Pakistani muslims aren't Arabs or turks (except Arain & Awan).

[Tps43]

Meray v tail dy khooo ty shareeka'n qbza kr Lia.

Tu arain he???

Malka ni cheer Malkiani ha!

Lab deyo malka rani mere aste

 

[Shah_G]

Sunnis expand the definition to include all of his family and wives, some of us even extend it to include all of Banu Hashim.

Banū Hashim are called Qureshi or Hashmi.

 

[Mentee]

Tu arain he???

 

[Tps43]

Bat na kar abb mujh se

 

[Pakistani E]

Awans are not arabs. They are indigenous people of Indus Valley, mixed with neolithic migrants from West Asia who arrived here few thousand years ago.

However, if you want to see genetically, they most closely cluster with Swatis and Tanolis, another group of indigenous people in KPK. Regardless, we are Pakistanis. And this is the only thing I identify as.

Durrani tribe - Descended from the Hepthalites

Turi tribe - Some sources claim they also come from Qutb Shah, they're also probably related to the Toor clan among Punjabis

Sur tribe - Related to the Ghurids

Kharoti tribe - Descended from the Ghaznavids

That's all the ones I know.

The Turis and the related jajs are both sub clans of Awans. They used to be the "hamsaya" of Bhangash, until the Bhangash disrespected some Turi woman, and the Turis and the Jajs/zazs joined forces and overthrew them. Their Pashtunisation is a recent thing.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Okay maybe it's just because I'm a Salafi.

No, you are right. Ahlul Bayt is more than just Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima AS, although they are definitely the most important lineage.

All the relatives of the Prophet Muhammad saws are Ahlul Bayt, meaning Banu Hashim.

This is the mainstream sunni view.

I am sunni hanfiyeh brother and never accepted this that's why I said earlier I am not from ahle bayet but Hazrat abbas alamdar descends.

Ma Sha Allah.

 

[Hamza913]

The Turis and the related jajs are both sub clans of Awans. They used to be the "hamsaya" of Bhangash, until the Bhangash disrespected some Turi woman, and the Turis and the Jajs/zazs joined forces and overthrew them. Their Pashtunisation is a recent thing.

You get Toors among Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars too. Apparently they're related.

 

[Pakistani E]

You get Toors among Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars too. Apparently they're related.

Not sure about that, could very well be.

But they are accepted by Awan genealogists as being related to Awans, claiming descent from Qutb Shah, but through a Turkic wife.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Arian are thought to be from Sindh originally and as far as Awan tribe goes, they are by and large native population(probably decedents of early West Asian farmers) that were once spread out all the way into modern day Hazara division of KPK, Peshawar and even Tribal Areas of Pakistan, looks like due to certain reasons maybe invasions and weather changes Awan tribes seem to have moved eastwards towards River Indus and established colonies right up to Sialkot.

According to a Pakistani historian Ahmed Hasan Dani Awans are indigenous to Northern Punjab, according to him Awans maybe the same people refereed to as Abanii by ancient Greek and Roman travelers.

 

[Hamza913]

Not sure about that, could very well be.

Funnily enough, the name Toor is sometimes used to refer to Pashtuns who descend from Mama, Miya, Tatur, Patkh and Hod (these are folklore figures).

But they are accepted by Awan genealogists as being related to Awans, claiming descent from Qutb Shah, but through a Turkic wife.

Yeah, I've heard about that. It's rather interesting though how Awans and Turis actually both claim the latter has Turkic ancestry, it's just that the Turis don't mention Qutb Shah at all.

 

[Pakistani E]

Funnily enough, the name Toor is sometimes used to refer to Pashtuns who descend from Mama, Miya, Tatur, Patkh and Hod (these are folklore figures).

That's really interesting. Didn't know about that.

Yeah, I've heard about that. It's rather interesting though how Awans and Turis actually both claim the latter has Turkic ancestry, it's just that the Turis don't mention Qutb Shah at all.

Some of their elders used to. It won't be the first time a local group has been assimilated in to Pashtun culture though. Regardless, I just follow this as a matter of curiosity. All Pakistanis are my brothers.

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

So when Ismael (peace be upon him) married into a people in the Becca, they were non Arabs?

There are two types of Arabs, (maybe three now).
The Old Arabs who originate from Yemen and travelled north. Then you have Arabs from Ismael and his marriages to Arab girl(s) (peace be upon him) do remember that Ismael and Abraham were not Arabs (it is reflected in the grammar of their names). These are sometime known as the assimilated Arabs as they are not the original, of course from this lineage came the most pre-eminent Arab tribe the Quraysh (by that time, his descendants married into Arabs and spoke their language and became Arabs as they also have blood links now).

And since then, you have cultural/lingustic arabs like many of Egypt, Syria and North Africa....who may not have any patrilineal descent to Ismael (peace be upon him).

So what I am trying to say is that Arabs existed before Ismael (Peace be upon him) and were distinct in lineage to Abraham (peace be upon him).Therefore it is possible to still be Arab (even by blood) and not have descent to Abraham (peace be upon him). Technically.

Youre right , there are few categories around 4 or 5 most prominent are 3.
1/ Arab Aribaa ( Qahtan ) lineage other than Prophet Ibrahim
2/ Arab Mustaribaa ( under Ismael ) Family Tree -> Prophet Mohammed ( peace be upon him) .
3/ Arab Baidaa ( Thamud people , from Prophet Salih ) Those who are extinct.

Hence we can say Arab Aribaa ( Qahtan ) are the Arabs who are not descent to Abraham ( p.b.u.h )
to name Few tribes from Qahtan ( Ghamid, Zahran, around 200+)

 

[El Sidd]

Mazel Tuv

Onioninites @Moonlight

 

[Moonlight]

Mazel Tuv

Onioninites @Moonlight

I LOVED IT. What is the process of getting the copyrights? I want this name.

 

[El Sidd]

I LOVED IT. What is the process of getting the copyrights? I want this name.

You get the whole tribe just don't start a march.

Process may include land adsorption of the Shah-Kharachs.