Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[wiseone2]

You dont get it do you?
When the US invited Turkiye to the F-35 program,did that mean that Turkiye had the technology to contribute in any hichtech way to the program?
Allies invite each other to join future military programs,it will reduce costs,further cooperation between allies,send a message,help each other out etc,its a natural thing.
Btw,both Japan and Korea have their own programs,Turkiye wanted to join the Korean program but the Koreans didnt want to share the tech so Turkiye didnt join.

USA has not shared F-35 secrets even with the tier partners in the F-35 program

A European standard 5th gen fighter in Pakistani hands will cause excess sweating in a few countries who like to maintain a tech advantage be it in South Asia or even the Middle East...after reading some of the comments above.

try buying a 4th generation fighter with your own funds

 

[Nefarious]

USA has not shared F-35 secrets even with the tier partners in the F-35 program



try buying a 4th generation fighter with your own funds

WE fly TYPHOONS. YOU should TRY to TROLL somewhere ELSE.

 

[wiseone2]

WE fly TYPHOONS. YOU should TRY to TROLL somewhere ELSE.

i was talking about some country in South Asia

 

[Fenrir]

USA has not shared F-35 secrets even with the tier partners in the F-35 program

What secrets would these be? Radar frequencies and range? Performance? Avionics and electronic support measures? All know metrics.

Would these secrets be the formula for the baked-in RAM coating of the F-35's skin? Norway manufactures it. How to manufacture the F-35's various parts of machining tools and techniques? It's a collaborative effort on the part of over a dozen nations.

What exactly are these secrets that the US isn't sharing?

 

[wiseone2]

What secrets would these be? Radar frequencies and range? Performance? Avionics and electronic support measures? All know metrics.

Would these secrets be the formula for the baked-in RAM coating of the F-35's skin? Norway manufactures it. How to manufacture the F-35's various parts of machining tools and techniques? It's a collaborative effort on the part of over a dozen nations.

What exactly are these secrets that the US isn't sharing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement#Participation_and_orders

Read the following paragraph
"Turkey, like other partner nations, has complained about the United States refusal to share the software source code for the F-35.[182][183] On 24 March 2011 Turkey announced it is placing its order for 100 jets on hold due to the ongoing source code refusal issue. Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül said that the negotiations for access to the F-35 source codes, including codes that can be used to control the aircraft remotely, had not yielded "satisfactory results" and that under these conditions Turkey could not accept the aircraft.[184]

In April 2012, Turkey suggested that program costs could be reduced by outsourcing more production to Turkish defense and aerospace companies, which operate with lower labour costs compared to their counterparts in the U.S. and other partner countries of the project.[185]"

 

[Fenrir]

Read the following paragraph
"Turkey, like other partner nations, has complained about the United States refusal to share the software source code for the F-35.[182][183] On 24 March 2011 Turkey announced it is placing its order for 100 jets on hold due to the ongoing source code refusal issue. Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül said that the negotiations for access to the F-35 source codes, including codes that can be used to control the aircraft remotely, had not yielded "satisfactory results" and that under these conditions Turkey could not accept the aircraft.[184]

That disallows nations from maintaining the aircraft on their own, but doesn't compromise the performance of the aircraft - continuing with the article you posted:

The UK specifically indicated they might cancel its entire order of F-35s without access to the coding, without which the nation will be unable to maintain its own aircraft. Allen Sens, a defense analyst at the University of British Columbia stated in November 2009: "What has happened is really quite unusual because we're talking about some of America's very close allies. You would have thought they could build in some maintenance codes that could be accessible to their allies." Sens indicated that the decision could be as a result of concerns about software security and also pressure from Congress to protect jobs in the US.

The US has shared technical secrets, performance and usage best practices, machining tools and techniques, but for commercial reasons is withholding the source codes for some systems which the US services. Remember, the F-35 is a joint collaboration that sees multiple maintenance hubs build in partner nations around the world. To allow them to make use of this system, source codes must be given for the parts that those nations are servicing.

This is a rather limited case that's more commercial in natures and about US protectionism when you start to look deeper into the case.

 

[wiseone2]

It has already been stated on numerous occasions that Turkey is enlisting the support of BAE (irrespective of Pakistan) for lead technical support. Are you suggesting that Turkey, with its proven experience in managing complex programs, reasonably sound funding ability, and BAE will not be able to bring this program to fruition?

Secondly, why would you assume that Pakistan would be an indispensable supporter? Not every JSF funding partner was integral to the success of the program. I think 10% in terms of development funding and actual unit acquisition for even Pakistan is plausible.

BAE would require approvals from Pentagon to allow Pakistan access to the project
it ain't going to happen

That disallows nations from maintaining the aircraft on their own, but doesn't compromise the performance of the aircraft - continuing with the article you posted:

The UK specifically indicated they might cancel its entire order of F-35s without access to the coding, without which the nation will be unable to maintain its own aircraft. Allen Sens, a defense analyst at the University of British Columbia stated in November 2009: "What has happened is really quite unusual because we're talking about some of America's very close allies. You would have thought they could build in some maintenance codes that could be accessible to their allies." Sens indicated that the decision could be as a result of concerns about software security and also pressure from Congress to protect jobs in the US.

The US has shared technical secrets, performance and usage best practices, machining tools and techniques, but for commercial reasons is withholding the source codes for some systems which the US services. Remember, the F-35 is a joint collaboration that sees multiple maintenance hubs build in partner nations around the world. To allow them to make use of this system, source codes must be given for the parts that those nations are servicing.

This is a rather limited case that's more commercial in natures and about US protectionism when you start to look deeper into the case.

building a 5th generation fighter is not a walk in the park
some of the restrictions are motivated by commercial reasons
some aren't

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

BAE would require approvals from Pentagon to allow Pakistan access to the project
it ain't going to happen

That is understandable if IP from the F-35 was being transferred or if BAE Systems' subsidiary in the U.S. is to be involved in the program. It does not appear that either is a factor with the TFX at this time, unless you have evidence to demonstrate otherwise.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Korea's experience in building fighter jets?
Japan's experience in building fighter jets?
Just because many "advanced nations" have not started their own 5 gen program, doesn't mean that they dont have the ability to do it.
The problem in the west is bureaucracy which has a worse effect on such programs as corruption does in developing nations.

They also said these things when Pakistan was building the nukes. We all know how that ended.

Pakistan should join the Turkish 5th gen project and even involve China if possible. Get some sort of consortium going. It will be a win for all parties involved.

 

[Darth Vader]

What secrets would these be? Radar frequencies and range? Performance? Avionics and electronic support measures? All know metrics.

Would these secrets be the formula for the baked-in RAM coating of the F-35's skin? Norway manufactures it. How to manufacture the F-35's various parts of machining tools and techniques? It's a collaborative effort on the part of over a dozen nations.

What exactly are these secrets that the US isn't sharing?

Glem alt det
If They have Indian Flag and Topic is Something Good For Pakistan No , Majority of Indian Members Will Come Up with Such Claims even the Aliens Will Go nuts

They Seem to Forget That F35 Was a joint Project and The Secrets hes Talking about is the Alien Tech Used in F35 which is so advance punny Humans like us Wont be able to understand it or The we might End up creating Yoga Powered Space Ship

Coming Back to the Point Some one needs to enlighten him that when Such projects are started the Partners discuss the capabilities and system which will be used in the product and how the end user will be able to use them and What are the limits , List Goes and on and But Who are we trying to educate .... No Point in wasting Time on BS

 

[maximuswarrior]

i was talking about some country in South Asia

Too afraid to call the country by its name? Why so secretive?

 

[maximuswarrior]

A European standard 5th gen fighter in Pakistani hands will cause excess sweating in a few countries who like to maintain a tech advantage be it in South Asia or even the Middle East...after reading some of the comments above.

You know how desperate things are when people from certain countries start discouraging you from joining a certain project. This discouragement should serve as a motivation to go one step further. The discouragement serves as a reminder and gauge that the idea of joining the Turkish 5th gen project is very sound and fruitful.

 

[wiseone2]

You know how desperate things are when people from certain countries start discouraging you from joining a certain project. This discouragement should serve as a motivation to go one step further. The discouragement serves as a reminder and gauge that the idea of joining the Turkish 5th gen project is very sound.

i have no comment on turkish 5th generation project. when countries like Russia and China are sweating out to build one it is not easy for turkey to build one

 

[royalharris]

You know how desperate things are when people from certain countries start discouraging you from joining a certain project. This discouragement should serve as a motivation to go one step further. The discouragement serves as a reminder and gauge that the idea of joining the Turkish 5th gen project is very sound.

It is parkistan's selection, right or wrong, gain or loss,it is parkistan's bussiness.others can have a opinion, but no need discourage it.
Except USA(F22/F35),China(J20 initial production;FC 31 2.0 prototype),russia(T50, prototype), the others, basiclly speaking, all the same, every country have the potential. but remenber potential is not reality.
Don’t overestimate yourself, Don't underestimate yourself.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

@DavidSling @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

As You Guys Keep repeating How Turkey will be able to pull this off and Reason Behind Pakistan in the project

Bae Is the which will help . Turkey is not inventing Worlds First Plane , years of experience from F16 yes it is 4th generation plane but they have years of hands on experience from repairing to upgrading Than Comes F35
Major part is engine which is coming from third seller
Smaller systems are already in the market or Turkey and Pakistan are already making it or getting it from 3rd sellers EU , China

Now about Pakistan , Pakistan isn't just there for the funds yes every penny helps but you are talking about future as when China did with thunder
Now same is Turkey trying to do what will Pakistan bring in the game
1st access of Chinese systems which are for 5th gen birds , access to future Chinese systems
E.g chendgu close relation with Pac and there next 5th generation bird and Pakistan can pave the way so they can be involved in this or future JV
2nd Pakistans Knowledge of Building a 4th generation capable air craft if You take out Uncle Sam , and Eu how many friends in the world Turkey have which are making 4th generation air crafts on which can really trust
3 Future even if this project doest work it will give Turkey and Pakistans indusrties huge boost and access to different modern systems which will help in future JVs and can start working on other JVs e.g projects for navy and army

Bottom line- whatever defence products Turkey produces ultimately get into Pak hands. JVs are to take it the next level- there's nothing more rational than that..