Pakistan to buy 40 SU-35 or Euro Fighter soon

[Hassan Guy]

EFT -not available and TFX - long long long way to go.. not even on drawing board ... you just gave deadly certificate.. lolz

For future but EFT should be bought soon

 

[muhammadali233]

Typhoon is just too pricey and with talks of India assembling F16s SU35 may be a possibility but it would be a big decision for Pakistan, Russia India and China too

Manufacturing SU35?
Russian said when they were letting Indians and Chinese modify their planes to buyer needs was like selling their mother to them.It was not russian cup of tea but due to falling economy and to save the design bureau go ahead was given,TAI type F-16 facility might be made in India but Su 35 is not going to happen.

 

[Zarvan]

Sir WHEN we sign the deal i would say that we have signed the deal and will be happy about it!!
I wont give any indications let alone CONFIRMATION that we have signed the deal like you are doing!
Funny how you left all those questions asked of you, AGAIN!!

I just told what PAF told senate I have added nothing and reduced nothing from statement so you want to ask any or raise any questions ask PAF not me

The PAF has been connected by fanboys and others to the Typhoon since 2006. This latest rumor is probably originating from the same vein. I share your skepticism.

It's not rumour it's PAF official statement and briefing given to senate commiittee of defence

 

[Fireurimagination]

Manufacturing SU35?
Russian said when they were letting Indians and Chinese modify their planes to buyer needs was like selling their mother to them.It was not russian cup of tea but due to falling economy and to save the design bureau go ahead was given,TAI type F-16 facility might be made in India but Su 35 is not going to happen.

I missed a comma after F16 I meant SU35 for PAF

 

[waz]

@waz If you can think back, the one time period where it did seem that the Typhoon could realistically happen (albeit remotely) was in 2005-2006. At that time, the Typhoon was competing for a major Turkish Air Force program, and an official at the Eurofighter Consortium actually said something to the tune of "...and we believe Turkish built Typhoons could be exported to Pakistan..." Mentioning Pakistan back then was very relevant because at the time, the PAF was evaluating the Typhoon as a possible "plus one" platform to join the Block-52+ and JF-17.

Fair play, it's a long shot. It's still an option though for the PAF.

 

[Tps43]

Paf loves euro fighter but its too much expensive where as su 35 can be a option but dont think that if it will be comming in paf easily! but what I think one how the other one of them should be selected as paf seriously needs something better than f 16 and a dedicated ac for air supiriorty.

 

[araz]

This is all hear say. There is no indication in the article about whatplane PAF is eyeing. Till we know better this thread is superfluous and a waste of time. MODS please take notice. There is no concrete evidence to suuggest PAF is buying either of the platcorms.
A

Fair play, it's a long shot. It's still an option though for the PAF.

This thread should be closed. Thee is nothing concrete to back this up. Even if there is intent this thread is 2-3 yrs too early. I will gladly salute @ Zarvan when it happens but for now this thread needs to be closed or merged with something like future options for PAF to purchase.
A

 

[waz]

This is all hear say. There is no indication in the article about whatplane PAF is eyeing. Till we know better this thread is superfluous and a waste of time. MODS please take notice. There is no concrete evidence to suuggest PAF is buying either of the platcorms.
A


This thread should be closed. Thee is nothing concrete to back this up. Even if there is intent this thread is 2-3 yrs too early. I will gladly salute @ Zarvan when it happens but for now this thread needs to be closed or merged with something like future options for PAF to purchase.
A

I agree.

 

[Super Falcon]

SU 35 marks all checks according to given situation of country

Air superiority. Check
Price tag Check
PAF suiting Check
Weapons load. Check
Maneuverability Check
Sea shore Defence Check

 

[Wolf]

For all the hue and cry by PAF and unfaithfulness of American, European and French beauties, PAF may end up buying J-10Cs and they will prove to be better in time of need and nobody may be able to answer then that why it took PAF so long

 

[danger007]

For future but EFT should be bought soon

not possible .. not realistic option..

 

[CHI RULES]

This is all hear say. There is no indication in the article about whatplane PAF is eyeing. Till we know better this thread is superfluous and a waste of time. MODS please take notice. There is no concrete evidence to suuggest PAF is buying either of the platcorms.
A


This thread should be closed. Thee is nothing concrete to back this up. Even if there is intent this thread is 2-3 yrs too early. I will gladly salute @ Zarvan when it happens but for now this thread needs to be closed or merged with something like future options for PAF to purchase.
A

The trench1 Euro fighters are going to be retired and shall be available cheaply the may however require upgrades i.e A to G capability and Radars. If PAF requires them then same can be done within a year however upgradation may take time.

On the other hand yeas Su35s if chosen may require at least two years for start of supply.

Though Russian tech has greatly improved yet considering IAF experience with handling SU30s and their continuous overhaul requirements one may easily judge that though SU35 is an improved form of SU27 yet it may have more requirements for overhaul/other issues as compared to Eu fighter. PAF should chose Euro fighter tench 1 as soon as possible and get them upgraded instead of investing more on F16s or going for Mirage 2000-5/9s from Arab countries.

This thread though may prove to be ambitious yet highlights the main issue of PAF in current scenario as well as near future. I have wrote many times that current PAF fleet even in defensive posture has limited number of tier -1 fighter as compared to IAF.

In current scenario if IAF INVOLVES 100 Su30s out of 240+ Su 30s along with 30-40 Mig 29s along with 30 odd Mirrage 2000s then number goes up to 170 which may easily go up to 200 upgraded Jets with long range BVRs and HOBs WVR missiles.

On the other hand PAF has total 76 F16s of which few are with CCS and about 56 jf17s. If we assume that PAF is able to bring 60 F16s and 50 JF17s ( some may not be ready due to overhauls/repairs) then number at max shall be 100 to 110 roughly half of IAF. Further PAF jets only have two BVRS with SD 10 having range of about 100KM and AMRAM120 with range of 110-20 at Max. The BVRs include Pirana1, PL-5, old versions of AIM9 with no HOBS so far available.
Further SU30 can engage many A to A and A to G targets at one time along with Mirage 2000.

So crux of above discussion is that this thread not required to be closed further PAF requires at least 30 to 40 capable jets along with HOBS WVRs and BVR of new era to counter even the existing IAF threat. Even in defensive posture PAF may need to go for offense and bombing of enemy strategic sites which can't be done by our current Mirage-III/Vs considering strong SAM/Radar network of India.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The reason some jets aren't exported is because they have priceless technology that other countries can only dream of. The F-35 is a superior jet compared to the F-22, but the F-22 was not exported because it was unique at the time. They fear that some information may leak out and they wouldn't want that.

That's also why the Americans haven't yet brought the F-35 to tenders. Too much information is given away during tenders. Critical details that India has for all jets in tenders to date, including future capabilities and their time frame. Such information is detrimental to PAF.

thats what i said but you expanded my point,
actually lm have already began tenders bae systems in salmsbury is being expanded to train new engineers. there will be built in salmsbury and warton where they taranis and typhoons are made. norway, israel and turkey among others are building parts for the f35.

also note india is not a partner in the f35 program and would not be allowed to see any technical documents. if your a partner then it would be differant

The UAE M2ks are similar but still inferior to the Indian M-2000UPG. It has 10 years worth of new technologies in it. It has a lot of extra equipment, including for nuclear weapons.

really the upgraded mk2-2/ti have near enough the same specs. they can launch stand off missiles also, the storm shadow.

No, the Egyptian M-29s are not as good as the Indian ones at least in terms of avionics. There are a few reasons for that. However the Egyptian M-29s are the newer models, but that's irrelevant.

indian mig-29's are being upgraded to the standard "smt" variant. the eygptain migs on order are near enough a mig-35 and are being classed as mig-35's.

Also, the MKI has unique aerodynamic qualities not present on Chinese Flankers. The MKI have canards and TVC. So even the aerodynamics is different.

i never mentioned china why are you bringing them into this.?
also note any su-30 with front canards has an inherient nose heavy due to the amount of kit there and how far the wings are from the nose. so the canards on the lerx help control the aircraft. the su-35 was redesigned so that the frame was more balanced so there was no need for canards.

Any sale of the MKI requires Indian permission. We paid for its development. And whatever systems were made for the MKI were modernized for the Su-35, like the Su-35's and PAK FA's radars were derived from MKI's Bars radar. Now we are paying a lot of money for the upgrade, which will be used to upgrade the other export jets also.

The MKM/MKI/MKA/SM differences are irrelevant because India was part of the project since its inception. India trained Malaysian Su-30 pilots. Parts of the MKM were made in India. We have advanced relations with the Malaysians.

not really it was developed for indian needs. it was designed in russia and built in russia and licenced built in india.
yes the radars are similar but i dont see why that is relivant.
did india train algerian pliots? how about supplying them spare parts? the algerians solely depend on russia for parts.
yes malaysia did have their pliots trained in india and flew on india mki's and the some parts of the mkm is built in india.

The sub leak wasn't critical. It was information that's given in presentations when countries express interest in purchasing the system.

if you say so.

Yes, hence irrelevant.

then why bring it up when trying to shame the typhoon?

 

[randomradio]

also note india is not a partner in the f35 program and would not be allowed to see any technical documents. if your a partner then it would be differant

I already said that. They are not bringing the F-35 into tenders right now.

really the upgraded mk2-2/ti have near enough the same specs. they can launch stand off missiles also, the storm shadow.

No. The IAF M2Ks are far more advanced, the radar has been modernized, the EW suite is new, it has additional nuclear capabilities. The datalinks connect the M2k to a very advanced network that the UAEAF has no access to. There's a 10 years difference between the 2k-9 and the 2kUPG.

indian mig-29's are being upgraded to the standard "smt" variant. the eygptain migs on order are near enough a mig-35 and are being classed as mig-35's.

No. Egypt is buying the Mig-29M/M2. The avionics are better on the IAF Mig-29s because they carry Indian designed AESA DRFM jammers. The Mig-29M carries a very basic export package for EW.

also note any su-30 with front canards has an inherient nose heavy due to the amount of kit there and how far the wings are from the nose. so the canards on the lerx help control the aircraft. the su-35 was redesigned so that the frame was more balanced so there was no need for canards.

The Su-35 wasn't designed from the Su-30. It was designed from the Su-27.

The Su-35's electronics have been designed from the MKI program.

not really it was developed for indian needs. it was designed in russia and built in russia and licenced built in india.

The MKI's development was paid for by India. That's why India has a say in who it is sold to.

yes the radars are similar but i dont see why that is relivant.

Relevant because India has a lot of access to the radar. Pak doesn't. And if Pak buys the Irbis-E equipped Su-35, then that will be to IAF's advantage.

did india train algerian pliots? how about supplying them spare parts? the algerians solely depend on russia for parts.
yes malaysia did have their pliots trained in india and flew on india mki's and the some parts of the mkm is built in india.

Now you are bringing up irrelevant points. Algeria and Malaysia are not Pakistan. India allowed the sale of the MKI to both Algeria and Malaysia. And Indian relations with Algeria is very good. They are politically aligned with us.

then why bring it up when trying to shame the typhoon?

Because when I gave PAF the option of the J-20, you said the J-10 has engine problems. I pointed out the Typhoon also has problems.

 

[Hassan Guy]

I already said that. They are not bringing the F-35 into tenders right now.



No. The IAF M2Ks are far more advanced, the radar has been modernized, the EW suite is new, it has additional nuclear capabilities. The datalinks connect the M2k to a very advanced network that the UAEAF has no access to. There's a 10 years difference between the 2k-9 and the 2kUPG.



No. Egypt is buying the Mig-29M/M2. The avionics are better on the IAF Mig-29s because they carry Indian designed AESA DRFM jammers. The Mig-29M carries a very basic export package for EW.



The Su-35 wasn't designed from the Su-30. It was designed from the Su-27.

The Su-35's electronics have been designed from the MKI program.



The MKI's development was paid for by India. That's why India has a say in who it is sold to.



Relevant because India has a lot of access to the radar. Pak doesn't. And if Pak buys the Irbis-E equipped Su-35, then that will be to IAF's advantage.



Now you are bringing up irrelevant points. Algeria and Malaysia are not Pakistan. India allowed the sale of the MKI to both Algeria and Malaysia. And Indian relations with Algeria is very good. They are politically aligned with us.



Because when I gave PAF the option of the J-20, you said the J-10 has engine problems. I pointed out the Typhoon also has problems.

Typhoon is better, I don't know if PAF needs some heavy *** Su-35's and Mig-35's we never bought aircraft like these before because we never needed them.