pakistan stopped buying military equpment from USA totally

[Imran Khan]

Of course it is all good. And fair.

see how we are happy vipers - cutters - 8f16 are nothing we were already know they may come may not . so no pain .we will got from russia china turkey and enjoy . if we were blind US lovers when trump took office we were doomed like 1989 .

 

[VCheng]

see how we are happy vipers - cutters - 8f16 are nothing we were already know they may come may not . so no pain .we will got from russia china turkey and enjoy . if we were blind US lovers when trump took office we were doomed like 1989 .

There is nothing permanent in international geopolitics except national interests, right?

 

[LeGenD]

i will dissagree sir eu china russia have equal advanced tech as usa .

100% wrong. Not even close.

USA was not giving us latest tech any way . they were offering us 2nd and 3rd grade tech .

for example
pc3 orians not p8
cobras not Apache
bell 412 not black hawks - Chinooks
f-16 block 52 not block 70 or f35
aim9p not AIM9X
AMRAAMC5 not AMRRAMC7
C130H NOT C-130j or C-17
OPH frigates but without SM2

list is very long USA was giving us outdated tech as per US standards . so nothing to be worry here .

Do you think that China and Russia are willing to export their top-of-the-line hardware to Pakistan?

Answer is NO.

US provided scores of F-16 A/B Block 15 to Pakistan in the 1980s - among the very best of Western hardware at the time. And these jets have never let us down since.

PAF is operating a fleet of 70+ F-16s at present - all are up-to-date as per our needs, and the Block 52+ in particular give IAF nightmares on any given day. PAF is a potent regional force due to this fleet alone.

American military-purpose helicopters have served Pakistan Army well in COIN operations since 2004, most notably in the harsh mountaineous environments - very important consideration. However, these are becoming old (frames have an operational life) and replacements are due consequently. American AH-1Z Viper have no peer in the markets but we cannot afford these, therefore, Pakistan Army have no choice but to settle for Chinese, Russian and/or Turkish alternatives.

American artillery guns have served Pakistan Army well since 1965 - these guns blasted anything Indian to dust when within range.

The most powerful and capable radar systems in Pakistan's inventory are American AN/TPS-77 which have a crucial role to play in guiding long-range SAM systems, and PAF on the whole, for the needful.

American P3C Orion aircraft have served PN well in keeping tabs on the activities of Indian Navy near our coasts throughout the years since induction.

FYI: https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/2...f-P-3-Orion-in-Pakistan-Navy-irks-Indian-navy

Recent event: https://blogs.dunyanews.tv/24863/

Swiss AWACS also enable PAF to notice low-flying threats and facilitate EW operations if need be. Not exactly American but close.

Much of the stuff which US have offered to Pakistan from time to time is operationally tested in actual battlefields which is an important consideration when inducting hardware; localized trials do not tell much.

Few members follow these developments closely unfortunately.

 

[Muslim Warrior]

its been now 3 years and 4 months Pakistan have never ordered any military equipment from USA . i fact our last three orders were not delivered or canceled .
Feb. 12, 2016 f-16 block52 8 units canceled
Apr 6, 2015 AH1Z vipers halted
Oct 30, 2014 cutter for navy - canceled


our last major arms deal was with us Sep 19, 2014 MAARPs which was delivered . so technically we are not getting nor ordering US made weapons since sep-2014 . its almost 5 years without US made weapons deals . how you people see our forces future . remember we are still major non NATO ally on papers .

personally i think we did right in last 5 years and we should avoid US made weapons in future too . US weapons are drug for a country . USA spy - black mail- ban - and stop spares and services at the time of need . we are looking other countries like china - Russia - turkey - Sweden - Italy- even Holland Brazil these days and things working well .

Pakistan have ordered or received below arms in last 5 years. so far my point of view we can filful our needs without sucking USA .


air force
jf-17 with Chinese help
drones and UAVs local chines help
helicopters from italy
SAMs from china italy



navy
frigates type54 from china
patrol crafts from china
missile boats from china
naval fuel tanker from turkey
Split Hoppers Barges from china
corvettes from Holland
corvettes from turkey

army
ATGM from spain
APCs from italy
MRAP FROM SOUTH AFRICA
choppers from italy
choppers from turkey
choppers from russia

Brave and timely Decision ... But to sustain independency and remain at par with world technology we should invest big in our armed forces industries...

 

[LeGenD]

Above all there is the fact whatever US may or may not approve as FMS to Pakistan, they will sell better and more to India.
All we get is restrictions and sanctions so fcuk America.

Many countries are willing to oblige India because India have lot of cash and one of the biggest importer of arms in the world. Isn't this obvious?

Just look at France - ditched Pakistan for India not long ago.

However, Indian bureaucracy is not very smart. It is not very accomodating to American options, so we can rest easy.

Technological gap is narrowing between the US and the rest of the world, specially China. India has US and Israel on her side, those are the most competitive technological powerhouses at the moment. Either we like it or not that leaves us with China and Russia as our main suppliers.

This is an illusion unfortunately, intentionally created by Americans to minimize attention. Although, not every source - some are really blunt in pointing out American superiority in this domain.

American defense-related considerations outstrip that of others by a huge margin.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/262742/countries-with-the-highest-military-spending/

http://uis.unesco.org/apps/visualisations/research-and-development-spending/

Deep down, in special reports or in anonymous capacity, both Russian and Chinese officials admit to massive asymmtery in the military might of their respective countries vis-a-vis US.

Recently, a Chinese official admitted that USN is like 3 generations ahead of PLAAN in terms of holistic war-fighting capabilities. I can dig out the quote for you, if you want me to.

 

[Abdussamad]

They didn't dump us we dumped them! Fact is they stopped allowing us to buy weapons from them.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Pak-American Relationship is long dead , anyone expect anything from US is a fool including myself .. I used to think that we might order or get some New or Old F-16's but as the AH-Z1's are also stopped along with Navy cutters, i think that now America will not sell any weapon to Pakistan, hence no leverage over Pakistan to pressure .

 

[MastanKhan]

i dont know why Pakistanis did not act on time always

Hi,

Simple and plain arrogance on part of the Paf---. It believed it could buy anything and everything---.

It assessed that at that time that the Rafale was an inferior aircraft because it was never tested in combat----yes---that mentality existed in the PAF---.

I think that the Paf was more focused on making their own aircraft rather than thinking of immediate defence of pakistan---and what the enhanced power would do to the regional peace---.

 

[Awan68]

Hi,

Whomsoever ordered the AH1Z helicopters should be charged with misconduct +++.

misconduct is a light word, sabotage is more appropriate....

 

[Vortex]

Trust is a two-way street Sir. Do you recall what Pakistan did that denied it the F-16s back then?

Could you kindly remind me what we Pakistan did please ?

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

100% wrong. Not even close.


Do you think that China and Russia are willing to export their top-of-the-line hardware to Pakistan?

Answer is NO.

US provided scores of F-16 A/B Block 15 to Pakistan in the 1980s - among the very best of Western hardware at the time. And these jets have never let us down since.

PAF is operating a fleet of 70+ F-16s at present - all are up-to-date as per our needs, and the Block 52+ in particular give IAF nightmares on any given day. PAF is a potent regional force due to this fleet alone.

American military-purpose helicopters have served Pakistan Army well in COIN operations since 2004, most notably in the harsh mountaineous environments - very important consideration. However, these are becoming old (frames have an operational life) and replacements are due consequently. American AH-1Z Viper have no peer in the markets but we cannot afford these, therefore, Pakistan Army have no choice but to settle for Chinese, Russian and/or Turkish alternatives.

American artillery guns have served Pakistan Army well since 1965 - these guns blasted anything Indian to dust when within range.

The most powerful and capable radar systems in Pakistan's inventory are American AN/TPS-77 which have a crucial role to play in guiding long-range SAM systems, and PAF on the whole, for the needful.

American P3C Orion aircraft have served PN well in keeping tabs on the activities of Indian Navy near our coasts throughout the years since induction.

FYI: https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/2...f-P-3-Orion-in-Pakistan-Navy-irks-Indian-navy

Recent event: https://blogs.dunyanews.tv/24863/

Swiss AWACS also enable PAF to notice low-flying threats and facilitate EW operations if need be. Not exactly American but close.

Much of the stuff which US have offered to Pakistan from time to time is operationally tested in actual battlefields which is an important consideration when inducting hardware; localized trials do not tell much.

Few members follow these developments closely unfortunately.

Answer is yes. There are countless cases where Turkey and China have send their best equipment to Pakistan. They even send their top machines to be tested in Pakistan, ex. Z-10

 

[BHarwana]

Hi,

Simple and plain arrogance on part of the Paf---. It believed it could buy anything and everything---.

It assessed that at that time that the Rafale was an inferior aircraft because it was never tested in combat----yes---that mentality existed in the PAF---.

I think that the Paf was more focused on making their own aircraft rather than thinking of immediate defence of pakistan---and what the enhanced power would do to the regional peace---.

Forgive my ignorance but USA has so much advance equipment and yet it took 17 years and still no victory in Afghanistan why? Weapons are not everything. Chinese weapons don't shoot samosas they also fire bullets. USA had an industrial advantage which now China has more.

PAF has what it always wanted a single engine jet and that jet is better than any just ask the IAF who said they are not equipped to face PAF. Now that is an insult for USA don't you think?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It's more healthier to buy from different countries

> 6 Coast guard ships from China
> 2 OPV from Holland (Damen Shipping)
> Radars for Ships from Turkey
> JF-17 , engineering collaboration contract with France for small consulting
> SAM from China (Medium / Long range)
> Mi-35 Anti Terrorism Helicopters from Russia
> HAMZA APC , collaboration with European nation
> Multiple contenders for Pakistan's Soldier Rifle Program
> Milgem Corvettes from Turkey
> Scientific Sea research Ship from China
> Oil and Gas search platform rental with collaboration from Italy and US
> MOU with Czech republic
> Tank Improvement with Ukraine old contract
> Romania making Damen ship for Pakistan
> Possible arrival of 80 More mirages from Egypt
> Space program and astronaut deal with China
> Submarine 8 + 4 Heavy Frigate with China
> 10-12 Countries eager to build cars in Pakistan
> Turkey - Pakistan Historic Helicopter deal
> Pakistan - South Africa MOU
> Shipping Industry Improvements collaboration on going with multiple countries
> Inter City Buses from South Korea, Air-conditioned and fantastic
> Civilian Locomotives for Passenger trains , USA - China
> 4-8 Sea King Helicopters from UK


We place orders normally with USA but their delivery was not on time so it hurt our deals
it was unfortunate but , we had to get stuff from else where. The issue with US was delivery on Time , which may resolve over time not initiated from Pakistan's side

 

[LeGenD]

Forgive my ignorance but USA has so much advance equipment and yet it took 17 years and still no victory in Afghanistan why? Weapons are not everything. Chinese weapons don't shoot samosas they also fire bullets. USA had an industrial advantage which now China has more.

PAF has what it always wanted a single engine jet and that jet is better than any just ask the IAF who said they are not equipped to face PAF. Now that is an insult for USA don't you think?

The only major clash between US-led forces and Afghan Taliban occurred in Afghanistan during the period (October 2001 - June 2002) when Afghan Taliban were controlling 90% of Afghanistan including Kabul.

FYI: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR381.html

And US-led forces utterly humiliated Afghan Taliban in this particular clash.

"U.S. forces were surprisingly successful in toppling the Taliban. The rigorous preparation of SOF clearly paid off. Air-land operations were decisive. Small-unit soldiers and leaders passed the tests of the harsh Afghan environment. Force protection, logistics operations, and communications each worked well."

After that clash, remnants of Afghan Taliban fled to Pakistan and Iran in order to regroup and bid their time. When US-led forces withdrew from Afghanistan in large numbers in 2014, Afghan Taliban re-surged soon after with a fresh bunch of fighters and took parts of Afghanistan by storm once again. Although US-backed Afghan government have held its ground since the resurgence of Afghan Taliban (2015 and onwards), it is not up to the task of expanding its footprint across entire Afghanistan due to internal corruption and unreliable ANA. This dynamic have frustrated US actually.

US was more interested in sorting out the matters of Middle East and Africa than Afghanistan. However, US did manage to eradicate Al-Qaeda Network across Afghanistan and Pakistan by 2011, and helped Pakistan in clearing its lands from TTP via numerous drone strikes (the first of its kind in history).

There is no such thing as "yet it took 17 years and still no victory in Afghanistan" - complete misreading of developments in Afghanistan. US-led forces utterly humiliated Afghan Taliban and pulled off 'regime change' in Afghanistan in a span of few months (October 2001 - June 2002). However, Afghan Taliban re-surged in 2015 after US-led forces withdrew from Afghanistan in large numbers in 2014.

What do you expect US to do now? Invade Afghanistan again?

American military is very strong and capable, and will deliver results in any theater, but it is up to American politicians to make the most out of these accomplishments in the aftermath, but sometimes they do not.

 

[PDF]

We continue to have good military relationship with America. Although, we have diversified our inventory, we still use and depend upon American equipment in many ways.
Us not buying or getting equipment recently is only a hiatus.
However, we are now far independent from Uncle Sam's weapons. It was only our backbone in the past.

P.S: We might get the AH1Z a bit late but we will hopefully get Swift Corvettes soon.