Pakistani muslims aren't Arabs or turks (except Arain & Awan).

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

So when Ismael (peace be upon him) married into a people in the Becca, they were non Arabs?

There are two types of Arabs, (maybe three now).
The Old Arabs who originate from Yemen and travelled north. Then you have Arabs from Ismael and his marriages to Arab girl(s) (peace be upon him) do remember that Ismael and Abraham were not Arabs (it is reflected in the grammar of their names). These are sometime known as the assimilated Arabs as they are not the original, of course from this lineage came the most pre-eminent Arab time the Quraysh (by that time, his descendants married into Arabs and spoke their language and became Arabs).

And since then, you have cultural/lingustic arabs like many of Egypt, Syria and North Africa....who may not have any patrilineal descent to Ismael (peace be upon him).

So what I am trying to say is that Arabs existed before Ismael (Peace be upon him) and were distinct in lineage to Abraham (peace be upon him).Therefore it is possible to still be Arab (even by blood) and not have descent to Abraham (peace be upon him). Technically.

Unfortunately not.

Arabs started at Ishmael, and Israel started at Jacob son of Isaac. Both sons of Abraham.

These Yemenite Arabs of Hadramaot are Arab clans (sub parts that make up the Arab Tribe) descending from Ishmael. The ancient Quraish (clan) trace their lineage back to Abraham, via Ishmael.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

DNA wont tell you where you are from, no. But it will tell you a lot about populations.

Basic example, every male has a XY and every female has XX.

• A male child gets one X from his mother, and the Y from his father.
• A female child get one X from his mother and one X from her father.

The mother has got one X from her mother, who would have got it from her mother and so on.
The father has got one Y from his father, who would have got it from his father and so on.

• the male received an X from his mother, and the Y from his father - but cannot pass on the X, only passing the Y on when he has a child
• the female received an X from her mother and an X from her father - but can only pass on the X she received from her mother, not the X she got from her father, when she has a child

In this way we can create male and female lineage chains. By testing DNA across people you can see who is related (ancestors) and who is not. It only becomes a tribal affair when someone claims they are from a certain tribe and so does another and they share the same ancestral genes.

Like if you had 1000 people who claim to have same great-great-great grandfather, you can prove or disprove it using DNA.

So every male on this forum has:
Y from his father, the same as his grandfather, and great grandfather and so on.
X from his mother, the same as his grandmother and great grandmother and so on.
His male children will have the same Y as him and the X from his mother.
His female children will have his X and the X from child's mother.

Every female on this forum has:
No Y.
X from her mother, the same as her grandmother, and great grandmother and so on.
X from her father, the same as her father's mother and father's grandmother.
Her male children will have the same X as her from her mothers side.
Her female children will have the same X as her and the same X as child's father.

let make it simple
So DNA of Pakistani Qureshi and Hashmi would be same as DNA of Hashmi and Qureshi tribes living in suadia Arabia?

 

[GumNaam]

how much Arbi follow this beautiful saying of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is evident from their treatment with south Asian ajmiizz lol

Brother, we shall follow it and they shall follow us. In shaa Allah...

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

let make it simple
So DNA of Pakistani Qureshi and Hashmi would be same as DNA of Hashmi and Qureshi tribes living in suadia Arabia?

If they had the same male ancestor at any given point they would have the same Y-DNA group, yes.

 

[ghazi52]

All are mix plate, nothing here to be proud of...............................

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Arab-BAKI hate Iran take money hate Assad take money

Pakistani-OKIE DOKIE MY GRANDPA WAS ARAB AND SHIETTT

It is not right to stereotype Arabs in this way brother. There are many of them who are not infected by Arab chauvinism.

Pakistanis are diverse racially, but we share a common raison d'être.

Arabs, Turks, Persians, Afghans have assimilated and melded into our cultural fabric over centuries to make us into a strong, varied, and unified nation which puts Islam first and foremost.

 

[Yankee-stani]

It is not right to stereotype Arabs in this way brother. There are many of them who are not infected by Arab chauvinism.

Pakistanis are diverse racially, but we share a common raison d'être.

Arabs, Turks, Persians, Afghans have assimilated and melded into our cultural fabric over centuries to make us into a strong, varied, and unified nation which puts Islam first and foremost.

Its not sterotypes but in general a lot of the Gulf Arabs think that way I think the best Arabs are the ones from the Levant and Maghreb

 

[TMA]

Right about everything, brother.

However, patrilineal descent is the only line of descent which we recognize as a society.

The proof is in the shajaratul nisab.

This if for identification purposes. This does not mean that you will look like you father or those forebears who held the same patrilineal name as you do. Neither does it mean you will have their temperament, neither does this mean you can neglect the remainder of the DNA flowing in your veins that is being etched into you very bone marrow.
A human is made (in the physical sense) from Male and Female (despite taking ONLY his father's name.)

An Arain can only claim he has some Arab blood on his paternal side. To claim he is Arab would be incorrect even in the blood sense, as his blood has been most likely "diluted" by over 1000 years of racial mixing with "natives". Indeed the only thing he really shares with Arabs (I am talking about blood Arabs) would be a relatively small percentage of his DNA and religion. His phenotype would be distinct given the racial mixing, his customs will be different, his food, his language etc etc....Indeed an Arain would closer to a non Arain Punjabized Butt than he would be to one of his Arab forebears.... in essence he is ethnically no longer Arab.... (of course there might be a few Arains who would be given the genetic history but I am taking overall)

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Its not sterotypes but in general a lot of the Gulf Arabs think that way I think the best Arabs are the ones from the Levant and Maghreb

It is their loss then, not ours.

We will continue to have hope for the world's Muslims, this is the real meaning of Pakistan, which is to unite all Muslims together.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

If they had the same male ancestor at any given point they would have the same Y-DNA group, yes.

No unless every future generation of Pakistani Hasmi or Qureshi have been married to arab male

but here they have been married to local to same race after intial mixing with arab while hasmi and Qureshi living in saudia have been married within their own race

 

[TMA]

Unfortunately not.

Arabs started at Ishmael, and Israel started at Jacob son of Isaac. Both sons of Abraham.

These Yemenite Arabs of Hadramaot are Arab clans (sub parts that make up the Arab Tribe) descending from Ishmael. The ancient Quraish (clan) trace their lineage back to Abraham, via Ishmael.

So I said the Old Arabs who originally came from Yemen...not all Yemenis are Old Arabs...I know may Yemenis are descended from Ismael (peace be upon him).

Ismael (peace be upon them) married into Arabs, therefore Arabs existed independently of Ismael and Abraham (peace be upon them). His descendants kept marrying to Arab peoples and ethnically became Arabs.
Ismael and Abraham (peace be upon them) were not Arabs and this is reflected in their names.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

An Arain can only claim he has some Arab blood on his paternal side. To claim he is Arab would be incorrect even in the blood sense, as his blood has been most likely "diluted" by over 1000 years of racial mixing with "natives".

Assuming Arabs started from male ancestor Y(1)
and assuming Aryans started from male ancestor Y(2)
and assuming Turks started from male ancestor Y(3)

Ten thousand years later, by passing Y from father to son, how would Y get diluted?

You cant have more than one Y i.e. you cant have two dads.

 

[Yankee-stani]

It is their loss then, not ours.

We will continue to have hope for the world's Muslims, this is the real meaning of Pakistan, which is to unite all Muslims together.

Pakistan has to first fix itself, peoples and government, otherwise we will be another irrelevent spec in the map once we will fix ourselves why the Muslim world is fapping so much to Turkey these days and her people despite they are overated as hell part of NATO or what not their people are nationalistic and are proud not just that they have society and economy that is well run compared to most Muslim states if Pakistan can get itself up to that standard we will be watched and admired by other Muslim states we were back in the 60s and early 70s yes but we failed and got entangled with stupid crap in domestic politics and frankly no leader cared only cared for apartments in UK and NYC now what do other Muslim states think of us heck even friends in Turkey pity us for what we became

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

So I said the Old Arabs who originally came from Yemen...not all Yemenis are Old Arabs...I know may Yemenis are descended from Ismael (peace be upon him).

Ismael (peace be upon them) married into Arabs, therefore Arabs existed independently of Ismael and Abraham (peace be upon them). His descendants kept marrying to Arab peoples and ethnically became Arabs.
Ismael and Abraham (peace be upon them) were not Arabs and this is reflected in their names.

There is no such thing as Arab before Ishmael.

Ishmael is "the progenitor of the Arabs"

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Assuming Arabs started from male ancestor Y(1)
and assuming Arabs started from male ancestor Y(2)

Ten thousand years later, by passing Y from father to son, how would Y get diluted?

You cant have more than one Y i.e. you cant have two dads.

we all came from adam so then we are all one race //universal race ..

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

No unless every future generation of Pakistani Hasmi or Qureshi have been married to arab male

but here they have been married to local to same race after intial mixing with arab while hasmi and Qureshi living in saudia have been married within their own race

No, If you had a male ancestor 1000 years ago and someone else had the exact same male ancestor, your Y dna would be almost identical.

'Mixing' doesn't apply to male dna. i.e. you cant have two dads.

For example if your granddad had 10000 sons, they all would have the same Y dna,

fast forward 1000 years into the future, those male descendants of the future would have the same y dna as your granddad (give or take very small DNA mutations) no matter what women they married. Because males pass on Y dna only. women cant pass on Y dna.

we all came from adam so then we are all one race //universal race ..

Yes, IF we are all descendants of Adam, then we are all Adamites.