Pakistan to Kerry: We are worried about India

[Finer]

Call it dumped if you consider yourself a dumping ground. Others would do two things - accept that a problem exists & then deal with it.

Pakistan as the world sees it has only one mess to deal with - its internal decision making.

USA acknowledged the problem, Pakistan acknowledged the problem, but it is India that is having trouble to acknowledge the stances of Pakistan and USA.

 

[acid rain]

@acid rain

I am guessing those million kashmiris were killed by Indian soldiers disappeared out of nowhere? Like i said, stop following Indian media.

What part of "USA leaving the mess on Pakistan" don't you understand?

Pakistan is the one dealing with the mess ever since 80's. Whether it is peace treaty, madrassah, terrorism, you mention it.

You tell me??

Where did the millions of Kashmiris killed according to you disappear? Where is the report claiming this fantastical fantasy that is taught in every madrasseh and every terrorist camp in pakistan?
Every mullah and terrorist in pakistan claims that millions of Muslims have been killed by IA...now show me the proof - and not some nonsensical pakistani jihadi media report please.

Now, let me ask you a question...how many civilians did PA kill over the years in FATA and baluchistan?

Remember that PA uses artillery, gunships, tanks, bombers, fighter jets, drones and ground troops on these people.

Now compare that with kashmir and show one incident where IA has used any of those on our people.

Pakistan is dealing with the mess because pakistan created the mess. As I pointed out, it's pakistan that uses mujjis for its proxy games. It's pakistan that controls and operates the taliban, though with limited success because rats and snakes will remain rats and snakes.

 

[third eye]

USA acknowledged the problem, Pakistan acknowledged the problem, but it is India that is having trouble to acknowledge the stances of Pakistan and USA.

So long as Pak differentiates between good & bad Taliban it has not accepted the problem it has created for itself.

 

[Bratva]

Which weapons?

Last year bust. One of many shipments coming from Afghan side captured in recent years !

Weapons and explosives recovered near Pak-Afghan border

So long as Pak differentiates between good & bad Taliban it has not accepted the problem it has created for itself.

Under whose patronage Taliban office functioning in Qatar? America or Pakistan ? Whose conducting Army op in N.Waziristan, America or Pakistan?

Stop living in delusions Pakistan differentiate b/w Good or bad Taliban

 

[MilSpec]

Last year bust. One of many shipments coming from Afghan side captured in recent years !

Weapons and explosives recovered near Pak-Afghan border

No Insas, Tavors? Why would india supply "kalakov" the darra assembled aksu 74 or even standard PA issue G3's?
From the firearms itself, it looks more like ISI's doings

 

[Bratva]

No Insas, Tavors? Why would india supply "kalakov" the darra assembled aksu 74 or even standard PA issue G3's?
From the firearms itself, it looks more like ISI's doings

Sandy did Pakistan supplied Afghan rebels with made in Pakistan weapons during 80's ? We have to buy russian weapons from Israel so to keep up the demand, not to mention the standard Soviet Army issue Ak-47's rebels used !

A common sense technique used in proxy wars.

 

[MilSpec]

Sandy did Pakistan supplied Afghan rebels with made in Pakistan weapons during 80's ? We have to buy russian weapons from Israel so to keep up the demand, not to mention the standard Soviet Army issue Ak-47's rebels used !

A common sense technique used in proxy wars.

You do have a point there. (Although egyptian captured soviet small arms were sourced by US and not pakistan)

Putting in context, let assume for a second your claim is absolutely right, say foreign agencies are supplying weapons, the question then is who is the end user, why is it so easy to hire people in pakistan to carry out sabotage-suicide missions on a blink of the eye. Isn't this the infrastructure promulgated by ISI to be used in Afghanistan and India to begin with. So even if your contention is considered valid, the end user in this case is not some infantry battalion of the indian army dressed as balochs operating inside the balochistan. These are all your own homegrown fighters willing to do operate for the highest bidder. These are not Raw or Mossad assets, these are absolutely your own guys.

Training contention; somewhere somebody claimed dozens of afghan camps training terrorists, I am sure pakistan if is serious about curbing terror ca seal the border, with Afghanistan, and with dismal state of afghan military it wont b hard for pakistan to conduct strikes or even hot pursuit for these alleged camps, then why doesn't it. It's not like afghan military is providing cover fire for terrorists to cross over. In Contrast India's commitment to fight terrorism is fierce, hence the deployment in the kashmir and punjab to ensure threat mitigation from both symmetric and asymmetric threats posed by actors in Pakistan (which is quite difficult to tell apart sometimes)

On the weaponry recovered, we have often recovered Chinese made AK's, RPD's and POF marked grenades from terrorists, so I guess common sense is not as common. Also why are firearms so easily trafficked in pakistan? why would a 67 year old country turn a blind eye to a illicit arms trafficking and manufacturing and not regulate it?

I am sure the MB retort will come from someone, if not from you, but do remember MB was armed by IA, yes, but also disbanded, disarmed by the same IA.... so why did Pakistan did not do the same for afghanistan. Nagibullah and Rabbni government was unilaterally bought down by pakistan, for what, what business did you have there after communist departure. You played the pashtun favoritism and picking and choosing warlords to support. why? what was the security threat you faced from a najibullah government.

So before you go blaming others for your problems, introspect what you have done to solve them on your own.

 

[Bratva]

You do have a point there. (Although egyptian captured soviet small arms were sourced by US and not pakistan)

Putting in context, let assume for a second your claim is absolutely right, say foreign agencies are supplying weapons, the question then is who is the end user, why is it so easy to hire people in pakistan to carry out sabotage-suicide missions on a blink of the eye. Isn't this the infrastructure promulgated by ISI to be used in Afghanistan and India to begin with. So even if your contention is considered valid, the end user in this case is not some infantry battalion of the indian army dressed as balochs operating inside the balochistan. These are all your own homegrown fighters willing to do operate for the highest bidder. These are not Raw or Mossad assets, these are absolutely your own guys.

In proxy wars blame lies on both parties. Insurgencies erupt in those regions where state organs neglected the population and extreme economic depravity exist.You could buy people easily. You would have an idea, what people can do for Money or to keep .Let's say If Pakistan decide to support Maoists or Assam rebels in future, would you blame Pakistan solely ? Correct me, I've read there exist genuine problems and state negligence/exploitation of those areas where maoists are active. Similar grievances that of Balochistan. Pakistan was able to exploit Kashmir issue because local population was and is still anti India and there were genuine problems before insurgency began (Something to do with maqbool bhat and poor economic conditions). Your army heavy handedness exacerbated the problem and made things easy for us.

The point is argument of yours is circular. Blame will travel in circle forever and can't be placed on one party shoulder.

Training contention; somewhere somebody claimed dozens of afghan camps training terrorists, I am sure pakistan if is serious about curbing terror ca seal the border, with Afghanistan, and with dismal state of afghan military it wont b hard for pakistan to conduct strikes or even hot pursuit for these alleged camps, then why doesn't it. It's not like afghan military is providing cover fire for terrorists to cross over. In Contrast India's commitment to fight terrorism is fierce, hence the deployment in the kashmir and punjab to ensure threat mitigation from both symmetric and asymmetric threats posed by actors in Pakistan (which is quite difficult to tell apart sometimes)

The area on the other side of afghanistan is not plain. There is a reason US army pulled out from Nuristan and Kunar province in 2010. The mountainous region is treacherous. Taking example of turkey and PKK problem. Were they able to finish PKK? No because of the mountainous regions b/w IRAQ and Turkey.



In contrast Punjab is completely plain while Kashmir Border is quite plain hence manageable and you could do hot pursuits in such areas quite easily but not in mountainous regions which require resources that of US ARMY.

If you has time, read this piece of history, Spetznaz tried to do a hot pursuits and failed

Forbidden Vendetta: Spetsnaz strike into Pakistan during soviet Afghan War

And about the airstrikes, We have either Cobra which doesn't have long legs or F-16. To conduct surgical strikes on time, we need drones. who could stay over head for 24 hr, survey the place and strike immediately. While our surveillance assets (C-130, or saab erieye cant hover on afghanistan area for extended period of time) or human intel which should be present on ground in Afghanistan are non existence. So airstrikes are out of question on timely basis because enemy is always on the move in kunar and nuristan.

Then the question comes about resources, Can you think mountainous border can be effectively monitored and secured by a 3rd world country, facing funding issues, running on aid and loan money most of the time ?

On the weaponry recovered, we have often recovered Chinese made AK's, RPD's and POF marked grenades from terrorists, so I guess common sense is not as common. Also why are firearms so easily trafficked in pakistan? why would a 67 year old country turn a blind eye to a illicit arms trafficking and manufacturing and not regulate it?

Has BSF managed to effectively stop alleged drug flow from Pakistan to India despite being one of the best managed border areas and plain region? Or to that effect has America able to stop Mexican drug cartels supply in to America ? It's mountainous area we are talking about here in AF-PAK region plus 3rd world country cash strapped Pakistan is . There is a reason Iran remains quite frustrated with us on Border situation. because Pakistan has to prioritize at which border region money should go and managing afghanistan border drains away most of the money.

I am sure the MB retort will come from someone, if not from you, but do remember MB was armed by IA, yes, but also disbanded, disarmed by the same IA.... so why did Pakistan did not do the same for afghanistan. Nagibullah and Rabbni government was unilaterally bought down by pakistan, for what, what business did you have there after communist departure. You played the pashtun favoritism and picking and choosing warlords to support. why? what was the security threat you faced from a najibullah government.

Can you disarm Texans at will ? Texans and Pashtuns are quite similar when it comes to weapons, Both wear it as their jewellery. Isn't Texas most heavily weaponized state of America . Can you disarm groups in texas ? Now moving away from individual level. Let me quote wikipedia here

During his tenure as leader of Afghanistan, the Soviets began their withdrawal, and from 1989 until 1992, his government tried to solve the ongoing civil war without Soviet troops on the ground. While direct Soviet assistance ended with the withdrawal, the Soviet Union still supported Najibullah with economic and military aid, while the United States continued its support for the mujahideen. Throughout his tenure, he tried to build support for his government. Najibullah even tried to portray his government as Islamic, and in the 1990 constitution the country officially became an Islamic state and all references of communism were removed. This change, coupled with others, did not win Najibullah any significant support. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union in December 1991, Najibullah was left without foreign aid. This, coupled with the internal collapse of his government, led to his ousting from power in April 1992. Najibullah lived in the United Nations headquarters in Kabul until 1996

Najibullah was commie and he would have started proxy wars to get revenge if his government had become stabilized

We chose pashtun card so Afghanistan won't try to instigate proxy wars over durand line. Incase you don't know, from 1950's right up to 70's before rusian invasion, Afghanistan instigated and supported Pashtunistan movement so whole KPK province can become part of afghanistan. they tried to invade Pakistan in 60's. We needed a group who should keep a neutral stance on durand line. Just like You felt compelled to interfere in Sri Lanka so your Tamil nadu state remain unaffected

 

[MilSpec]

In proxy wars blame lies on both parties. Insurgencies erupt in those regions where state organs neglected the population and extreme economic depravity exist.You could buy people easily. You would have an idea, what people can do for Money or to keep .Let's say If Pakistan decide to support Maoists or Assam rebels in future, would you blame Pakistan solely ? Correct me, I've read there exist genuine problems and state negligence/exploitation of those areas where maoists are active. Similar grievances that of Balochistan. Pakistan was able to exploit Kashmir issue because local population was and is still anti India and there were genuine problems before insurgency began (Something to do with maqbool bhat and poor economic conditions). Your army heavy handedness exacerbated the problem and made things easy for us.

The point is argument of yours is circular. Blame will travel in circle forever and can't be placed on one party shoulder.




The area on the other side of afghanistan is not plain. There is a reason US army pulled out from Nuristan and Kunar province in 2010. The mountainous region is treacherous. Taking example of turkey and PKK problem. Were they able to finish PKK? No because of the mountainous regions b/w IRAQ and Turkey.



In contrast Punjab is completely plain while Kashmir Border is quite plain hence manageable and you could do hot pursuits in such areas quite easily but not in mountainous regions which require resources that of US ARMY.

If you has time, read this piece of history, Spetznaz tried to do a hot pursuits and failed

Forbidden Vendetta: Spetsnaz strike into Pakistan during soviet Afghan War

And about the airstrikes, We have either Cobra which doesn't have long legs or F-16. To conduct surgical strikes on time, we need drones. who could stay over head for 24 hr, survey the place and strike immediately. While our surveillance assets (C-130, or saab erieye cant hover on afghanistan area for extended period of time) or human intel which should be present on ground in Afghanistan are non existence. So airstrikes are out of question on timely basis because enemy is always on the move in kunar and nuristan.

Then the question comes about resources, Can you think mountainous border can be effectively monitored and secured by a 3rd world country, facing funding issues, running on aid and loan money most of the time ?





Has BSF managed to effectively stop alleged drug flow from Pakistan to India despite being one of the best managed border areas and plain region? Or to that effect has America able to stop Mexican drug cartels supply in to America ? It's mountainous area we are talking about here in AF-PAK region plus 3rd world country cash strapped Pakistan is . There is a reason Iran remains quite frustrated with us on Border situation. because Pakistan has to prioritize at which border region money should go and managing afghanistan border drains away most of the money.



Can you disarm Texans at will ? Texans and Pashtuns are quite similar when it comes to weapons, Both wear it as their jewellery. Isn't Texas most heavily weaponized state of America . Can you disarm groups in texas ? Now moving away from individual level. Let me quote wikipedia here



Najibullah was commie and he would have started proxy wars to get revenge if his government had become stabilized

We chose pashtun card so Afghanistan won't try to instigate proxy wars over durand line. Incase you don't know, from 1950's right up to 70's before rusian invasion, Afghanistan instigated and supported Pashtunistan movement so whole KPK province can become part of afghanistan. they tried to invade Pakistan in 60's. We needed a group who should keep a neutral stance on durand line. Just like You felt compelled to interfere in Sri Lanka so your Tamil nadu state remain unaffected

As you said the argument is circular, let me ask you pointed question.

Has Pakistan been honest is curbing militant mentality that it's own agencies promulgated.