own industry for these advance high priced items. Just like you did with the JFT.

You are correct we do have talent but industrial base is very weak ,for talent
Local university develops Pakistan's first Phased Array Radar
https://www.dawn.com/news/1323372

For industrial base to be developed the private partnership is necessary as some right steps are taken in shape of

http://quwa.org/2016/11/13/pakistan-aeronautical-complex-open-to-private-sector-engagement/

For interim period we were denied critical technologies in the past and we need these birds as quickly to fill the gap of quality .

 

[DJ_Viper]

You are correct we do have talent but industrial base is very weak ,for talent
Local university develops Pakistan's first Phased Array Radar
https://www.dawn.com/news/1323372

For industrial base to be developed the private partnership is necessary as some right steps are taken in shape of

http://quwa.org/2016/11/13/pakistan-aeronautical-complex-open-to-private-sector-engagement/

For interim period we were denied critical technologies in the past and we need these birds as quickly to fill the gap of quality .

Education, training and exposure to serious, advance tech is the most critical thing. As you embark on this journey, the infrastructure can be built. It'd take 2-3 years to setup proper base. But it's not impossible at all as the educated labor is the main issue. You have lots of that. The JFT program has proved a scenario not too different from the topic to become fruitful.

There is a picture of Saab from IDEAS 201x which shows the coverage it's cover pretty much whole south plus sea

Assuming k3 same range than one Ac at a station cover whole Sindh plus Baluchistan only pointy part of Baluchistan is not Int he circle plus about 100 200 miles inside Easter border

Yes, you got the idea I was trying to explain

 

[nomi007]