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Pakistani Milgem Likely in Trouble

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Pakistani Milgem Likely in Trouble | TRDEFENCE


In the aftermath of the Pakistan floods, some observers say defense spending may be cut to aid reconstruction efforts, but in the end, objections to job losses and security concerns may protect defense budgets.

Pakistani opposition leader Nawaz Sharif, who was ousted by the military in 1999, has called for cuts in defense spending to aid reconstruction. An ardent foe of the military, he stands accused of corruption and tax evasion. Although the messenger may be dismissed, it is harder to dismiss the message.

Defense spending for 2010-11 grew by 30 percent over a year earlier, but cuts could affect some large-scale programs. Retired Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail said this may have to be the case, but the decision lies with the service chiefs.

Weak civilian governments are generally reluctant to interfere in the defense spending plans, he said. We have a precedent in the past where the Army chief postponed indefinitely the building of the new GHQ complex in Islamabad after the earthquake of 2005. Now, the defense forces are again confronted with a situation that is gravely reminiscent of the previous catastrophe, or worse. Under the circumstances, there is a need to put a moratorium on all development plans for at least a year. In addition, drastic austeri ty measures have to be put in place, he said.

Other analysts are unconvinced that calls for defense cuts will gain traction.

South Asia analyst Brian Cloughley said it is most likely that the population in general will not support defense spending cuts, mainly because the military is held in high regard. Although Sharif is more popular than [President] Asif Zardari, that doesnt say much. Politicians will jump on whatever bandwagon they think is most appealing to the voters, but I dont think interfering with defense would be a popular choice. So the notion is unlikely to gain ground. Neither did he think that the Armys most high-profile projects, the main battle tank and armored personnel carrier programs, would be affected.

The Zarrar and Khalid [tank] programs are not exactly wealth hazards. That is one of their attractions, Cloughley said. And we must remember that they are quite labor intensive the workers at HIT [Heavy Industries Taxila] wouldnt be enthralled by their jobs being cut. And theyre voters, too. Salma Malik, assistant professor at the Department of Defence and Strategic Studies at Islamabads Quaid-e-Azam University, is similarly unconvinced.

Personally, I feel there will not be any defense cuts because of the possibility of unrest in some areas, especially areas which have been hit by the insurgency, she said. The problem is far deeper than just flood relief. She said defense spending may actually be increased. Areas that had been the focus of anti-terrorist operations were also badly affected by flooding, and with the police unlikely to be able to handle any potential unrest, Malik said, the Army would probably have to step in to contain the situation.

The possibility of widespread civil unrest, and the need to carry on relief efforts, may also form opportunities for terrorists, who recently carried out bombings in Lahore and Quetta.

The Armys operational budget is unlikely to be cut, Malik said, and the Air Forces Chinese projects the JF-17 Thunder, KJ-200 airborne early warning and control and FC-20/J-10 aircraft are generally safe.

These are some of the things which are critically required, she said. The Air Force will not allow them to be affected. At worst, China will probably be more flexible with regards to payment options, which would work very well in Pakistans favor. Tufail, however, said he believes there is a case for renegotiating the F-16C/D Block 52 delivery schedule along with the payment of the remaining tranches, and that the JF-17 program would also have to be put on a go-slow, instead of the accelerated program currently underway. Likewise, he said, any new contracts, especially of costly avionics packages, need to be delayed, as it would be tantamount to mocking the post-flood reconstruction efforts which are expected to run into billions of dollars, he said.

If any service is likely to suffer, it is the Navy. Usman Shabbir of the Pakistani Military Consortium said the Navys next-generation submarine contest has been decided by default.

The German submarine deal, I am certain, is now dead after these floods, he said, referring to neverconcluded negotiations to purchase the HDW Type-214 that had been selected by the Navy. It had been expected the deal would be signed in 2008 or 2009.


Though a blow to the Navy, he does not think it to be a crippling one.

China has invested a lot of money and effort into submarine design and development over the past two decades, and even though it is still not the level of European subs, it is inching closer, he said.

A Chinese option already seems to have been selected to make up for the demise of the Pakistan-Turkish corvette program. The Pakistan-specific design, based on elements of the Turkish Milgem F-100/Ada (Island)-class corvette, was presented to the Navy in 2008 and a contract expected to be signed in 2009.

At best, it has been postponed, but considering the marked reluctance of officials in both countries to comment on its status, it has most likely been quietly buried.

Instead, July saw a decision to build two 500-ton Chinese-designed fast attack craft roughly similar in dimensions and capability to the Greek Navys Super Vita/Roussen patrol boats.
 
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Yar kuch mulaq ke naam ki bhi kherat aor sadqat kardo.. If we kept floating the way we are, Milgem wouldn't be the first thing that we might lose.
 
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It sucks the deal looks dead. These stealth corvettes would have been the most advanced surface vessels PN would have acquired. It would have given PN considerable multirole stealth capability.
 
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I believe, we are not gonna see anything else except for Chinese for the next 3-5 years time.

China provides weapon systems on soft loans, which suits us a lot. Plus, may be PN has liked the quality of the Chinese newer frigates and have inclined more for them, as its a fact that their ship building technology and capability has improved a lot.

In the next 3-5 years time period, we need to strengthen the PN surface fleet at emergency basis, 4 F22Ps (3 already delivered while 01 being made) would be complimented with another 3-4 ships of the bigger class with good air defence capability. 8 Chinese ships, 4-6 Ex-US ships with may be a few other bigger goodies would make a decent surface fleet for the PN.

After that and by then our financial position would be strong enough to go for the Turkish options, and by then Turks would have added hopefully more local systems on the frigates, making it more attractive to us.

Similarly, we can go for Chinese subs, but by adding our knowledge and experience in the Chinese solution and making it attractive for our sub fleet to induct such solutions. We do have good expertise and knowledge of making the French Agosta sub, we should share it with the Chinese and see what we can come up with.

Similarly, then we should look again at the U-214 option, especially since Turkey would be making them locally, thus we can have no worries with regard to spares or other issues and there would be commonality.
 
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TAX the feudal lords, urban elites, generals, etc & their supporters...the people and the soldiers have suffered enough of this trash mentality. Guaranteed we'll keep cutting defence until HIT and PAC are sold off...

Seriously don't expect anything substantial until some serious action is taken against the ticks sucking this land's wealth and leaving is people not only poor and hungry, but now unarmed. The line should have been drawn when the average Pakistani couldn't climb up the socio-economic ladder, but now it has gone beyond that line and it is now beyond ridiculous. A country of Pakistan's footing should never be in such a situation, how dare we let certain people chew us into another deadbeat Congo-type country. How much lower should we let ourselves go? We're seriously inching away from being a real power.
 
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I believe, we are not gonna see anything else except for Chinese for the next 3-5 years time.

China provides weapon systems on soft loans, which suits us a lot. Plus, may be PN has liked the quality of the Chinese newer frigates and have inclined more for them, as its a fact that their ship building technology and capability has improved a lot.

In the next 3-5 years time period, we need to strengthen the PN surface fleet at emergency basis, 4 F22Ps (3 already delivered while 01 being made) would be complimented with another 3-4 ships of the bigger class with good air defence capability. 8 Chinese ships, 4-6 Ex-US ships with may be a few other bigger goodies would make a decent surface fleet for the PN.

After that and by then our financial position would be strong enough to go for the Turkish options, and by then Turks would have added hopefully more local systems on the frigates, making it more attractive to us.

Similarly, we can go for Chinese subs, but by adding our knowledge and experience in the Chinese solution and making it attractive for our sub fleet to induct such solutions. We do have good expertise and knowledge of making the French Agosta sub, we should share it with the Chinese and see what we can come up with.

Similarly, then we should look again at the U-214 option, especially since Turkey would be making them locally, thus we can have no worries with regard to spares or other issues and there would be commonality.

Maybe something like this can be talked about when Erdogan visits ? I am sure Turkey can be accommodating. It seems the navy always gets screwed over when it comes to the branches :cry: Even now though the Air Force procurement looks to slow too.
 
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So it would be only Yuan or Song class subs for Pakistan. Well what we can we do? Sh*t happens.
:frown:
 
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Maybe something like this can be talked about when Erdogan visits ? I am sure Turkey can be accommodating. It seems the navy always gets screwed over when it comes to the branches :cry: Even now though the Air Force procurement looks to slow too.
Air Force and Army can afford to slow down now because a lot of their weapon-systems are locally manufactured and just need to be slowed down in terms of output. Instead of 24 JF-17s per year they'll have maybe 12~16...instead of 50 Al Khalid MBTs they will have up to 30, and so on.

The Navy on the other hand...there's little way around hefty acquisitions that easily go into the billions. The only thing one can do I think is perhaps fund R&D of systems they intend to induct into the future, and keep testing/maturing them until they can afford to order in larger numbers.

Realistically the only decisive option is to tax certain folks (Zardari-type characters) in the country...
 
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Similarly, we can go for Chinese subs, but by adding our knowledge and experience in the Chinese solution and making it attractive for our sub fleet to induct such solutions. We do have good expertise and knowledge of making the French Agosta sub, we should share it with the Chinese and see what we can come up with.

Similarly, then we should look again at the U-214 option, especially since Turkey would be making them locally, thus we can have no worries with regard to spares or other issues and there would be commonality.

I think French Agosta sub is early 90s design.China has invested much in sub technology, making some complex nuclear subs also.I believe china's new subs are level higher than anything agosta has and augosta design mayn't help that much for Chinese new design subs.Adding the soft loan scheme it should be a very good option for pakistan navy.

But I don't think after having 2 different types of subs, navy, having all its small funds, will go for another type sub.
 
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It is really bad to hear such a news but Think it like As long as You have sufficient technology to construct corvette class vessels along with honest technological assistance countries such as Chine-Turkey, It is no problem whether It is constructed in this year or following years. When the time and conditions are matured again, This program will be accelerated with newer technologies.

Think it positive. In following years, Many new missile and radar technologies have also be matured by Turk-Pakistan side and Most probably, TF-2000 program would also be matured more. Maybe, Turk and Pakistani officials talked about slowing down such naval programs to perform more co-R&D's to apply for vessels with more national contribution rates ??? Interestingly, Latest reports indicated that TF-2000 schedule has also be delayed up to 2020.
 
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It is really bad to hear such a news but Think it like As long as You have sufficient technology to construct corvette class vessels along with honest technological assistance countries such as Chine-Turkey, It is no problem whether It is constructed in this year or following years. When the time and conditions are matured again, This program will be accelerated with newer technologies.

Think it positive brothers. In following years, Many new missile and radar technologies have also be matured by Turk-Pakistan side and Most probably, TF-2000 program would also be matured more. Maybe, Turk and Pakistani officials talked about slowing down such naval programs to perform more co-R&D's to apply for vessels with more national contribution rates ??? Interestingly, Latest reports indicated that TF-2000 schedule has also be delayed up to 2020.

Well the TF-2000 being delayed is understandable it is a 6,000 ton ship with advanced AAW capability and that requires significant R&D and funds to develop. We are also working on our LPD/LHD. Since we no longer purchase naval ships directly and instead develop them it is going to take considerable time for the more complex procurements. It looks like pakistan is going to tone it down for a few years maybe seeing as with the floods happening the procurement speed and level must be toned down. I don't think it is a cooperative agreement to slow down R&D though.
 
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Yar kuch mulaq ke naam ki bhi kherat aor sadqat kardo.. If we kept floating the way we are, Milgem wouldn't be the first thing that we might lose.

This statement is much suited to the corrupt politicians and the current government of PakisTan , i.e. , The ppp (PakisTan ParTiTion ParTy ) 's government which has broken aLL The past records of boTh moraL and monetary corrupTion ... graphican , jusT ask mr. Ten percenT and navaz sharif To jusT bring back onLy 5 % of their foreign wealth stored in swiss banks abroad to PakisTan , aLL the fLood - reconstruction expenses shaLL be covered in no Time wiThouT any penny of any foreign assissTance whatsoever..:pdf:
 
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