What's new

Pakistan was created on the basis of group nationalism and not religion

I fail to understand if the Paksitanis don't want to identify with Indian civilisation, why should we insist on it?

If they are happy without Indian civilisation being the genesis, so be it!
 
.
This is faulty logic. Even the term "China" is of foreign origin, the internal name used is quite different.

Like it our not, India is a civilizational state. It was united many times in its history, even with our differences we share a common heritage

3 times it remained under one king ever.


and that too im sure very losely.
 
.
I haven't bothered reading the thread because I honestly don't understand what is this obsession with Pakistan's raison d'etre.

Other than a academic exercise in history, it really doesn't matter.

Pakistan is here; we are happy with the nation state of Pakistan and we are proud to be Pakistanis.

Time to stop being obsessed with the past, and start focussing on the present and future.
 
.
I understand your anguish and it is legitimate.

However, that is not the popular sentiment.

How can Muslims be 'outsiders'?

They are unlike the British. They intermingled with the country and became a part and parcel of it to share the joys and sorrows of the country.

Then many became Muslims.

The 'separateness' blurred.

So, how are they 'outsiders'?


which country?
 
.
EjazR:

My mother was born & raised in Patna, before she married my father in Pakistan & moved here, surrendering her Indian passport. She's never been happier. My father was born in Ranchi, & my grandfather and my dad moved to Pakistan when my dad was only 3. My maternal side has lots of "zameen" in Khujwa village, Bihar; and in 1947, Hindu mobs forcefully took them away from our family, that we lived on for hundreds of years in Bihar. My maternal grandparents had to move to Patna, many moved to Lucknow and Delhi in 1947. After a few years, even my maternal grandparents had to leave Patna, & lived in Lucknow with the rest of my family in the '50s, because of the deteriorating situation in Patna. I still have mother's family & my father's extended family in India today, in parts of Bihar & UP. You don't have to belittle Pakistanis by disrespecting the very existence of Pakistan, there is a very legitimate reason as to why Pakistan was created. I've visited Khujwa, Patna & Lucknow myself in 2007, so I know what I'm talking about. Indian Muslims, despite having higher education levels than Pakistani Muslims, are the most underrepresented (in every field of life) & deprived community in India; despite being the second largest minority in India, almost equalling the population of Pakistan.
 
.
I fail to understand if the Paksitanis don't want to identify with Indian civilisation, why should we insist on it?

If they are happy without Indian civilisation being the genesis, so be it!

What I fail to understand is why Indians think their country's history is thousands of years old, whereas Pakistan's history is "apparently" only 63 years old. Another inherent contradiction in the statements made by Indians that want Pakistan to "embrace their Indian heritage". :azn:

Just goes to show the levels of their obsession, they just can't stop obsessing with everything Pakistan.
 
.
I fail to understand if the Paksitanis don't want to identify with Indian civilisation, why should we insist on it?

If they are happy without Indian civilisation being the genesis, so be it!

a segment maybe. Islam never changed colour of our skin, it just uplifted us from regional associations. some like to stick with that...we have no problem...
 
.
No, the murderer of Taseer was a zealot. Mumtaz Qadri wasn't a "religious" person by any stretch of the imagination, he had a girlfriend & had love affairs before marriage with a girl in Karachi. He was a crazed fanatic. The most powerful & respected Barelvi scholars amongst all Muslims such as Dr Tahir ul-Qadri and Ghamidi have publicly condemned his murder.




Can you name me some groups of militant Shia & Barelvi groups in Pakistan? It's not good to hold out a whole community responsible for the actions of a zealot. Uneducated zealots will support murderers like Qadri, who kill innocent people in the name of "protecting the Prophet(S)'s honor." Extreme religious fervor is completely against the ideology of Islam, & most Barelvis still maintain this principle. Don't take an isolated incident & make it something it's not. You seem to be forgetting that since the inception of Pakistan; Shias, Ismailis, Parsis, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Ahmedis & other non-Muslims have lived very peacefully alongside the majority Barelvi Muslims since 1947. Some Barelvis are fanatics in their love of the Prophet(S), but they are not representative of the Barelvi ideology found in Pakistan. So most of your post is pure generalization based on one/a few incidents.




There has been no involvement ever proven of the alleged hand of the Pakistani government or intelligence in Afghanistan. Don't go by speculation posted by western journalists in their articles, no official of any high stature from Pakistan or anywhere in the world has said the Pakistani government supports the Taliban in any way. Every official has said Pakistan has done a lot against the Taliban, & it needs to do more. There is absolutely no proof indicting Pakistan in supporting the Taliban, besides speculations in reports by some journalists.

The Kashmir movement only became militant in the 1990's, because of all the violence perpetrated by the Indian forces. Kashmir does not belong to India, it is disputed territory.




Let's leave assumptions out of this, if I can recall correctly, there has been no fatwa declared because Kashmiris are genuinely fighting for their freedom, while the Indian Army has been committing terrorism against them since 1947, & it was only in the past 20 years that the movement became militant. India should stop committing terrorism before asking others to stop fighting for survival, calling it "terrorism".




You find me one person from the Ahle-Hadees, Barelvi, Deobandi ulema that explicitly says the Kashmiris are committing terrorism against the Indian Army. Yes, they say terrorism is to be condemned, and that is what all Muslims believe. So the Indian Army should stop it.




Pakistan used to be involved in Kashmir, it is not involved in Kashmir anymore. Kashmir is not India's land, it it disputed land that Pakistan considers it's own, and Pakistan will do everything to help Kashmiris fight terrorism from the Indian occupied forces. Zakir Naik said Pakistan should never have been created because the 2-nation theory was unjustified, & people like him are Indian sellouts. It was these people that spoke against the very existence of Pakistan. Anyways, these guys are no experts in politics, they have no right to talk about things they have no clue about. They are not taking any religious stand, they have no knowledge on these issues, so it's better they keep quiet on issues that are not their expertise, & things they have no clue about. It is their personal opinion without any religious context in it, deprived of any sense of reality from the situation. Btw, Kashmir is not a covert war, it has been pretty obvious since 1947 what the Indian Army has done in Kashmir, & what it continues to do today with its 800,000 Army personnel there. That case is specific about a covert war, & there was Pakistani involvement in Kashmir in the past, it isn't involved there anymore.



Wrong. Please read above.



These people clearly have no expertise in politics, yet want to speak about these things. People like Zakir Naik are in no position to comment on these issues. They are clearly sell-outs that do not explicitly condemn Hindutva terrorism, or the terrorism of the Indian state against their own people. They do not wish well for Muslims, especially since most of the "ideological funding" for the Indian Mujahideen & groups like SIMI in the past came from these Ulemas, & it was only recently that they started condemning these attacks, for their own survival in India, not because of any good for Indian Muslims.

A very interesting post indeed.
 
.
What I fail to understand is why Indians think their country's history is thousands of years old, whereas Pakistan's history is "apparently" only 63 years old. Another inherent contradiction in the statements made by Indians that want Pakistan to "embrace their Indian heritage". :azn:

Just goes to show the levels of their obsession, they just can't stop obsessing with everything Pakistan.

You are right.

15 Aug 1947 to be precise.

Thanks for the correction of those who do not understand.

Of course, it is incorrect that some expect that the Indian heritage is embraced.

History starts with the Arab and Persian history.
 
.
WE ALL KNOW THAT JINNAH WAS A RIGHT PERSON
PAKISTAN IS CREATED ON THE BASIS OF TWO NATION THEORY & ON THE BASIS OF ISLAM.MUSLIM NEED A PLATFORM OR A COUNTRY WHERE WE CAN LIVE OUR LIVE ACCORDING TO ISLAM SO AS PAKISTANI AND MUSLIMS TO WE SHOULD FOLLOW ISLAMI SHARIA OR ISLAMIC LAW
 
.
WE ALL KNOW THAT JINNAH WAS A RIGHT PERSON
PAKISTAN IS CREATED ON THE BASIS OF TWO NATION THEORY & ON THE BASIS OF ISLAM.MUSLIM NEED A PLATFORM OR A COUNTRY WHERE WE CAN LIVE OUR LIVE ACCORDING TO ISLAM SO AS PAKISTANI AND MUSLIMS TO WE SHOULD FOLLOW ISLAMI SHARIA OR ISLAMIC LAW

It is getting confusing.

Some say it is the two nation theory and some bring in other historical and religious genesis.

You say it is an Islamic state governed by Sharia and Mr Jinnah stated that Pakistan was to be a secular state!
 
.
Pakistanis embrace "Indian" heritage, or south Asian heritage, to avoid hurting sensibilities.
Our food is similar, our language is similar, our dress is similar, and many of our rituals are similar.
Even our genes are similar.

But it still does not invalidate the fact that Pakistan is a separate country.
 
.
You are right.

15 Aug 1947 to be precise.

Thanks for the correction of those who do not understand.

Of course, it is incorrect that some expect that the Indian heritage is embraced.

History starts with the Arab and Persian history.

No, history starts with the Indus Civilization, which encompasses all of Pakistan & a very small portion of Western parts of India.
 
.
History goes back to the time of Baba Adam!

Or even to the Big Bang (if one subscribes to that theory).
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom