Pakistan will soon get J10

[Donatello]

A comparison is fine especially in this context where IAF are getting MMRCA and this is meant to counter the MMRCA. But saying he J-10 is equal or superior to Eurocanards is what I object to.



A comparison is fine especially in this context where IAF are getting MMRCA and this is meant to counter the MMRCA. But saying he J-10 is equal or superior to Eurocanards is what I object to.

Typical Amateurish reply.

Just because J-10 is made by China and you don't want to believe in it, doesn't mean it is not good. You people need to get this out of your mentality.

Tell me, what is so Special about Rafale?

Please tell. And by tell me, not the paper specs but real scenarios....combat roles??? Has Rafale really proven its mettle that you have to suck up to it so bad.....and object to any other thing that China develops and Pakistan might get?

 

[MilSpec]

The J10B may be a good a/c but it in no way is comparable to EFT or Rafale. It just isn't possible at this stage for the Chinese industries to have the same sort of design and production capabitles as established companies especially one like Dassualt that is making the most advanced tech in thei world. The J10 may be able to compete in some flight aspects like sustained turn and the like but in avionics (where modern combat is one and lost these days) there is just no comparison between the J-10 and the Euro-canards apart from some cosmetic similarities which have, no doubt, been ripped off.

+ certainly not the versions that competed in MMRCA ie the EFT T3 and Rafale F3 with AESA, super cruise, HMDS etc

As far as IAF is concerned, FC20 systems threat perception is concerned, it should be treated at par or better than our platforms for over preparedness. If we treat FC20 equivalent to say an MKI or rafale, we will need to dedicate 3:1 numbers as constant detterent measure, which in turn will improve our general rating. Induction of J10 might lead in as the single most important factor to increase the number from 128 to 200.

It just isn't possible at this stage for the Chinese industries to have the same sort of design and production capabitles as established companies especially one like Dassualt that is making the most advanced tech in thei world.

sir,
there is no way to actually corroborate that statement. What design lacks is usually made up by testing, I know this first hand that, if you have an effective testing plan you can achieve major capabilities in a series of three prototypes what others might have taken 8-12 prototypes to achieve.

Another thing we need to pay serious attention to is the amount of advance technology vs cost factor. Chinese have proven they can provide significant technological benefits at fractional costs, which was the bread and butter for the russians at one time. If Chinese can replicate j10's capabilities in line with what Mikoyan did with the fulcrum vis-a-vis the teen series, we can expect to see a lot order-books filling in fast.

IMHO, I am happy to see the potential in an asian system to compete against the best in the world. Hopefully we will be in this position one day.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Typical Amateurish reply.

Just because J-10 is made by China and you don't want to believe in it, doesn't mean it is not good. You people need to get this out of your mentality.

Tell me, what is so Special about Rafale?

Please tell. And by tell me, not the paper specs but real scenarios....combat roles??? Has Rafale really proven its mettle that you have to suck up to it so bad.....and object to any other thing that China develops and Pakistan might get?

Talk about amateur. I am looking at the situation purely objectively. No independent expert would put to Rafale in the same league as the J-10. I don't care whether China made it, that isn't the point. Look back at Oscar's post- he knows his stuff and he agrees the J-10 isn't as good as the Rafale. Regarding combat scernios- be creative, what scernio do you see a 1:1 fight favouring the J-10?

 

[lightoftruth]

Dear God! how many times!.....
China’s J-10B fighter to Pak worries India - India - DNA
China to give squadron of J-10B fighters to Pakistan*|*China Military Power Mashup

atleast open the links before posting where does they mention Pakistan buying j10 its all media speculation. any links from mod?

 

[SQ8]

Look at its this way..
Can the J-10B's under-testing radar match the range of the rafale's RBE-2 radar ..yes
Can the J-10B's AESA system incorporate all the modes available to the RBE-2 along with the SAR picture refinement? NO
Can the J-10B's EW suite detect ESA systems and warn the pilot before hand? YES.
Can the J-10B's EW suite(based on what we know with the JF-17 and its integrated and external ECM suite) provide protection by offering both noise and deceptive jamming along with an intermediate DRFM? YES
Is the J-10B's sensor fusion as efficient as the Rafale (offering omnirole engagement capability)? NO...the J-10B cannot attack both ground and air targets simultaneously...it has to change radar modes.
Can the J-10B's Man-machine interface match that of the rafale... YES
Does the J-10B have a HOBS missile and a HMS system? YES

However, these are the specifications of the aircraft seen being tested at Chengdu.. NOT the FC-20..
because the FC-20 is still a fluid concept which has yet to be finalised by the PAF on what has to be fitted..and what not.
It is without a doubt, that the FC-20 will incorporate MORE than this machine that sits at Chengdu.
Hence.. I see no reason not to compare the J-10B or the Eurocanards..
It may not be able to match them in all spheres of combat aircraft performance.. but it certainly holds the ability to match them in air combat.

atleast open the links before posting where does they mention Pakistan buying j10 its all media speculation. any links from mod?

Links exist throughout the forum, this meeting may or may not have brought up the subject..
since it may not have made it into the report..
After all.. most people will not report if the PAF Chief asked the Chinese guest if he would like some tea.

HOWEVER..the current status of the FC-20 for the PAF is still a LoI(letter of intent) for the purchase..and no Order has been placed YET.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

HOWEVER..the current status of the FC-20 for the PAF is still a LoI(letter of intent) for the purchase..and no Order has been placed YET.

They are getting 114 billion rupees during 2012-13,will it be sufficient to proceed on and finalize it?

 

[Great Sachin]

Is China is giving gift or Pakistan is buying?.....

 

[SQ8]

They are getting 114 billion rupees during 2012-13,will it be sufficient to proceed on and finalize it?

Put that into dollars, then take away maintenance costs for the whole PAF(men and material) less new aircraft..then take away costs for manufacturing and inducting JF-17(aircraft+weapons+training+infrastructure)..and then decide for yourself.

Is China is giving gift or Pakistan is buying?.....

Neither..
Pakistan will have to buy these on soft loans from China.

 

[ziaulislam]

FC-20 is a fluid concept it hasnt been finalized so its useless to compare it to any aircrft now..we never know how would it stands in 2015..by that time it may be as good as the eurofighter in most aspects.. nevertheless its still comparable to rafale and typhoon even today, may be not equal but definitively comparable

by the way its unlikly that we get it before 2015 for variety of reasons..i think PAF would like to wait and see the MRCA first besides the funds issues

 

[PakShaheen79]

As it is evident that project is not completed yet and more changes will be made (regardless of what model FC-20 is of J-10). So, i would like to suggest here that everyone must stop comparing this thing with any other fighter until it gets roll out from CAC's assembly lines.

Thank you all.

 

[IceCold]

Why are we getting so over joyed over just a model presented since we cant have the real ones, Chinese thought since the friendship is higher then whatever, lets give them the model.
We don't have the money and China has a certain limit to which it will credit, even with the next government in place, it will take considerable time for our economy to recover from the damage the bastards have done to it. Dollar has gone to 94 can you fcking believe it????
2014.......highly unrealistic timeline for J-10s in my unprofessional opinion.

 

[Secur]

I don't care whether China made it, that isn't the point.

Well , almost all the time that is the one and only reason for a defense equipment not being " up to par " just because it was made in China ... Time to change mentality ...

 

[SBD-3]

Exactly, I wasn't tying to say it was a 2nd gen fighter but to compare it to the Eurocanards, as some members WERE doing, was utterly laughable and false.

an aircraft close to Eurofighter would be a second generation aircraft.....Nice research kid....

Look at its this way..
Can the J-10B's under-testing radar match the range of the rafale's RBE-2 radar ..yes
Can the J-10B's AESA system incorporate all the modes available to the RBE-2 along with the SAR picture refinement? NO
Can the J-10B's EW suite detect ESA systems and warn the pilot before hand? YES.
Can the J-10B's EW suite(based on what we know with the JF-17 and its integrated and external ECM suite) provide protection by offering both noise and deceptive jamming along with an intermediate DRFM? YES
Is the J-10B's sensor fusion as efficient as the Rafale (offering omnirole engagement capability)? NO...the J-10B cannot attack both ground and air targets simultaneously...it has to change radar modes.
Can the J-10B's Man-machine interface match that of the rafale... YES
Does the J-10B have a HOBS missile and a HMS system? YES

However, these are the specifications of the aircraft seen being tested at Chengdu.. NOT the FC-20..
because the FC-20 is still a fluid concept which has yet to be finalised by the PAF on what has to be fitted..and what not.
It is without a doubt, that the FC-20 will incorporate MORE than this machine that sits at Chengdu.
Hence.. I see no reason not to compare the J-10B or the Eurocanards..
It may not be able to match them in all spheres of combat aircraft performance.. but it certainly holds the ability to match them in air combat.



Links exist throughout the forum, this meeting may or may not have brought up the subject..
since it may not have made it into the report..
After all.. most people will not report if the PAF Chief asked the Chinese guest if he would like some tea.

HOWEVER..the current status of the FC-20 for the PAF is still a LoI(letter of intent) for the purchase..and no Order has been placed YET.

And you're explaining this to who.......like they say argue with someone who has the same information level as you....else it would be a waste of time.

 

[Super Falcon]

i dont see they are coming

 

[SBD-3]

atleast open the links before posting where does they mention Pakistan buying j10 its all media speculation. any links from mod?

Very nice argument.....duh!