Pakistan to Kerry: We are worried about India

[karan.1970]

So anything other than hearsay which can be proven infront of Law ?

Come and talk about proving in front of law once you start trying the folks you are killing in bombing runs in KPK. Wars are not decided in court of law.

 

[krishnathealien]

Kerry to Pakistan : We are worried about Pakistan

 

[Kinetic]

ISLAMABAD: The US Secretary of State, John Kerry, will be wrapping up his second visit to India in the last six months as he lands in Pakistan on Monday (today). By the time he would have left that country, America’s top diplomat would have spent a good amount of time with Prime Minister Narendra Modi, first at an investor summit and then during an advance meeting for the upcoming trip of President Barack Obama to New Delhi on India’s Republic Day, scheduled for later this month.



Surely, those interactions will grant Kerry critical content to communicate with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and National Security Adviser Sartaj Aziz as they meet bilaterally and then for dinner on Monday, even as the CENTCOM commander, General Lloyd Austin, Kerry’s military wingman, accompanies him to conduct the yet unannounced meeting with Pakistan’s new ‘military diplomat’ and army chief General Raheel Sharif.



However, an appraisal of the mood of Pakistan’s defence and foreign policy regimes indicates serious concerns both about New Delhi as well Washington’s role in the region, as Islamabad is forced to move from its policy of a “strategic pause” with India to a more productive effort to balance its eastern neighbour.



For once, Pakistan’s soldiers and diplomats seem to be on the same page about the India issue: Modi’s RSS-centric right-wing posturing, the declaredly hawkish policies of his tough National Security Adviser, the former Intelligence Bureau director Ajeet Doval, and the clear escalation of tensions on the border, as engagements moved from the Line of Control to the Working Boundary during 2014 (with the Pakistani military claiming 49 violations in 2013 versus 81 violations in 2014 by India on the Working Boundary, compared to over 350 violations on the LoC in 2013 versus around 250 in 2014 which, when matched against India’s counterclaims of violations, clearly show an alarming trend to fight it out on the mainland while decreasing engagements in Kashmir).



In fact, the recent trip to Washington by top Ministry of Defence officials was not just about settling on a mechanism for post Kerry-Lugar-Berman Bill financial arrangements and arrears management of the Coalition Support Funds, but also about measuring the mood inside the Beltway for Islamabad’s growing concerns about New Delhi.



One idea that has been discussed informally with Washington has been about some kind of a non-aggression pact with India, underwritten by the US, which lets Pakistan focus on the anti-terror campaign in the frontier regions and, increasingly, in its urban areas. Otherwise, a senior MoD official assessed, given India’s conventional military advantage and posturing on the Working Boundary, less the Line of Control, as well as the Pakistani military’s increasing commitments out west, “we fight India the only way we know how…by hook or by crook.”



It’s highly unlikely that Washington would push for such an arrangement, even though the noises out of the State Department of late have been more nuanced when it comes to the Indo-Pak narrative, obviously to balance the US’s own strategic interests in the region.



As for the visit itself, the stated positions and agenda are not remarkably new; the Americans say they want to discuss counterterror operations following the Peshawar attack, the broader effort against all militant/terror groups (not just Al Qaeda and the Haqqanis, but also Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Quetta Shura) based in Pakistan, Afghanistan-Pakistan security and trade and the broader regional environment with India and Pakistan.



The Pakistanis have been officially bland about describing the purpose of the meeting, labeling the huddle as bureaucrat-centric, focused on the five working groups going through yet another round of the grinding bilateral strategic dialogue.



But privately, Pakistani officials in and out of uniform are deeply worried about India, and in particular, Narendra Modi. A senior official at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the government is especially concerned about India’s recent letter-writing campaign at the United Nations, where documentation and clippings are being shared with the UN officials about Pakistan’s allegedly active role in protecting terrorists who are a threat to Indian stability. The move, in the context of the Peshawar school attack and the subsequent global sympathy for Pakistan being a victim of terrorism, as described by the Pentagon spokesperson recently, is being seen with clear skepticism in Islamabad.



While “the terrorist state narrative of the 1990s and 2000s is not being pursued” by New Delhi, said the official, this is a “diplomatic offensive meant to taint Pakistan’s recent gains in Waziristan against terrorism.”



The presence of the UN Secretary General during the Vibrant Gujarat investor conference this last weekend in Ahmadabad didn’t help restore the Pakistani confidence, even though the official claimed that “if the Americans don’t, China, and maybe even Russia, see the light when it comes to curbing India at the UN.”



Alarmingly, the official assessed, “a probable failure of the diplomatic offensive at the UN would still be counted as a win by India to make another, aggressive case…perhaps for a limited ground or air incursion by, say, targeting Muridke [the headquarters of the LeT/Jamaat-ud-Dawa]”, which would clearly embarrass Pakistan. This argument is a buildup from MOFA on the recent statement by Minister of Defence Khawaja Asif, when he claimed that India wants to engage Pakistan “in a low-intensity war”. Thus, Pakistan’s diplomats are asking: Could Modi’s India establish grounds, both for itself and the world, for a limited war if its moves at the UN to hurt Pakistan fail?



Also, if India strikes Pakistan, on the above listed premise of failed diplomacy, or even a much war-gamed Mumbai-like terrorist attack, what happens? Given Pakistan’s infamous civil-military divide, it’s not entirely clear to Pakistan’s civilian administrators what Pakistan’s official and military responses would be. “Escalation? The nuclear option? Tit for tat responses? India is playing with fire with an increasingly tied down Pakistani military,” said the senior diplomat.



Kerry’s visit also comes at the heels of the recent ‘Terror Boat’ episode in which the Indian Coast Guard claimed to have apprehended a Pakistani boat near the coast of Indian State of Gujarat. The Indian media initially speculated that the boat was on its way to conduct another Mumbai-like terror attack. Even after conflicting reports on the nature of the dramatic incident – the boat either caught fire or exploded – as it appeared in the Indian media, the Indian Defence Minister, Manohar Parrikar has continued to insist that people on the boat were terrorists and not smugglers.



A Pakistani Foreign Ministry official drew parallels between the strange ‘Terror Boat’ incident and the Chattisinghpura, Kashmir massacre of 2000 in which 34 Sikhs were killed. The massacre occurred on the same day when the then US President Bill Clinton was visiting India. The Indian government blamed Pakistan for the butchery but an official investigation by the [Indian] Punjab Human Rights Organization and the [Indian] Movement Against State Repression later indicated that “Pakistan had nothing to gain by ordering militants/mercenaries to massacre Sikhs in the Kashmir Valley”.



It further noted that the “Indian leaders however, gained substantial mileage from this incident as a spate of international sympathy was forthcoming.”



Noting that the Indian media as well as the government officials were quick to point fingers at Pakistan even then, the Foreign Ministry official suggested that the Indian media’s coverage as well as the official statements on the ‘Terror Boat’ incident may show a “similar attempt to malign Pakistan just when an important US dignitary is visiting the region”.

Pakistan to Kerry: We are worried about India - thenews.com.pk

Its looking silly now.

If I were a Pakistani and / or if I were in a position of decision making I would be a very worried man.

Internationally Pakistan's problems have become inversely proportional to India's acceptance.

Why would US want to underwrite a non aggression pact with India ? Why would US want Pakistan to be ' free' to look at one border only ? .. and why would India want to ' ease' the pressure on Pakistan / PA ?

What has Pak done to expect such bon hommie from India ?

The chest thumping, Jihad & Nukes have not helped , everything is out in the open. Each attack internally serves to further expose the inability within to control affairs which are slipping .

Yes , I would be a worried man.

In every article there is two word, nuclear and jihad. They cannot write single one without this two. GROW UP.

What happens if another 26/11 like attack takes place. Do you expect the U.S. to stop India from going all out this time?

@karan.1970
India doesn't gain anything from fighting with Pakistan, as its much smaller but for Pakistan its different. Kashmir as they say is the root, they know they cannot take Kashmir so there will not be any peace with India result.... something anti-India. Think like this if tomorrow Texas, New Maxico and Arizona become a independent nation what it will need to form the national integrity? Its hard core anti-American.

The same thing happening here. This also feeds they vast army.

So its a never ending fight.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

Yep Pakistan surely do have an evidence, and unlike your blabbering & whining - to which US doesn't pays a heed, some people do see it as concrete enough -
A part of the evidence was tabled to Mr.Ashraf Ghani during the meeting with ISAF Commander and our COAS -
but unlike India, Pakistan is acting maturely and not getting down the childish rhetoric.
India's financial support to TTP and Anti Pakistan elements is no more a secret among. Black funds are transfered to NDS / Afghan Intel, that helps TTP to sustain its growth & provides them with Weapons from Black market -Pakistani leadership now. And we have shown restraint, just because we do not want to escalate the situation that could bring instability in the region - If Pakistan was such a terror state then care to elaborate why was it not declared a Terror state during Kerry's recent visit?

pakistan do have evidence?? then where is it? iif they have shown the evidence to ISAF then why don't ISAF said anything about it?? why don't they warn india for it?? are they afraid of india!!??
which people see it as a concrete enough?? pakistani politicians??
pakistan act maturely!!?? did they ever act maturely?? if there was any evidence then pakistan wold have jumped all over it. pakistan is not hiding any evidence from public, they don't have any evidence to show, that is why your SA is doing a publicity media stunt.
noting is concrete, i already said you why pakistan is blaming india. if the fund is transferred to afghanis then US will surely find it out and they can warn india, but they never did, that means there is noting like Indian support to TTP... it all pakistani propaganda for hiding the truth. pakistan is not stable in its entaire history. either in the form of military takeover the civilins government or terror related problems.
pakistan didn't declare as a terrorist state because the US need pakistan to transport their men and equipment into Afghanistan. once they are out of afghanistan then you can face the US anger and deceleration of pakistan as a terrorist state.

 

[Amaa'n]

pakistan do have evidence?? then where is it? iif they have shown the evidence to ISAF then why don't ISAF said anything about it?? why don't they warn india for it?? are they afraid of india!!??
which people see it as a concrete enough?? pakistani politicians??
pakistan act maturely!!?? did they ever act maturely?? if there was any evidence then pakistan wold have jumped all over it. pakistan is not hiding any evidence from public, they don't have any evidence to show, that is why your SA is doing a publicity media stunt.
noting is concrete, i already said you why pakistan is blaming india. if the fund is transferred to afghanis then US will surely find it out and they can warn india, but they never did, that means there is noting like Indian support to TTP... it all pakistani propaganda for hiding the truth. pakistan is not stable in its entaire history. either in the form of military takeover the civilins government or terror related problems.
pakistan didn't declare as a terrorist state because the US need pakistan to transport their men and equipment into Afghanistan. once they are out of afghanistan then you can face the US anger and deceleration of pakistan as a terrorist state.

The last few lines of yours and you have said it all, if need of the hour is stopping US from declaring us a terror state then same is the case with India, because regional stability is what in everyones best interest.
As far as evidence is concerned then what evidence has veen made public by US of PakistaPakistan's involvement in afghan attacks? And i say the same for India

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

The last few lines of yours and you have said it all, if need of the hour is stopping US from declaring us a terror state then same is the case with India, because regional stability is what in everyones best interest.
As far as evidence is concerned then what evidence has veen made public by US of PakistaPakistan's involvement in afghan attacks? And i say the same for India

US don't need india to transport their equipment from Afghanistan, and india don't share any border with Afghanistan. US always praise india's effort to help afghanistan. they ask for more... don't compare india's role in Afghanistan with pakistan's terror sponsering. if regional stability is pakistan's interest then why did pakistan sponsor terrorism in india?? if you want evidence then google about pakistan's role in sponsoring terror in india. if you want a non indian source then google about devid headly in US...

 

[Finer]

now here is the real version my friend.

the reason isi collaborated with cia is BECAUSE they wanted to be left with these soldiers...yes sir, for Kashmir. cia was ok with it because India supported Russia/USSR.

remember the "water must boil at the right temperature " by none other than Pakistan supremo, yes supremo zia ul haq ? what he meant is, the concept of Islamic jihad has to become a synonymous thing with fighting for Pakistan. who then will be directed towards Kashmir along with a Quran. Think. you could say that IS Pakistan's fault.

no ?

USSR invaded Afghanistan. Hence Afghan Mujahideen was created and funded by CIA. CIA wanted to see USSR collapse while its goal was interlinked with Pakistan concerning the affairs of Afghanistan attached to Pakistan. Nothing to do with India. I don't blame CIA/ISI for doing this as Afghanistan was invaded and Pakistan could have been next. They did what was neccessity for Afghanistan.

# Let's leave opinions-fed-by-Indian-media at Indian-conspiracy-theory

 

[manojb]

150 innocent children slaughtered. .and pak still in delusion. . What a pity.

 

[Finer]

read about your history.. its pakistan who created taliban. pakistan military want the afghanistan to be under their control and to recute terrorists for fight in kashmir.

I am guessing your media fed you this while USA already acknowledges its role over the collapse of USSR through its funded-group, Afghan Taliban, former Afghan Mujahideen. In fact, they even boasted about this. USSR collapsed due to Afghan Mujahideen, funded by CIA. That was biggest role CIA has ever played in the history of mankind. That is on the record.

# Step out of Indian media world

The whole concept of using tribals and Afghans is an old policy of pakistan. They employed them way back in 1947 against kashmiri to conquer.

As for the Mujahideen. Pakistan intelligence was on one hand taking billions from both US and Saudis to train, arm and use them to push their strategic agenda.

Madrasseh to brainwash these fighters, training camps and bomb, explosives and weapons experts were all PA officers..ISI managed them in their safe houses and managed a par elle govt of the taliban in Quetta.

The US used your services to forward their agenda against the soviets and paid for it handsomely...but the ops and jihadification of afghanistan was all pakistan's creation and management.

The whole pushing of terrorists to get strategic benefits against Afghanistan, US and India has already been conceded by many pakistani leaders.

So acting innocent about it does not really work.

The whole proxy game backfired badly.

This is what i call troll. You are desperately mixing both narratives as one without founded evidence to back.

Afghan Mujahideen was founded by CIA. Because of CIA's examplary work, USSR collapsed and took its army back from Afghanistan its invaded.

Regarding Kashmir, i agree that those Mujahideen played vital role for Kashmir. This is not certain whether they were Afghan Mujahideen or Pakistan Mujahideen as majority of Pashtuns lived in Pakistan, chose affliation of Pukhtoonistan, former NWFP, with Pakistan over Afghanistan.

Technically, this falls under the category of Pakistan. History shows Pakistan occupied half-portion of Kashmir while Indian occupied half-portion of Kashmir, but only different is that Kashmiris in Indian-Occupied-Kashmir is revolting against Indian armies, in fact their people were killed in million numbers by Indian armies. Kashmiris in Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir enjoy the stability with peace under the ruling of Pakistan army.

Leaving the history of Kashmir aside, regarding Afghan Mujahideen as it is on the record whether you accept this or not, that Afghan Mujahideen was funded by CIA. In fact, both Pakistan and Afghanistan are thankful of role CIA has played ensuring the collapsed of USSR through successfully resisted against USSR armies in Afghanistan.

15-20 years later, it has come to the situation that USA army had to fight against its own-funded group, Afghan Taliban. History never cease to amaze us. Due to lack of regulators, Afghan Taliban is now out of control. Both USA and Pakistan acknowledges that and accept the fact that it is now too late to stop Afghan Taliban while USA is leaving Afghanistan with peace treaty with Afghan Taliban.

It is Pakistan that has to deal with Afghan Taliban while USA is leaving Afghanistan. I don't see how Pakistan can resolve this crisis as Pakistan is already battling against TTP, Tehreek Taliban Pakistan - newly created group funded by foreign elements, although several reports suggest that funding-part might trace back to neighbor nation.

150 innocent children slaughtered. .and pak still in delusion. . What a pity.

Pakistan army is fighting against TTP. Pretty soon, Pakistan not only will make TTP pay, but also those funded TTP will pay big time. It is time Pakistan tackle the group and those who funded group, as both are equally guilty of killing more than 150 innocent children, not to mention having already killed more than 50,000 civilians before attack on school in Peshawar.

Time to make them [group and those who fund group] pay big time.

Dumped ?

If it was felt so strongly ,what was stopping Pakistan from going against them then like it has now ?

They were strategic assets weren't they ?

Afghan Mujahideen was useful for CIA as it was created to resist USSR. After the successful mission, Afghan Taliban was no longer needed, therefore it was dumped on Pakistan to deal the mess.

Pakistan has been dealing this kind of mess ever since 80's. It is different that neighbor with love has been mind-controlled about evil Pakistan.

why do not you ask ur Afg Taliban brothers to destroy the TTP operating from Afghanistan !

Ironically, Afghan Taliban is fighting against TTP as well as its has same reservation about TTP. It even warned TTP to stop attacking Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

Indian MI and RAW trains Afghan Intel, through which India provides funds , weapons and sanctuary to leadership as well as training camps of Baluch rebels while on other hand Afghani intel is helping TTP in kunar and nooristan. Your Indian MI is in afghanistan since 2002. Brigadier who was killed in bomb blast was Indian MI officer. Your army intel TSD ran deep covert ops in pakistan. Keep burying your head in sand like ostrich.

Which weapons?

 

[acid rain]

I am guessing your media fed you this while USA already acknowledges its role over the collapse of USSR through its funded-group, Afghan Taliban, former Afghan Mujahideen. In fact, they even boasted about this. USSR collapsed due to Afghan Mujahideen, funded by CIA. That was biggest role CIA has ever played in the history of mankind. That is on the record.

# Step out of Indian media world



This is what i call troll. You are desperately mixing both narratives as one without founded evidence to back.

Afghan Mujahideen was founded by CIA. Because of CIA's examplary work, USSR collapsed and took its army back from Afghanistan its invaded.

Regarding Kashmir, i agree that those Mujahideen played vital role for Kashmir. This is not certain whether they were Afghan Mujahideen or Pakistan Mujahideen as majority of Pashtuns lived in Pakistan, chose affliation of Pukhtoonistan, former NWFP, with Pakistan over Afghanistan.

Technically, this falls under the category of Pakistan. History shows Pakistan occupied half-portion of Kashmir while Indian occupied half-portion of Kashmir, but only different is that Kashmiris in Indian-Occupied-Kashmir is revolting against Indian armies, in fact their people were killed in million numbers by Indian armies. Kashmiris in Pakistan-Occupied-Kashmir enjoy the stability with peace under the ruling of Pakistan army.

Leaving the history of Kashmir aside, regarding Afghan Mujahideen as it is on the record whether you accept this or not, that Afghan Mujahideen was funded by CIA. In fact, both Pakistan and Afghanistan are thankful of role CIA has played ensuring the collapsed of USSR through successfully resisted against USSR armies in Afghanistan.

15-20 years later, it has come to the situation that USA army had to fight against its own-funded group, Afghan Taliban. History never cease to amaze us. Due to lack of regulators, Afghan Taliban is now out of control. Both USA and Pakistan acknowledges that and accept the fact that it is now too late to stop Afghan Taliban while USA is leaving Afghanistan with peace treaty with Afghan Taliban.

It is Pakistan that has to deal with Afghan Taliban while USA is leaving Afghanistan. I don't see how Pakistan can resolve this crisis as Pakistan is already battling against TTP, Tehreek Taliban Pakistan - newly created group funded by foreign elements, although several reports suggest that funding-part might trace back to neighbor nation.



Pakistan army is fighting against TTP. Pretty soon, Pakistan not only will make TTP pay, but also those funded TTP will pay big time. It is time Pakistan tackle the group and those who funded group, as both are equally guilty of killing more than 150 innocent children, not to mention having already killed more than 50,000 civilians before attack on school in Peshawar.

Time to make them [group and those who fund group] pay big time.



Afghan Mujahideen was useful for CIA as it was created to resist USSR. After the successful mission, Afghan Taliban was no longer needed, therefore it was dumped on Pakistan to deal the mess.

Pakistan has been dealing this kind of mess ever since 80's. It is different that neighbor with love has been mind-controlled about evil Pakistan.



Ironically, Afghan Taliban is fighting against TTP as well as its has same reservation about TTP. It even warned TTP to stop attacking Pakistan.

You lost my respect when you claimed that millions of Kashmiris were killed by Indian forces - 70% of them voted in Indian elections for your info.

You claim that Azad Kashmir is peaceful - yes, peaceful under PA control, I don't want to divert the topic by showing you the protests there.

As for the taliban...what you say is not complete BS about US support, but the support was because of pakistan.

You put entire blame on US for the terrorist infrastructure - the madrasseh the mullahs the terrorist camps the weapons and the brainwashing the explosives and the suicide training on the US when in fact it was pakistan that engineered all that.

You talk as if you people are so innocent that a foreign country comes into your country and sets up terrorist infrastructure and recruits thousands of your people and sends them to fight in another country without your support.

This lying through the teeth is synonymous with both your leaders and your people. Nothing surprising here because we know what pakistanis are.

This one news link will suffice to point out pakistan controls and operates the taliban

Viewpoint: Ashraf Ghani needs Pakistan help with Taliban talks - BBC News

Afghans requesting pakistan for help to talk to the taliban - just figure out why is that?

 

[Finer]

@acid rain

I am guessing those million kashmiris were killed by Indian soldiers disappeared out of nowhere? Like i said, stop following Indian media.

What part of "USA leaving the mess on Pakistan" don't you understand?

Pakistan is the one dealing with the mess ever since 80's. Whether it is peace treaty, madrassah, terrorism, you mention it.

 

[third eye]

Afghan Mujahideen was useful for CIA as it was created to resist USSR. After the successful mission, Afghan Taliban was no longer needed, therefore it was dumped on Pakistan to deal the mess.

Pakistan has been dealing this kind of mess ever since 80's. It is different that neighbor with love has been mind-controlled about evil Pakistan.

What do you mean ' dumped' ?

Does Pak allow itself to be a dumping ground ?

The fact is that Pak felt it could get mileage from these men - money from USA & trouble to India , and it did.

Now that the chickens have come home to roost , the acid is eating into the container.

 

[Finer]

What do you mean ' dumped' ?

Does Pak allow itself to be a dumping ground ?

The fact is that Pak felt it could get mileage from these men - money from USA & trouble to India , and it did.

Now that the chickens have come home to roost , the acid is eating into the container.

Dump is perfect word in this case regardless of how you sugarcoat the interpretation as fueled by Indian media.

USA is leaving Afghanistan once again. Now, Pakistan has two messes to deal; Afghan Taliban and TTP.

 

[third eye]

Dump is perfect word in this case regardless of how you sugarcoat the interpretation as fueled by Indian media.

USA is leaving Afghanistan once again. Now, Pakistan has two messes to deal; Afghan Taliban and TTP.

Call it dumped if you consider yourself a dumping ground. Others would do two things - accept that a problem exists & then deal with it.

Pakistan as the world sees it has only one mess to deal with - its internal decision making.