Pakistan will launch a two-seater version of JF-17 - Induction of JF-17B in 2017

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

You are correct about the lack of dual seater design at the time of conception.

It was of utmost idiocy---when the Paf did not have a dual seater to begin with---.

That is why I keep saying---there is no one to really challenge the decision of the heirarchy---no one has the courage to speak up.

This aircraft should have been produced along with the single seater to begin with---. Now it is a catching up game---and making many a COMPROMISES.

I wrote one time---that the JF17 in itself has a compromising design due to a short wheel strut---it gives little clearance for a Ra'ad ALCM---and someone mentioned that the F16 has a similar clearance.

To that gentleman---at the time F16 was designed---there were no ALCM's to be launched by an aircraft like the F16---so the clearance was never in question---.

When it comes to the design of JF17b, it must pertain to the PAF's budget. if china can produce something like J20, it must can design a wholly reinvented cool JF17b. Cost, cost,cost and cost.if PAF says we want a longer JF17b dual seater with WS10 engine, we also can make it as long as enough money. Also if they insist on a canopy open backward fancy like F16 we also can do it, refer to J10s. This craft is fruit of Pakistan airforce input, per their requirement. So for that reason, no more bash is necessary.

It's a trainer jet, not a dedicated bomb fighter.

I will choose to concentrate on BLK3.

 

[The SC]

As it is buky, might cause drag.

Tell PAF to go for J10b, it looks much more handsome. We want a fighter here not a dolphine.


I was very unhappy today cause i think CAC made Pakistani brother's expection fall short. I should be more cool than what it looks now. i mean more sleeker.

The Dolphin is the best swimmer out there..if JF-17B can move in the air like a dolphin in the sea, it will be a very great fighter..

 

[帅的一匹]

I see the maiden flight video! The JF17b engine doesn't produce smoke as the same JF17 accompanied it. New engine! WS13!

I say great achievement!

 

[khanasifm]

Who was asking for an IFR probe? it is there in the CAD. also the night IFR operations light is there on the flying prototype.

View attachment 393417

The .5 meter wing span increase to add more hardpoints under the wing ?? Not sure why or to compensate for weightt but the weight os same as single seat so not sure

 

[Deino]

Did someone say AESA radar ?

IMO not yet in the prototype since the radome is clearly not the grey one but a painted metal cover. Just compare with single-seaters under construction.

 

[帅的一匹]

Why cant you give the jets as aid like usa to pakistani brothers ? Why all this money talk ?

Cause money is belonging to taxpayer.

 

[The Accountant]

Because

The Cannopy Shape is big change
View attachment 393452

New engine ? Tail is different

The scar mark beside cannopy ...what are these ?
View attachment 393454

If the scar is related to the new cannopy not sure why it was not needed with the older Thunder design the other design had no such sticking out scars

Because the cannopy opening is from sideways

 

[Mrc]

looks fantastic... indeed an improvement

 

[ssethii]

View attachment 393455

How you reach to such conclusion and why there is an extra hump beside these "hinges"

 

[CriticalThought]

The slant on the vertical, ... .. anyone care to comment. Noticed the J-10 has the slant

1. It pushes the aerodynamic centre of the vertical towards the aft, thus increasing the lateral moment, and improving directional stability.

2. In transonic and supersonic flight, it reduces the shock wave drag.

I wouldn't be surprised if the max velocity of JF-17B has gone up as a result.

I'm not sure if it's just the photo quality or the fact that it's new, but it seems like there are some subtle changes to the airframe build quality. Seems 'softer' and 'cleaner'.

Probably it's the composites...

 

[Army research]

Would there be any structural changes say if a new model is to incorporate IRST ?

 

[Arsalan]

Man I am not much technical in this aspect (turn etc) but i can tell you, I've seen both aircraft many many times and their max turns. I don't know how people comparing Max-Turn of both. If you ask me is that same ? or even 70%... big NO. The way F16 turns especially maintaining speed, JF start shaking up lol Whatever you can call this i dont know in technical terms but in Punjab (phat phut jaadi hey JF ke turn pe jesay F16 karta hey) Smooth, Neat, maintaining speed as well as sound of engine boost -- everything SMOOTH as comparetively JF17 brum brum brum. I always maintain my remarks for both. F16 whatso ever old or new but JF17 nowhere near to F16 in ANYTHING!

PS: I knew the design philosophies

Thanks for your input. Appreciated.
I completely understand what you are saying.

If i may just add my opinion to it, for me, we are comparing JF17 with F16, THAT in itself is an achievement. I do not want to sound like a fanboy here but this is a fact sir and an achievement. Was the Pakistani industrial base ever imagined to be able to come up with something that can be even compared to this US war machine? People may argue that this is not a Pakistani product and things like that but these are just arguments. We all know that this have been accomplished.

As for the comparison, there are two things that we people getting all excited about our product often tend to forget.

1. JF-177 was ALWAYS meant to be a low price solution to our BVR needs. A sanction free home grown product that that will live us the liberty to operate, arm, modify and upgrade as we want to. Something that we can procure in numbers and without trouble that we can never do with F16s.
2. F-16 we see and know of is a product of 40 years of evolution backed by the US defense industry that is worth billions and billions of dollars. A super power have run that project for decades. Around 2000 planes have been made to date. JF17 on other hand is being made by a developing country and is some 12-15 years old with total numbers produced under 100!!! Still if we can even compare it with F16, that means something.

IN short, JF17 meets our needs at an affordable price. I will love if we can afford those Su and EFT but as of now, we cannot. Not at least in the numbers deemed necessary. That is what JF-17 means to PAF.

The duel Seat glass canoppy needs 1 part
Just 1 simple mechanical part which has a longer rod inside to lifet cannopy higher

Instead of installing door knobs on side

View attachment 393457


Don't see the technical challenge in doing something clean as this

View attachment 393458

Cannopy has to be fixed so there are no door knob hinges on side of plane effects the aerodynamics of the wind flow

This part sells for $20-$70 in most auto shops world wide

Since plane is still being built and tested we should put a request forward to suggest upward opening cannopy

View attachment 393460


We all know what happens to Cricket ball in reverse swing one side is shinny and other is rough!!!!

If small cricket ball changes direction rapidly due to this you can imagine the impact on a high performance Jet at high speeds

May be this will make the plane "reverse swing" and the enemy wont even know what hit them... just like those yorkers

Just kidding, i agree that since this is just a prototype plane we should work on it and improve in areas where we can.

 

[MystryMan]

If we compare the model shown at Ideas 2016 with the prototype, which one is better design? Just a comment: I really liked that model.
@MastanKhan @Quwa @MarvellousThunder@PDC or any other knowledgeable member.

 

[CriticalThought]

Thanks for your input. Appreciated.
I completely understand what you are saying.

If i may just add my opinion to it, for me, we are comparing JF17 with F16, THAT in itself is an achievement. I do not want to sound like a fanboy here but this is a fact sir and an achievement. Was the Pakistani industrial base ever imagined to be able to come up with something that can be even compared to this US war machine? People may argue that this is not a Pakistani product and things like that but these are just arguments. We all know that this have been accomplished.

As for the comparison, there are two things that we people getting all excited about our product often tend to forget.

1. JF-177 was ALWAYS meant to be a low price solution to our BVR needs. A sanction free home grown product that that will live us the liberty to operate, arm, modify and upgrade as we want to. Something that we can procure in numbers and without trouble that we can never do with F16s.
2. F-16 we see and know of is a product of 40 years of evolution backed by the US defense industry that is worth billions and billions of dollars. A super power have run that project for decades. Around 2000 planes have been made to date. JF17 on other hand is being made by a developing country and is some 12-15 years old with total numbers produced under 100!!! Still if we can even compare it with F16, that means something.

IN short, JF17 meets our needs at an affordable price. I will love if we can afford those Su and EFT but as of now, we cannot. Not at least in the numbers deemed necessary. That is what JF-17 means to PAF.


May be this will make the plane "reverse swing" and the enemy wont even know what hit them... just like those yorkers

Just kidding, i agree that since this is just a prototype plane we should work on it and improve in areas where we can.

It doesn't mean the Thunder can't beat F-16 on turn rate. I mean amongst the thousand and one performance parameters that can be used to compare aircraft, it is still possible for a third world country to beat the super power on one single parameter. It doesn't mean we already have, but we could. Also, JF-17 is a joint effort by us - third world - and China a global industrial superpower who has a rover on the moon, a space station in orbit, and a whole aircraft carrier on planet earth that is indigenously made from scratch in China. Only two countries today have a fifth generation plane in production: U.S., China. So there is no reason we can't beat them.

JF-17 has been limited by the engine. Hopefully, as time passes, we will get our hands on a much better one. And then, the smaller JF-17 will definitely beat the medium weight F-16 in turn rates. Insha Allah.

If we compare the model shown at Ideas 2016 with the prototype, which one is better design? Just a comment: I really liked that model.
@MastanKhan @Quwa @MarvellousThunder@PDC or any other knowledgeable member.

The design that actually flies is the best design

 

[volatile]

FT 7 Trainer

Comparison of previous legendary fighter and trainer ,looks similar in approach to JF17B evolution ,the interesting question remains that is this PT-01 or production aircraft what i understand that the design is still evolving and we might see a PT-3 or atleast PT-2 . (prototype) ,Also If you see and look around various forums the spinal or root extensions in F16 are based on various designs and electronics housings

F16D 480th sq

Singapore block 52+ D