Pakistani Female Pilots, report by CNN

[muse]

.

just get a guide from ur ISLAM i hink males in pak are impotent to give such roles to womens2ndly

Interesting ideas - the world today is like the world in 7th century - our society is the same as 7th century mecca and Medina - Alos interesting ideas about "ghairat" and in particular about virility - a virile man is apparently a man who is unable to reconcile with reality and lives in the advise of a ideologue.

Clearly some feel emasculated in the presence of women.

 

[zavis2003]

Like the weapons about hem we said they are combat proved or not same is the case with women fighter pilots they are not combat provenzzzzzzzzzz. and plz plz dont tell me that USAF women pilots shot down TAlibans Planes i already know this

 

[zavis2003]

an i astonished to see that y y they aree not inducting men in stead of women it is easy to fly a plane if woman can do all of us can do

the only thing which distingush men from women is

where intelligence fails courage takes start

 

[Muradk]

what i am going to say after it 50% of members wouls attack me so ist i look a safe side for me

ok PAF doesnt need women if trueely speeking , what ALLAH said is correct coz ALLAH is creator of all creatures and he knows better then us which is better for what puprpose and In ISlam women are not for flying or for any hard tasks. even there expenditures are responsibilities of male spouses. think if u believe in ISlam that women are not assigned for outside work (i have no taliban views) how u through responsibility of defence on them , though during WARS they did some role but they were not assingned for any warrior ttype role. i know most of u are muslims at dis forum(sorry to non muslim bros) u ppl know ha during BADAR WAR muslims were 313 so few but he didnt brought women into WAR. just get a guide from ur ISLAM i hink males in pak are impotent to give such roles to womens2ndly sorry to say but its reallity culure inside PAF is not good i have so many relatives in PAF and i knew all dis from them there are drinkers present there . we as pakistani needs o keep it away such culture . thats fact and moderatorz plz plz permit us to say independently

Get ready to get some serious pounding
I am sorry but your perception about PAF is totally wrong, I don't your relatives but I assure you it is not what you are saying. It is totally the opposite. In 36 years I have never heard 1 incidence of Abuse. If the boys and the girls have a mutual relationship that is there own business they are mature enough to handle it. Women in Armed forces have always got respect from there Juniors and Seniors.
Bringing Islam into this would be a bit to much. Islam doesn't say that women are only to make babies and cook food. The word un ka liya behter hai is used most of the time. But not Un ka liya munah hai.

Liquor: When PAF used to serve Liquor not 1 officer in the morning used to be drunk or smell like he had one to many. I can give you examples of officers getting CT just because there breath smelled of liquor. Every one who used to drink were very careful not only that your BATMAN used to be in the mess and when he said no to the barman officer or no officer you didn't get any more the Batman working knew he is drunk or not. Even than in those days I never heard any abuse

 

[SeaGull]

I feel what Zavis is trying to convey to us is the right thing. We are the protectors of our Women and not the other way round.
It definitely seems amiss in a society to look forward to their girls to defend them against an enemy.
Let us not follow the ways of the West in the name of progress and advancement, it just doesn't add up at all.
Long live Musharraf - who started it all. some progressive he was.

 

[Patriot]

what i am going to say after it 50% of members wouls attack me so ist i look a safe side for me

ok PAF doesnt need women if trueely speeking , what ALLAH said is correct coz ALLAH is creator of all creatures and he knows better then us which is better for what puprpose and In ISlam women are not for flying or for any hard tasks. even there expenditures are responsibilities of male spouses. think if u believe in ISlam that women are not assigned for outside work (i have no taliban views) how u through responsibility of defence on them , though during WARS they did some role but they were not assingned for any warrior ttype role. i know most of u are muslims at dis forum(sorry to non muslim bros) u ppl know ha during BADAR WAR muslims were 313 so few but he didnt brought women into WAR. just get a guide from ur ISLAM i hink males in pak are impotent to give such roles to womens2ndly sorry to say but its reallity culure inside PAF is not good i have so many relatives in PAF and i knew all dis from them there are drinkers present there . we as pakistani needs o keep it away such culture . thats fact and moderatorz plz plz permit us to say independently

I think you are talking as if these women are forced to join PAF.No, they themselves joined PAF and your preception quite frankly about PAF is very very wrong..
Also not to forget

No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. Muhammad Ali Jinnah
and

We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live. -Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Women should be given equal oppurtunity if they're qualified they should be allowed.I wont disscuss religion as you will say that i am bashing Islam etc..The women in PAF are flying air crafts not doing some haram work so its perfectly fine as far religion is concerend.

 

[Xeric]

A quick question from Zavis:

Then where does 'women should work along with men' statements fits in this picture?

 

[Awesome]

At first it was strength, then oh women would get raped if fallen over enemy territory, now its mental stress. Bloody men!

Women all over the world have reached a level of equality with men. It should all be about merit. If a woman is a better pilot (tested for her capability to handle stress better than any other candidate), then I'd be damned if a lesser male candidate gets to defend our nation instead of the better pilot.

Its the ultimate height of stupidity. Some people are ready to risk the defence of this nation just to protect their patriarchal traditions.

 

[gambit]

At first it was strength, then oh women would get raped if fallen over enemy territory, now its mental stress. Bloody men!

Women all over the world have reached a level of equality with men. It should all be about merit. If a woman is a better pilot (tested for her capability to handle stress better than any other candidate), then I'd be damned if a lesser male candidate gets to defend our nation instead of the better pilot.

Its the ultimate height of stupidity. Some people are ready to risk the defence of this nation just to protect their patriarchal traditions.

Sexual assault is part of SERE training...

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For every female whose duties has a high potential of putting her into capture. Some duties such as pilots or field linguists are required but most have SERE training as optional. In SERE, and I am a graduate of the USAF's SERE school, the woman is subjected many degrading things just short of actual assault. All are required to sign a non-disclosure agreement to protect the instructors and the program itself. I will not go into details suffice to say that I know what 'waterboarding' is like. All graduates do. The training is available, quietly informed, to female diplomats as well and the diplomat's program are much shorter and less harsh.

Some women I have spoken to who are SERE graduates and still determined to enter careers that could place them into such dangers were under no illusions about what they would face. These women I know would rather fight to the death if they could. We have documents translated from many sources, from Soviet Union era to today's jihadis, instructing their soldiers to as much as possible capture US/Western female military members alive solely for sexual assaults and disseminate their sufferings as part of a psychological warfare campaign. Strangely enough, the Soviet Glavnoye Razvedyvatel'noye Upravleniye (GRU) is the organization most averse to employ sexual assaults, although not entirely dismissed, as part of their interrogation program. The Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti (KGB) is the opposite.

 

[greatsequence]

I think for women coming in hands of enemy is seriously being under played. If they are captured it is more likely they will be assaulted. History is full of it and no one should have any illusions that it will not happen again.

 

[SeaGull]

Pakistan has been very capably defended by menfolk until 1971.
1971, as Muradk also mentions, was a different ball game that had no chance, even if Pakistan had the F-16s to fight the war with.

 

[Patriot]

Pakistan has been very capably defended by menfolk until 1971.
1971, as Muradk also mentions, was a different ball game that had no chance, even if Pakistan had the F-16 s to fight the war with.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Pakistan has been very capably defended by menfolk until 1971.
1971, as Muradk also mentions, was a different ball game that had no chance, even if Pakistan had the F-16 s to fight the war with.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

Pakistan has been very capably defended by menfolk until 1971.
1971, as Muradk also mentions, was a different ball game that had no chance, even if Pakistan had the F-16s to fight the war with.

yes, but future wars won't be like 71.They will be pure conventional wars but let's just hope there will no war.

 

[rizhussain44]

.


Interesting ideas - the world today is like the world in 7th century - our society is the same as 7th century mecca and Medina - Alos interesting ideas about "ghairat" and in particular about virility - a virile man is apparently a man who is unable to reconcile with reality and lives in the advise of a ideologue.

Clearly some feel emasculated in the presence of women.

Dude... What he referred to was an example from Prophet's P.B.U.H life that even though there were only 313 men against a much bigger force women were not used for combat. The guidance that Prophet P.B.U.H gave us by his actions was not only for the 7th Century or for two centuries after that, it is meant to be followed even today and for future till the judgement day. Now don't come back saying that "don't bring religion into this". Being Muslims we are suppose to take guidance from our religion in every matter of our life rather then just relying on our 'sane' reasonings and on "what we feel is right"

 

[muse]

Being Muslims we are suppose to take guidance from our religion in every matter of our life rather then just relying on our 'sane' reasonings and on "what we feel is right"

Ok, but our religion does not say we are forever arabs in the 7th century does it? And if your position is that that we must take guidance from all aspects of religion, where in Quran does it say women should not fly fighter or transport jets?

And if your point is Sunnah, well, dear riz, our beloved prophet had 13 wives, should we also have 13 wives, should we also.... well, you know there are so many ways to defeat the position you are offering.

religion offer guidance to those who will discern such gudance and not to those who do not think and imagine that we are today as we were yesterday - the beloved prophet did not use a telephone, shall we stop using it, the beloved prophet did not travel in a jet, shall we do likewise? the beloved prophet did not appear on TV, shall we ban Mullah from TV?.

Religion is guidance for FAITH in God, not a "little red book", religion is one of the sciences, not the totality of science - won't you agree?

 

[rizhussain44]

Ok, but our religion does not say we are forever arabs in the 7th century does it? And if your position is that that we must take guidance from all aspects of religion, where in Quran does it say women should not fly fighter or transport jets?

Dear Muse, Quarn is not explicit in its guidance so don't expect such explicit directions from Quarn. It tells you to offer prayer, does it tell how to offer it? That's what you get from Sunnah.

And if your point is Sunnah, well, dear riz, our beloved prophet had 13 wives, should we also have 13 wives, should we also.... well, you know there are so many ways to defeat the position you are offering.

So shall I conclude from your this statement that either we don't need to follow Sunnah or we don't need to follow it in its totality?

First of all, during his life the Prophet P.B.U.H. married eleven or thirteen time. He did not have 13 or 11 wives at any given time, the way it sounded in your statement. There are certain conditions for having more than one wives at the same time and these conditions are not easy to comply with. Given you comply with them you are 'allowed' to have 4 wives. It's not that Muslim men are asked to have 4 wives."

....the beloved prophet did not use a telephone, shall we stop using it, the beloved prophet did not travel in a jet, shall we do likewise? the beloved prophet did not appear on TV, shall we ban Mullah from TV?.

Do you really think that that would be called taking guidance from Prophet's P.B.U.H life? or that
above can be compared to what I referred to as taking guidance while referring to the incident of Jang-e-Badar? If you do think that the two are same then I really can't help it.

Religion is guidance for FAITH in God, not a "little red book", religion is one of the sciences, not the totality of science - won't you agree?

Faith is only the first part of the religion. Your deeds should also be as per the religion. So to me it is more of a "little red book" as you have put it.

Anyway.. this is getting way off the topic. I would try not to further pro long this discussion.