Pakistan-US joint air exercise - Falcon Talon III

[Bilal Khan 777]

Too much being read into a exercise.
The Americans want to exit afgh and are using the carrot and stick policy with Pakistan. So you see all the overtures to the talibans via Pakistan and also these proposed exercises. Also hints that Pakistan might again start receiving military aid.
2ndly people here seriously believe that the present Jf17 is of interest to the Americans ?
And I agree with others here that Americans have realized that India won't play ball against China. Their is no advantage for India in picking fights with more neighbours for vague geopolitical reasons. India will do just enough to keep USA on its side incase of trouble with China as Russia is no more a reliable partner.

I have one thing to say to you. F104 Star Fighter. I have flown one. You haven't even seen one. Check the date it was developed by Skunk Works (been there too), and the date it was given to Pakistan. Now lets not look at anything Pakistan achieves with any importance, and lets bollywood dance on everything you do, even if its a massacre of your own indigenous Muslim population. Gao Muttar, as you will have it.

 

[Windjammer]

I have one thing to say to you. F104 Star Fighter. I have flown one. You haven't even seen one. Check the date it was developed by Skunk Works (been there too), and the date it was given to Pakistan. Now lets not look at anything Pakistan achieves with any importance, and lets bollywood dance on everything you do, even if its a massacre of your own indigenous Muslim population. Gao Muttar, as you will have it.

This might help anyone living in oblivion.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-operating-the-f-104-starfighter-aka-badmash.594377/#post-11065167

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Gatling gun was installed on the Badmash on Pakistans' insistence. Otherwise this platform did not have one!!!

 

[Darwin]

I have one thing to say to you. F104 Star Fighter. I have flown one. You haven't even seen one. Check the date it was developed by Skunk Works (been there too), and the date it was given to Pakistan. Now lets not look at anything Pakistan achieves with any importance, and lets bollywood dance on everything you do, even if its a massacre of your own indigenous Muslim population. Gao Muttar, as you will have it.

A professional means you served ? A pilot means you were a officer.
Reading your answer is quite disappointing.

 

[Raider 21]

A professional means you served ? A pilot means you were a officer.
Reading your answer is quite disappointing.

Truths can be disappointing.

 

[nahtanbob]

Too much being read into a exercise.
The Americans want to exit afgh and are using the carrot and stick policy with Pakistan. So you see all the overtures to the talibans via Pakistan and also these proposed exercises. Also hints that Pakistan might again start receiving military aid.
2ndly people here seriously believe that the present Jf17 is of interest to the Americans ?
And I agree with others here that Americans have realized that India won't play ball against China. Their is no advantage for India in picking fights with more neighbours for vague geopolitical reasons. India will do just enough to keep USA on its side incase of trouble with China as Russia is no more a reliable partner.

for India USA is the most powerful hedge against China. Add in a hostile Pakistan. USA looks even more attractive partner. It helps India that USA and Pakistan do not see eye on eye on a lot of issues

 

[GriffinsRule]

The only thing that interested me when I read about this exercise was the dysfunctional nature of policy within the US government. On one hand, they have curtailed all kinds of govt-to-govt contacts, cut funding for mutually beneficial programs, and even completely removed Pakistan from IMET, their military educational training program. Pakistan has also been removed from programs at the US Naval War College, Naval Staff College etc. And yet, now they see it fit to have a major air force exercise with the supposedly non-ally. I found that funny and am conflicted at some level as to whether PAF should have agreed to it. Yes, there are things we can learn from this exercise, as with any other exercise, yet when taken with the larger dynamic at work, perhaps we should have pushed back on this exercise and let the Pentagon and the Defense Dept sweat it out with the WH and the administration.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

"Falcon's Talon" hmmm....quite an aggressive name for alleged friendly training
Under current circumstances it is best we did a post card communication

Controversial Name of exercise

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

PAF will always be special, brave, and resolute. Long live the Hawks that protect our free skies.

Helal olsun Pasham....

 

[Aamir Hussain]

I have been saying this for a while now....training with another nation's airforce is in our benefit. Who has the most combat experience in airwar? Is it the Chinese, Russians, Turks, or the Americans? They have institutionalized learning from experience as no other nation has to this extent. We train with the best and learn from it and use it to our advantage. They also learn....but does anyone think, who is in their right mind, that we will end up in a direct conflict with USA? I think not unless some fundoo takes over our helm of affairs. And then these aircraft and our standing army would be no good since we would have to resort to guerrilla warfare.

Just to give you some idea...way back in the eighties if i remember it socrrectly, we had a combined training with US Airforce or USN, all our ADA radars were jammed across the board except for two very old Marconi vacuum tube radars that could not be electronically jammed!! We launched against the bandits, blind (As did the Iraqis in first gulf war!) But later on with the help of some old still functional radars managed to set up intercepts of incoming threats!!!

Exercises become routine and dreary if newer dimensions are not added to the scenarios...and one way to do that is operate and exercise with other air forces!! This way you keep the edge sharpened!! My 2C worth.

 

[Raider 21]

The only thing that interested me when I read about this exercise was the dysfunctional nature of policy within the US government. On one hand, they have curtailed all kinds of govt-to-govt contacts, cut funding for mutually beneficial programs, and even completely removed Pakistan from IMET, their military educational training program. Pakistan has also been removed from programs at the US Naval War College, Naval Staff College etc. And yet, now they see it fit to have a major air force exercise with the supposedly non-ally. I found that funny and am conflicted at some level as to whether PAF should have agreed to it. Yes, there are things we can learn from this exercise, as with any other exercise, yet when taken with the larger dynamic at work, perhaps we should have pushed back on this exercise and let the Pentagon and the Defense Dept sweat it out with the WH and the administration.

Has happened before. This time it has been given more media coverage. The exercise is mutual to the point to start re-establishing relations militarily. Finger pointing over past mistakes gets one nowhere other than more headaches and screaming.

 

[Hellfire]

Well said Araz Sahib. Btw Pakistan, when put into such position, did the same with Afghanistan back in the early nineties.

Lot of members here need to grow up I am 55 years old saw the debacle of East Pakistan, Jamat e Islami the darling of US against communism back 50's and 60's. And the lies our leaders spewed out after 71' about how US let us down. When infact it was far from the truth...they saved what was left of the rest of Pakistan. Indira was on a high and wanted to go to guns on the western borders too, in earnest.

Very few people know that China, both in 65' and 71' did not help us much. They advised us to go for guerrilla warfare after we are defeated by the Indian in 65'!! In 71' they refused to move their divisions to the border with India in fear that USSR might move onto them. Thus Indian army used its mountain divisions taken off of Northern borders and pushed them into Chittagong hill tract as locals.

The fingering in Afghanistan which led to the invasion of Afghanistan by USSR was instigated by MR. Bhutto. We knew Rabbani, Burhani Hikmatyar and Ahmed Shah Masoud way before the invasion!!!

The list goes on....The real face of thnigs is a lot different from what we see here on this forum. A lot of folks here need to grow up, read history from a lot different angles and then come to terms on what is fact an what is fiction.

65' was a disaster. We read the whole thing wrong and when US did not react the way we had predicted, wrongly, we got mad at them!! We predicted that India would not cross the International border, they did. We predicted that the Kashmirs would rise up support the incursion, they did not do as predicted despite ground intel gathered by SSG's who infiltrated in IOK that there is not popular ground swell!!!

Why blame others for our own inadequacies as leaders and as a cohesive and vibrant nation. Always believing in "sazishes" as convenient scapegoat for our own failures.

Very insightful. And pragmatic.

Alas, the sanity is missing here.

@Joe Shearer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well said Araz Sahib. Btw Pakistan, when put into such position, did the same with Afghanistan back in the early nineties.

Lot of members here need to grow up I am 55 years old saw the debacle of East Pakistan, Jamat e Islami the darling of US against communism back 50's and 60's. And the lies our leaders spewed out after 71' about how US let us down. When infact it was far from the truth...they saved what was left of the rest of Pakistan. Indira was on a high and wanted to go to guns on the western borders too, in earnest.

Very few people know that China, both in 65' and 71' did not help us much. They advised us to go for guerrilla warfare after we are defeated by the Indian in 65'!! In 71' they refused to move their divisions to the border with India in fear that USSR might move onto them. Thus Indian army used its mountain divisions taken off of Northern borders and pushed them into Chittagong hill tract as locals.

The fingering in Afghanistan which led to the invasion of Afghanistan by USSR was instigated by MR. Bhutto. We knew Rabbani, Burhani Hikmatyar and Ahmed Shah Masoud way before the invasion!!!

The list goes on....The real face of thnigs is a lot different from what we see here on this forum. A lot of folks here need to grow up, read history from a lot different angles and then come to terms on what is fact an what is fiction.

65' was a disaster. We read the whole thing wrong and when US did not react the way we had predicted, wrongly, we got mad at them!! We predicted that India would not cross the International border, they did. We predicted that the Kashmirs would rise up support the incursion, they did not do as predicted despite ground intel gathered by SSG's who infiltrated in IOK that there is not popular ground swell!!!

Why blame others for our own inadequacies as leaders and as a cohesive and vibrant nation. Always believing in "sazishes" as convenient scapegoat for our own failures.

The voice of truth.

If an Indian spoke so frankly about Indian policies or about Indian leaders, he (or she) would immediately be pilloried by other patriotic Indians who invented patriotism.

My respect, Sir.

 

[Darwin]

The voice of truth.

If an Indian spoke so frankly about Indian policies or about Indian leaders, he (or she) would immediately be pilloried by other patriotic Indians who invented patriotism.

My respect, Sir.

It is possible to admire someone without putting your own country down to play to the galleries.

And he is not fully correct, esp about 1971. India had absolutely no plan to occupy large parts of West Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is possible to admire someone without putting your own country down to play to the galleries.

Yes, it is. Your point being? I have not seen you around when I was telling belligerent Pakistanis where to get off when they picked on India. Where were you then? Lurking with good intentions?

What is more, you are not aware of what has been going on elsewhere. I suggest that you acquire a fully-rounded picture before leaping to comment.

It is possible to admire someone without putting your own country down to play to the galleries.

And he is not fully correct, esp about 1971. India had absolutely no plan to occupy large parts of West Pakistan.

Tell HIM that, not me.