pakistan stopped buying military equpment from USA totally

[Humble Analyst]

its been now 3 years and 4 months Pakistan have never ordered any military equipment from USA . i fact our last three orders were not delivered or canceled .
Feb. 12, 2016 f-16 block52 8 units canceled
Apr 6, 2015 AH1Z vipers halted
Oct 30, 2014 cutter for navy - canceled


our last major arms deal was with us Sep 19, 2014 MAARPs which was delivered . so technically we are not getting nor ordering US made weapons since sep-2014 . its almost 5 years without US made weapons deals . how you people see our forces future . remember we are still major non NATO ally on papers .

personally i think we did right in last 5 years and we should avoid US made weapons in future too . US weapons are drug for a country . USA spy - black mail- ban - and stop spares and services at the time of need . we are looking other countries like china - Russia - turkey - Sweden - Italy- even Holland Brazil these days and things working well .

Pakistan have ordered or received below arms in last 5 years. so far my point of view we can filful our needs without sucking USA .


air force
jf-17 with Chinese help
drones and UAVs local chines help
helicopters from italy
SAMs from china italy



navy
frigates type54 from china
patrol crafts from china
missile boats from china
naval fuel tanker from turkey
Split Hoppers Barges from china
corvettes from Holland
corvettes from turkey

army
ATGM from spain
APCs from italy
MRAP FROM SOUTH AFRICA
choppers from italy
choppers from turkey
choppers from russia

Submarines from China too

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It's US who has shot themselves in foot by ruining their 40-50 year trade with various countries of region

 

[BHarwana]

The only major clash between US-led forces and Afghan Taliban occurred in Afghanistan during the period (October 2001 - June 2002) when Afghan Taliban were controlling 90% of Afghanistan including Kabul.

FYI: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR381.html

And US-led forces utterly humiliated Afghan Taliban in this particular clash.

"U.S. forces were surprisingly successful in toppling the Taliban. The rigorous preparation of SOF clearly paid off. Air-land operations were decisive. Small-unit soldiers and leaders passed the tests of the harsh Afghan environment. Force protection, logistics operations, and communications each worked well."

After that clash, remnants of Afghan Taliban fled to Pakistan and Iran in order to regroup and bid their time. When US-led forces withdrew from Afghanistan in large numbers in 2014, Afghan Taliban re-surged soon after with a fresh bunch of fighters and took parts of Afghanistan by storm once again. Although US-backed Afghan government have held its ground since the resurgence of Afghan Taliban (2015 and onwards), it is not up to the task of expanding its footprint across entire Afghanistan due to internal corruption and unreliable ANA. This dynamic have frustrated US actually.

US was more interested in sorting out the matters of Middle East and Africa than Afghanistan. However, US did manage to eradicate Al-Qaeda Network across Afghanistan and Pakistan by 2011, and helped Pakistan in clearing its lands from TTP via numerous drone strikes (the first of its kind in history).

There is no such thing as "yet it took 17 years and still no victory in Afghanistan" - complete misreading of developments in Afghanistan. US-led forces utterly humiliated Afghan Taliban and pulled off 'regime change' in Afghanistan in a span of few months (October 2001 - June 2002). However, Afghan Taliban re-surged in 2015 after US-led forces withdrew from Afghanistan in large numbers in 2014.

What do you expect US to do now? Invade Afghanistan again?

American military is very strong and capable, and will deliver results in any theater, but it is up to American politicians to make the most out of these accomplishments in the aftermath, but sometimes they do not.

So USA failed in politics and not militarily?
Bro what makes you think USA won in Afghanistan? If you consider winning Kabul and then keep on fighting for coming 17 years is victory then I am shocked at this victory. Anyways the thread is about USA military equipment let's not derail it and let's agree to disagree shall we.

Now back on topic. How is US military equipment better? What war USA won against a first world country in recent decade?
USA has only one weapon at it's disposal which is swift system all the rest of US weapons are just like any other. Let's take a weapon at the lowest most tire. M4 vs Ak47 which is better? There are many here expert is guns ask any.

 

[Arsalan 345]

not only china sir but turkey and EU also blessing too . for example
spada-2000
AW-139
AS350
AUGOSA-90S
AND so many great weapons we have from west too . i think Pakistan did it right now we have 10 countries supplying weapons rather then 2-3 in past .


forget them cutters are dead and cobras will come when we no need them like f-16s after 15 years .

sweden played a very big role and sweden also received indian complains related to saab lol.i believe we can buy more weapons from sweden like gripen E and other tactical stuff.we need better economy.sweden weapon industry is now a trusted industry.

 

[Humble Analyst]

sweden played a very big role and sweden also receives indian complains related to saab lol.i believe we can buy more weapons from sweden like gripen E and other tactical stuff.we need better economy.sweden weapon industry is now a trusted industry.

Try buying Gripen from Sweden

 

[Arsalan 345]

America was never our friend, it just wasnt our enemy in the different phases in the past because of conjoined interests but even in the past whenever those interests subsided the US turned hostile towards Pakistan, trump or no trump this time the hostility is permanent as the world is now clearly defined into 2 blocs and with CPEC and other strategic interests in the region, we are firmly in the Chinese Bloc. America is a state hostile to Pakistan.

we have a history of cooperation with america.they provided us their latest jets(in 80s) to help us fight against india.many ex american presidents trusted pakistan and provided help but after war in afghanistan,everything has changed.bush and obama was neutral and don't wanted confrontation but trump do whatever he wants so we should better search another market.don't trust trump.

 

[LeGenD]

So USA failed in politics and not militarily?

Yes.

Following key military objectives fulfilled:-

1. Toppling Taliban-led government in Afghanistan and replacing it with another (Regime Change) by 2002.

2. Eradication of Al-Qaeda Network across Afghanistan and Pakistan by 2011. This was the primary mission, and justice served to those deemed responsible for 9/11.

Political miscalculations in Afghanistan paved way for the re-surgence of Taliban in Afghanistan however.

1. US did not devise an effective solution for curbing poppy farming in Afghanistan - the primary source of revenue for many Afghans and militants in the region.

BBC article (How the US military's opium war in Afghanistan was lost) for reference - check it out.

2. When Pakistan Army conducted Operation Zarb-e-Azb, many militants fled to Afghanistan. Obama administration had golden opportunity to commit US-led forces to intercept these movements at the time but did not bother with this. Obama administration rather committed to withdrawing a large proportion of US-led forces from Afghanistan in 2014.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-35169478

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...urgence-afghanistan-isil-151227065817409.html

Bro what makes you think USA won in Afghanistan? If you consider winning Kabul and then keep on fighting for coming 17 years is victory then I am shocked at this victory. Anyways the thread is about USA military equipment let's not derail it and let's agree to disagree shall we.

See above.

Taliban were patient and waited for US-led forces to exit from Afghanistan in 2014 in order to re-surge - very smart and calculative move. US was caught off-guard in this new phase of war.

Now back on topic. How is US military equipment better? What war USA won against a first world country in recent decade?
USA has only one weapon at it's disposal which is swift system all the rest of US weapons are just like any other. Let's take a weapon at the lowest most tire. M4 vs Ak47 which is better? There are many here expert is guns ask any.

First world countries are not challenging US anywhere.

AK-47 vs. M4 = both are very good rifles and function well in rugged environments. However, M4 is relatively more accurate, lethal, and also safer to handle.

FYI:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=784609584988091

 

[untitled]

we have a history of cooperation with america.they provided us their latest jets(in 80s) to help us fight against india

Disagree
America never gave us weapons with the intention of us fighting India with them. The weapons we were given were to be used against the Soviets, Communist Afghanistan and now the Taliban. Infact one thing common in all those deliveries was the unwritten US disclaimer: Please try not to use our made weapons against India.

In 1965 why were we forced to agree to a cease fire while we had a upper hand? One was reason was our dwindling supply of spare parts for our American made fighters thanks to the US embargo.

1980s the US reluctantly supplied us F16s to fight the Soviets. In the 1990s another embargo was placed on our fleet of F16s and the remaining fleet was sanctioned. We were not threatening the US with our nukes. Those F16s would have been used against India hence were denied to us.

Fast forward to 2010 once again we were given F16s but this time to bomb Taliban caves not Indian military targets or shoot down Indian AF jets.

We were all busy here discussing the technicalities of the alleged kill switches in our F16s yet we overlooked the most obvious of them all. The one to which not even our low tech F86s were immune to. The sanctions kill switch. Why do you think DG ISPR had to say that no F16s were used by Pakistan on 27th Feburary? Why were we here on PDF, were forced to defend this statement and were made to feel as if using the F16 was tantamount to cheating? Why do you think the Indians were hell bent on proving we used F16s even at the expense of making a fool of themselves by showing a piece of AMRAAM missile? They knew that if they whined just enough to the US, they would have once again sanctioned the entire PAF F16 fleet. If this skirmish had turned into a full scale war. They would have done just that

 

[CrazyZ]

Historically the most potent and effective weapon IAF has against the PAF has been USA sanctions. At this point, I would not purchase front line military hardware from the USA. We should trade with USA though...but for tech and know how we need like G.E. CFB boilers for Thar coal exploitation and shale gas/oil extraction tech/know how.

Military hardware should come from more reliable sellers.

 

[BHarwana]

Yes.

Following key military objectives fulfilled:-

1. Toppling Taliban-led government in Afghanistan and replacing it with another (Regime Change) by 2002.

2. Eradication of Al-Qaeda Network across Afghanistan and Pakistan by 2011. This was the primary mission, and justice served to those deemed responsible for 9/11.

Political miscalculations in Afghanistan paved way for the re-surgence of Taliban in Afghanistan however.

1. US did not devise an effective solution for curbing poppy farming in Afghanistan - the primary source of revenue for many Afghans and militants in the region.

BBC article (How the US military's opium war in Afghanistan was lost) for reference - check it out.

2. When Pakistan Army conducted Operation Zarb-e-Azb, many militants fled to Afghanistan. Obama administration had golden opportunity to commit US-led forces to intercept these movements at the time but did not bother with this. Obama administration rather committed to withdrawing a large proportion of US-led forces from Afghanistan in 2014.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-35169478

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...urgence-afghanistan-isil-151227065817409.html


See above.

Taliban were patient and waited for US-led forces to exit from Afghanistan in 2014 in order to re-surge - very smart and calculative move. US was caught off-guard in this new phase of war.


First world countries are not challenging US anywhere.

AK-47 vs. M4 = both are very good rifles and function well in rugged environments. However, M4 is relatively more accurate, lethal, and also safer to handle.

FYI:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=784609584988091

Hmm have you personally used both? If yes then tell me your experience of not then shall I tell you?

 

[Yaseen1]

It is good for us as u.s is considering us enemy and using their weapon is risky particularly if they attack us directly as they know how to defeat their own made weapons

 

[Arsalan 345]

Disagree
America never gave us weapons with the intention of us fighting India with them. The weapons we were given were to be used against the Soviets, Communist Afghanistan and now the Taliban. Infact one thing common in all those deliveries was the unwritten US disclaimer: Please try not to use our made weapons against India.

In 1965 why were we forced to agree to a cease fire while we had a upper hand? One was reason was our dwindling supply of spare parts for our American made fighters thanks to the US embargo.

1980s the US reluctantly supplied us F16s to fight the Soviets. In the 1990s another embargo was placed on our fleet of F16s and the remaining fleet was sanctioned. We were not threatening the US with our nukes. Those F16s would have been used against India hence were denied to us.

Fast forward to 2010 once again we were given F16s but this time to bomb Taliban caves not Indian military targets or shoot down Indian AF jets.

We were all busy here discussing the technicalities of the alleged kill switches in our F16s yet we overlooked the most obvious of them all. The one to which not even our low tech F86s were immune to. The sanctions kill switch. Why do you think DG ISPR had to say that no F16s were used by Pakistan on 27th Feburary? Why were we here on PDF, were forced to defend this statement and were made to feel as if using the F16 was tantamount to cheating? Why do you think the Indians were hell bent on proving we used F16s even at the expense of making a fool of themselves by showing a piece of AMRAAM missile? They knew that if they whined just enough to the US, they would have once again sanctioned the entire PAF F16 fleet. If this skirmish had turned into a full scale war. They would have done just that

i agree but i think we also wanted f-16 because we like this plane.nobody gives you a plane for free and nobody can ask you if you want this plane.america knows what we likes.we still like some of their weapons but we can't buy them because we know,we can't use it against india.we used f-16s against india but reluctant to say it in front of the whole world.current american government is inclined towards india and we should select other market.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

The more independent we get from the US manufactured weapons, the better it will be for us.

 

[Awan68]

we have a history of cooperation with america.they provided us their latest jets(in 80s) to help us fight against india.many ex american presidents trusted pakistan and provided help but after war in afghanistan,everything has changed.bush and obama was neutral and don't wanted confrontation but trump do whatever he wants so we should better search another market.don't trust trump.

I am sorry but ur understanding of geo politics and history is adoloscent so kindly dont indulge me in a conversation that will most definitely hurt my brain.

 

[LeGenD]

Hmm have you personally used both? If yes then tell me your experience of not then shall I tell you?

No, I have not tested M4 in person. I am not into collecting guns for fun.

Make no difference whatsoever since scores of people have extensively tested and compared both rifles (original versions), and have provided their testimonials.