Pakistanis racial background

[SrNair]

Please explain this part because its not true.

Dravidian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

enough?

 

[al-Hasani]

@ghoul

I just mentioned the ME connection because I once watched a documentary that a Pakistani member on PDF posted here regarding the cultural/trade etc. ties of the IVC and civilizations of Southern Mesopotamia and the Dilmun civilization of Eastern Arabia (modern-day Bahrain and KSA).

Back then the geography was slightly different and the Gulf looked differently. Geographically speaking Southern Pakistan and Eastern Arabia/Southern Iraq are rather close and I noticed quite a few similarities.

So there must have been some substantial ties.

That man that you posted (sculpture) has similarities with those of the Sumerians and Dilmunites.

To me it seems undeniable that the Western part of South Asia had very ancient ties with the Arabian Peninsula and Mesopotamia since time immortal. Even if we look at ancient human migration routes.

Dilmun - Tilmun - Creation - Aliens - Middle East - Crystalinks

BBC News - Bahrain digs unveil one of oldest civilizations

I am actually quite sure that a lot of new information will emerge the day the Arabian Peninsula will be more explored in terms of archaeology. For now we are almost unknown land for archaeologists which they often complain about.

A leading American archaeologist that did work in KSA and found 10.000 year old materials (very advanced for the age) talks about this in this video regarding the "Crossroads of Arabia" exhibition in the US;

 

[Kabira]

Dravidian peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

enough?

I know Brahui are dravidians linguistically, but there is no special genetic link between them and south indians. They are same as Baloch genetically.

 

[mujhaidind]

There was a community in there before these IVC.
That is proto Elamite.You can google it.Brahui people and South Indians still carry that same genetic lineage.
IVC was a contribution of the people in subcontinent.

There needs to be more research on this subject.

There is too much diversity. Even South Indians don't look all the same.Some Keralites and Tulus are almost white. I feel Maharashtrians are the most diverse ethnic group maybe. Some are as fair as mediterinnean whites and others as dark as africans Even many high-caste marahstrians tend to be dark.

In North-India on other hand dark skin= lower caste automatically.

This subject is too complex.

But good thing is that caste system is not practised among Indian Muslims. It seems to be more popular among Pakistanis.

 

[ito]

I am a little bit curious about race of Pakistanis(I know there are different racial groups in Pakistan). From photos which I have seen online and other videos of Pakistani people.

I have observed lot of Pakistanis have hook nose which is very common among Arab people. I too have a hook nose. So I wonder whether many Pakistanis have Arab blood in them.

Another thing I feature I observed is that many Pakistanis have unibrows which is very common among central Asians.

Pakistani members please provide you insights


This thread is not racial superiority or thing like that. I am just curious.

many pakistanis are arabs...some are central asians and some are persians and few even are whites

what kind of question is this???...they are south asians

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Part 2
A Possible Historical Scenario
About 3,000 BC, a saintly Indian prince and high priest of the Kheeveri empire left Afghanistan for Arizona, to manage the mining operations at Baboquivari and govern the O'Odhams. In India, he is variously called Shiva, Siva, Shaveh, Suva, Su, Ish, Esh, Yesh, Isa, Itsa, Ishvara, Yishvara, Yeshva, Moshe, Mahesh, Mahisa, etc. The suffixes Va and Veh refer to someone who is vengeful and short of temper. Vara = "Blessings of." The prefixes Mo, Mu. and Mah means "Great." Ish, Esh, Yesh, Isa, etc., = "Material Universe" in both Sanskrit and Hebrew cabalism. From these Sanskrit elements we derived our term "Messiah," which in Sanskrit is Masiha, and Massee'akh in Hebrew. These terms were honorific titles of the highest ecclesiastical and leadership castes of that period in history. These supreme "Sivas," whether good, bad, or indifferent, were also regarded as earthly gods.

We may never know what this "Shiva's" real name was. The Pimas call him Se-eh-ha; Siwa; Su-u (Elder Brother). The Papagos worship him as I'Itoi or I'Itsoi, which linguistically is nearly identical to "Isa."

Not yet united by a centralized government, the ancient Hindus weren't conscious of themselves as Indians - just as similar peoples separated by different tribes and kingdoms. All of them competed by fair and foul means for the resources of the world. Internecine rivalries tore them apart constantly.

During Shiva's Arizona reign, a powerful Indian emperor, Priyavarta, sent his armies to all the countries of the world, to unite all Indians and their colonial possessions as one nation. He appointed his sons as viceroys. One son, Sevana or Sewana, was sent to conquer and govern North America. Notice that he, too, was a "Siva." O'odham legends mention this Sewana whom they call Siwana. When I'Itoi or Se-eh-ha wouldn't submit to Priyavarta, he and Siwana met on the battle field. Ultimately, I'Itoi prevailed; Siwana was killed.

According to some Indian historians, later on, back in Southeast Asia, the volcano Krakatoa exploded violently, creating the China Sea. Our globe became extremely unsteady on its axis, causing rains, earthquakes, and floods to occur all over the world. The coastlands of Western India submerged by more than fifty feet and as many miles inland in some places. Even as you read this article, Indian archeologists are uncovering fabulous ruins lying just off the mainland, under the Arabian sea.

Dwarka, Indian deity Lord Krishna's capital city, is the focal point of these underwater digs. Dwarka may prove to be the greatest archeological dig in human history.

These floods forced millions of Indian refugees to flee to other parts of the world. When the Arizona desert flooded, the Pimas and Papagos took refuge on Baboquivari where I'Itoi or Se-eh-ha (Siva) helped them survive. After the waters had subsided, he helped the O'Odham re-establish themselves. Therefore, no matter to what religion they are converted, the O'Odham are always going to revere and respect I'Itoi.



Nearly all of today's O'Odham are Catholics. However, the Franciscan fathers tending to their spiritual needs allow them to set up the Swastika, I'Itoi or Isa's standard, on the altars of the Catholic churches there, even on the altar of San Xavier Mission church near Tucson.
There are other Shaivite reminders among the O'odhams. O'Odham Catholic churches usually face east as the Shaivite temples do in India. And, like the Hindus, they bury their dead in an east-west direction. They also revere the Shiva-Linga or Pillar of Energy, usually erected in front of and some distance away from their churches, placed on a tiered pyramid or pyramidical mound, exactly as in India. However, nowadays the Shivling is a Christian cross. In the book he wrote in 1644, Father Ribas acknowledged that the Northern Mexican Indians worshiped Shivlings.

"One of the padres, traveling along a trail near Guasave, observed an Indian suddenly depart into the woods. In curiosity they followed this Indian, presently coming upon him in the act of making reverence before a stone. This stone was about a vara (33 inches) in height, shaped in the form of a pyramid, and had some crude inscriptions carved upon it.

San Xavier Mission Church near Tuscon, Arizona.
"The Padre ordered this false idol destroyed. The Indian, horrified at the thought, declared that he dare not destroy it, for fear of death." (My Life Among the Savage Nations of New Spain; p. 34.)

During my visit at San Xavier mission, I also saw representations of the undulating serpent Nah-Big on the exterior of the church of San Xavier. And get this: The O'Odhams call their way of life Himday or Himdag! Hindi?
I was especially intrigued by the Pima name for "Medicine-Man:" Javet-Makai. Dyaus-Pitar or Jyapeti (Japhet) is really another title of Shiva. Makai may be derived from Maga (Priest-Magician). Javet-Makai = Jyapeti Maga?

DNA analysis may prove that today's O'Odhams are genetically related to the India-Indians. Arjuna, Krishna's companion in the Mahabharata Wars (fought on Northern India's Kuruksetra plains in about 3000 BC), was married to a Patalan (American) princess. Military forces from Patala, possibly even some O'Odham among them, fought in those famous wars.

How did I'Itoi's deification get exported to India? Because Isvar was once the religion of all mankind, It could have been a partial contributor to all worldwide myths about Siva, eventually becoming consolidated in the Indian subcontinent. I'Itoi earned "godhood" on his own merits. Also, as a Hindu supreme leader, he was deified anyway. After all, the O'Odham and the Hindus do share the same India-originated "Way of Life."

Hindu immigrants to this country often tell me that they see the Southwestern Native-Americans as long-lost brothers. They say that many Native-Americans tell them the same thing. If we use Sanskrit language resources, Hindu mythology, Shaivite practices and mutually identical holy names as measuring sticks, the kinship between Native-Americans and South Asians becomes easily verifiable, no matter what the "experts" say. Could there be a special political reason why "The Great White Father" doesn't want certain Native-Americans to know they're Himday?

Some tribes, such as the Huicholes in Central Mexico, even remember from what Indian seaport they left for America - Aramra in Gujarat. The Huicholes revere a part of the beach at the old Mexican seaport of San Blas, Nayarit, as Aramara, "Place of Origin of the Huicholes." Millenniums ago, Gujarat was called Jukhar. Juj-Kha is an O'Odham name for "Mexicans." The Navajos call them Nakaii (Nagas). The Apaches claim to be Inde (Indus People.) They worship Shiva as Yusn. In Sanskrit, Yishan = "Shiva." Apache = "Enemy" in O'Odham. In Sanskrit, Apachnan = "Destroyer." Another name of the Zunis ("Zoonyees") is Ashiwi (Azhuva?, "Way of the Serpent," in Sanskrit). Two of their principal deities are Shivani and Shiwanikoya. Zoonya (Zuni?) and Zeenya ware epithets of ancient Kashmir. According to Indian historian K. P. Chon, the Naga Azhuvas, perhaps the forefathers of the Zunis, were India's oldest ruling dynasty. He said that they ruled for more than a thousand years.

"The descendants of this dynasty are still to be found in the southernmost part of India in Kerala. They are even now called Azhuva or Ezhava. The emperor Azi Dahaka, -- with two snakes around his neck -- was a devotee of Isvara."
(Remedy the Frauds in Hinduism; p. 22.)

The Ezhavas' ships were said to have sailed all over the world.

The Hopis worship Siva under several of his names, one of which is Massawa (Maheswa?). The Hopis are ophiolators (snake worshippers). Thousands of years ago, a famous Naga cult called Hophiz lived near Kabul, Afghanistan. Orginally, this nation was named Oph (Serpent) + Gana (Group; Family) + Stan (Nation). "Afghanistan" evolved from "Oph-gana-stan." The Afghan Hophiz snake cult spread to Greece, becoming Ophis. The Ophis cult was popular in the ancient world, even among the Christian gnostics. Needless to say, it also found its way to the American Southwest. We may never know the exact "hows."

The name of the ancient Hopi village of Oraibi causes me to wonder whether the Hopi nation was a famous stronghold of Saivism, known even in India. This unusual word lacks only the "Bh" in Bhairavi, epithet of Goddess Durga. However, Grierson's Dictionary of the Kashmiri Language mentions another meaning of the term, which may explain exactly how and why Oraibi got its name: "Name of a certain class of lower deities who form Siva's host..." One of these is after the local godling of some locality or tract of country. Special localities protected by him are looked upon as sacred" (p. 129; item 44.) Was Southwestern United States an important Shaivite holy center in earliest times?

Other ancient Naga sea-faring miners, traders, conquerors and colonizers who left their bloodlines and names all over the Americas and the rest of the world were the Ute, Yuti, Yutiya, or Juti (Jutes). The Northern Mexican Indians called the invading Spaniards, "People-Who-Came-Before:" Yutiya ("Judeeya"); Yuti; Juti ("Jodee" or "Judee)." In Spanish, the word is usually spelled as Yori; Yuri. "R" is trilled as in "City." "Y" often approximates our "J." Because of the Spanish spelling, we can't see that this word is really the English "Jute.". Why did these Indians believe the Spaniards were Jutes? Juti now means "non-Indian Mexicans and Gringos." In Sanskrit, Juddhi; Yuddhi = "Conquerors." Our history books tell us that the "Jutes" were "Northern German or Danish tribes."

 

[Kabira]

But like I said earlier Pakistani punjabi seem to have some middle-eastern influence(not all some). Indian punjabis look purely Indic. .

This is indeed the case west punjabi tribes including hindus and sikhs in general.

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Does it surprise you to find "People-Who-Came-Before"
in Southwestern United States and Northern Mexico?
Such human groups as "Phoenicians, Assyrians, Teutons, Jutes, Celts, Scythians, Chaldeans, Hittites, Kassites," plus many others, were not exactly who and what we've been told they were. The India-Indians can give mankind broader and more accurate descriptions of these principal actors on the stage of Ancient History. The Native-Americans are "Indians" after all!

Skeptics often tell me that I'm just using a fertile imagination to link the Southwestern Native-Americans with certain ethnicities and communities in South Asia. Just in case any of my readers think I'm imagining all these correspondences, put yourself in my place. Pretend that you've read a book about ancient Tibet. In this book, you read about a little mountain village called Dina. The villagers practice their national Tibetan religion: Bon. Their shamans use sand-paintings to heal the sick. After that, you read a book about the Navajos. Their real name is Diney. Their religion is Bahanney. Their shamans use sand paintings to heal the sick. Intrigued, you start comparing other Native-American tribes with peoples living in India, consistently finding tight similarities. What would you then think - or know? Of course, these India-related correspondences are not confined only to Native-Americans. But the rest of the world's peoples is not what this article is all about.


The spirit of I'Itoi, one of many Isas around the world, wanders within the bowels of Kheever or Quivari eternally, in a maze of tunnels running throughout the interior of Baboquivari. These tunnels may be shafts from which the ancient Hindus extracted unending quantities of gold, transporting it to India.

Like I'Itoi's swastika (on left), this maze (right) is also a sacred O'Odham emblem.
It, too, stands at the altar of San Xavier Mission.

About Coronado's Ill-Fated Expedition
During my fact-finding mission to the O'Odham nation in September, 1999, a young O'Odham man told me that at the beginning of the Spanish conquest, a certain Spanish officer and his men tried to dig their way into Baboquivari. Suddenly, the ground under them opened; Baboquivari swallowed them. I intuited that he was giving me a mythologized version of Francisco de Coronado's search for the Seven Cities of Cibola and a place called Quivira, where, he was told, he could get his hands on unlimited quantities of gold.

Francisco Vasquez de Coronado (1510-1554) was the first explorer of America's Southwest. He arrived in Mexico in 1535, becoming governor of Nueva Galicia (the present states of Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Zacatecas). During his governorship he heard about the supposedly gold-rich Seven Cities of Cibola and Quivira, believed to be in what is now the American Southwest, somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico.

With 300 Spanish soldiers and some Native-Americans, he marched to the present state of Arizona. The news about the Spaniards' obsession for gold surely reached the O'Odham nation long before he did. Esteban, also called El Turco, led the Spaniards away from Baboquivari, to what is now the Lindsborg, Kansas area. Coronado began to suspect that he had been tricked. Another Indian accompanying the expedition could have grown fearful that El Turco might be persuaded to lead the Spaniards back to Arizona. He begged Coronado to quit paying attention to El Turco, promising to lead the Spaniards farther northward, to the real "Quivira," but Coronado had lost his fascination with fairy tales. He had El Turco strangled to death, returning to Mexico in disgrace in 1542. It never occurred to Coronado to remove "Babo" from "Quivari

 

[SrNair]

I know Brahui are dravidians linguistically, but there is no special genetic link between them and south indians. They are same as Baloch genetically.

Then you cant claim that entire dravidians are australoid.
Look at the strange occurnce man.
Distant between SI and Brahui region is several hundred km.
So no one can refute a possibility of invading forces split up elamite communities between Brahui and SI.
And such a scenario contributes baloch lineage.
Dravidians are not a race .That is just a bunch of ethnic languages.Nothing else.

 

[SrNair]

There needs to be more research on this subject.

There is too much diversity. Even South Indians don't look all the same.Some Keralites and Tulus are almost white. I feel Maharashtrians are the most diverse ethnic group maybe. Some are as fair as mediterinnean whites and others as dark as africans Even many high-caste marahstrians tend to be dark.

In North-India on other hand dark skin= lower caste automatically.

This subject is too complex.

But good thing is that caste system is not practised among Indian Muslims. It seems to be more popular among Pakistanis.

That is also what I am saying Dravidians are peoples that use Dravidian languages .But races are too diversified and mixed.

 

[ito]

This is indeed the case west punjabi tribes including hindus and sikhs in general.

majority of pakistanis look like north indians. what this west punjabi tribes???

if language is any indication of ethnicity then this is ethnicity map of south asia

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Guys history is more than what we know . It's very old that no evidence can be found . Unless we search under the ocean we won't find any thing . Recently we found the Dwarka a well planned city under the ocean .. artifacts dates more than 12000/24000 BCE ... whole Westerner theory wrong once again . As we can see on the Angar Wat in combodia. It depicts the dinosaurs image with human holding its chain ... Which is believed to be extinct before lacs of years ..

 

[mujhaidind]

That is also what I am saying Dravidians are peoples that use Dravidian languages .But races are too diversified and mixed.

It might have to do something with fake history preached by some Indians and europeans.

 

[Kabira]

Then you cant claim that entire dravidians are australoid.
Look at the strange occurnce man.
Distant between SI and Brahui region is several hundred km.
So no one can refute a possibility of invading forces split up elamite communities between Brahui and SI.
And such a scenario contributes baloch lineage.
Dravidians are not a race .That is just a bunch of ethnic languages.Nothing else.

Austroloid are original Indians/Dravidians and they are indeed different then your average dravidian.

 

[Kabira]

majority of pakistanis look like north indians. what this west punjabi tribes???

if language is any indication of ethnicity then this is ethnicity map of south asia

View attachment 141511

Do you see any Pakistani group clustering with North Indians here?

Few Punjabi Indian tribes (khatris, jatts, rajputs) indeed cluster with Pakistani punjabis but they make 1.1% of Indian population.