Pakistan slams Pentagon, summons US ambassador over report accusing it of harbouring terrorist

[Bratva]

Oh dear. That is so misleading. I hope you did it on purpose.

Those terrorists who landed on 9/11 were under surveillance. May be. Was there intelligence lapse in gauging their intentions? Possibly. What did not happen was they didn't build a palatial property near the most secure military facility in US, cut it off of all forms of communications and hid the MOST WANTED PERSON ON EARTH and went on about their business! That is not called intelligence 'lapse". That is called COMPLICITY.

What happened in that raid in Abbottabad was no intelligence failure. And even if one assumes what you are saying is true, after all we also listen to General Musharraf occasionally, this paints a pretty dismal picture of ISI. Please do tell what earth shattering action did you take against your officers for this unpardonable lapse of harbouring the world's foremost terrorist apart from making lame excuses.

And as for pakistan not harbouring any terrorists, less said about it the better.

26/11 was a a intelligence lapse too right ? Didn't terrorist stayed under the radar long enough to avoid detection and launch an attack ? Then blaming attack on pakistan is also a lame excuse from you side going by your own logic.

Yes ISI does display traits of incompetence time to time so does everybody and when ISI don't know about OBL how it is going to take action against specific officers ? Heck, this whole incident made accountable.

Have you heard America accusing Pakistan sheltering OBL? So do you got any proof which make ISI complicit in this act or the logic why do they do it even in first place?

 

[k_arura]

Who harbour terrorists ? CIA were surveilling 9/11 bombers from Mid-2000. Despite that bombers landed in America, took flying lessons, but nobody says CIA harboured these terrorists but a intelligence lapse and misc-communication. Likewise that's what occured with OBL.

Come out of delusions Pakistan harbour such terrorists

A big big diff mate.

OBL was a known quantity since 2001 while these others you refer to became really known POST 911. Gittit?

26/11 was a a intelligence lapse too right ? Didn't terrorist stayed under the radar long enough to avoid detection and launch an attack ? Then blaming attack on pakistan is also a lame excuse from you side going by your own logic.

Yes ISI does display traits of incompetence time to time so does everybody and when ISI don't know about OBL how it is going to take action against specific officers ? Heck, this whole incident made accountable.

Have you heard America accusing Pakistan sheltering OBL? So do you got any proof which make ISI complicit in this act or the logic why do they do it even in first place?

Or might I dare say traits of "willful" incompetence? On "Have you heard America accusing Pakistan sheltering OBL? " boy either you haven't been to US in a while or ever or are a complete ignoramus.

 

[Bratva]

I think i was not clear. I'm not saying fake passport can not be obtained. I'm saying once he was arrested in saudi, pakistan would have quickly ascertained that his was a fake passport (or genuine passport obtained under fake details).

Yet they wanted him sent to pakistan.

Thats harboring terrorists.

and once this was ascertained that he was fake, he was handed over to India ASAP. It is you making conspiracy theories pakistan insisted on his return to Pakistan after knowing his true identity.

Like wise if a man named with Raj chopra name written on Indian passport arrested on Saudia arabia , is infact Pakistani wanted by Pakistan and both instead of informing India about it make a deal to hand him over to Pakistan, India first reaction would be same that to return his citizen back to India.

A big big diff mate.

OBL was a known quantity since 2001 while these others you refer to became really known POST 911. Gittit?



Or might I dare say traits of "willful" incompetence?

No it's not different at all. CIA failed to inform FBI about the terrorists. Why is that ? They knew from tracking those malaysian meetings in 2000 about the identities of some who would attack America. Why did they hold back those identities from FBI ?
You are not making sense and indulging in Wild conspiracy theories. Bring facts which proves what Pakistan would have gained hosting OBL at it's soil wilfully. Like the facts that I posted through which I ascertained how Indian MI is helping Afghans to create a proxy war in Pakistan.

 

[k_arura]

guys
I have a suggestion to solve this issue once and for all
we people of Pakistan will really want the end to this proxy wars and we will do what we can to stop it if its happening from Pakistan. we have removed both the Democratic and military dictators from the offices so we shouldn't be taken lightly


oh yea the suggestion

what about instituting a team of say 3 or 4 neutral countries along with the members from India, Pakistan and Afghanistan and America and then Pakistan arrange their visit to all suspected sites where these training camps, or hide outs are, let the teams speak to the people freely and if such places are found they are dismantled on the order of Pakistan supreme court and the responsible people charged. if nothing is found then such allegation be put to rest

once that is done


we move to the interesting part

how about we repeat the process along the Pak Afghan border and visit say Kunar and Nooristan? and get the guys expelled or handed over to Pakistan? charge the complicit Afghans punched by the Afghan government? and see if indeed those Indian cultural centers are doing doing something culturally or are more interested in cross border activities of BLA?

I am not aware of any terrorist camps in India today like in the past there were training MQM camps when MQM was openly fighting against the Pakistan state and the working of Makti bahani terrorist training in India is well known and Indians even brag about it since they got their desired outcome. if there are any Indian terrorist camps in India then they also be visited and dismantled


in summary, the Blackops activities of assassinations, subversion, unrest , funding etc be discontinued and once we have purged these elements then we join hands and curb the funding and inflow of funds and terrorists from central Asia and Middle east .


Or we just ignore everything Pakistan says and only focus on Pakistan and continue to blame it whether or not such places are found or not? (we tried that it didnt work)


trust me Americans and Indians and "innocent peace loving Afghans" we Pakistani people are really fed up with this proxy war because we have suffered a lot so we will like to help you to deny terrorists from using our land against other countries. should we expect the same favor from you? would you address our concerns? hmmm?

I think the Afhgans would like to give you a chance and time to get even MORE fed up before to agreeing to such a proposal.

and once this was ascertained that he was fake, he was handed over to India ASAP. It is you making conspiracy theories pakistan insisted on his return to Pakistan after knowing his true identity.

Like wise if a man named with Raj chopra name written on Indian passport arrested on Saudia arabia , is infact Pakistani wanted by Pakistan and both instead of informing India about it make a deal to hand him over to Pakistan, India first reaction would be same that to return his citizen back to India.



No it's not different at all. CIA failed to inform FBI about the terrorists. Why is that ? They knew from tracking those malaysian meetings in 2000 about the identities of some who would attack America. Why did they hold back those identities from FBI ?
You are not making sense and indulging in Wild conspiracy theories. Bring facts which proves what Pakistan would have gained hosting OBL at it's soil wilfully. Like the facts that I posted through which I ascertained how Indian MI is helping Afghans to create a proxy war in Pakistan.

Please stop using - a lot of Pak anchors/media people use this logic too - this self serving logic about who gains and loses. By that metric Pak should NEVER persist in making J&K as a do or die issue knowing that the only choice India will leave it with is "die." So back off from these kinds of (though very rational but I am sorry don't apply to Pak and many others) arguments

 

[arbit]

26/11 was a a intelligence lapse too right ? Didn't terrorist stayed under the radar long enough to avoid detection and launch an attack ? Then blaming attack on pakistan is also a lame excuse from you side going by your own logic.

Yes ISI does display traits of incompetence time to time so does everybody and when ISI don't know about OBL how it is going to take action against specific officers ? Heck, this whole incident made accountable.

Have you heard America accusing Pakistan sheltering OBL? So do you got any proof which make ISI complicit in this act or the logic why do they do it even in first place?

That is the moot point. The logic. But does anything makes sense in Pakistan now a days? That blast at Wagah made sense? Heck, imagining what could have been told to that guy to blow himself up and kill innocents is beyond me. And that too Pakistanis, muslims on top of that. Doesn't make sense at all.

I am not debating on the logic of this action. The fact is OBL was hiding, nay, living with his wives and sheeps in reasonable comfort. He wasn't in a cave. He was in Abbottabad, near your most secure Military facility with military intelligence operating in vicinity.

What could have prompted him to buy that piece of land, build it up and set up base? What could be his motivations? Did he find that place safest? Ofcourse he did. Why? what made him so sure that he would be safe there ?

Frankly Sir, I cannot disprove of what you say. Its your organization after all and I cannot be the one to pontificate on its competence. But you have to understand if we take it with a rather large pinch of salt.

 

[Donatello]

Pakistan harbors the terrorists, yet Americans keep doling their cash out. Hmmm.....something is missing.

 

[VCheng]

National interests are a misnomer. There are elites in every nation, and their interests must be served first.

No, national interests is the correct term. Who defines them may vary country by country, but national interests they are.

 

[Bratva]

That is the moot point. The logic. But does anything makes sense in Pakistan now a days? That blast at Wagah made sense? Heck, imagining what could have been told to that guy to blow himself up and kill innocents is beyond me. And that too Pakistanis, muslims on top of that. Doesn't make sense at all.

I am not debating on the logic of this action. The fact is OBL was hiding, nay, living with his wives and sheeps in reasonable comfort. He wasn't in a cave. He was in Abbottabad, near your most secure Military facility with military intelligence operating in vicinity.

What could have prompted him to buy that piece of land, build it up and set up base? What could be his motivations? Did he find that place safest? Ofcourse he did. Why? what made him so sure that he would be safe there ?

Frankly Sir, I cannot disprove of what you say. Its your organization after all and I cannot be the one to pontificate on its competence. But you have to understand if we take it with a rather large pinch of salt.

If you have read OBL incident in detail, do you know, On whose name, this house was bought ? It was a Pakistani some guy named Haji for whom the house was bought. The house was in a pashtun locality. meaning very conservative. THe women don't go out, children rarely roams free. So the house doesn't raised any red flags neither people complained to police about suspicious activities emanating from such house. Neither There was any electronic emissions coming out from house through.

OBL moved there because of the most conservative locality, Military academy nearby which would make ISI less prone to look in to that area thinking it would be covered by Military intelligence and Local police informers.

So pray tell us,How come ISI would have known about the family residing in the house when there weren't any red flags raised. Neither through electronic emissions nor through human intelligence ?

Don't you see the psychological advantage he exploited i.e. Taking advantage of human psyche that All is well in a particular area and doesn't check it often

Now coming to Intelligence lape. ISI caught Indonesian terrorist from abbottabad in 2010. ISI became relax that all is well in that area and it paid the price of it's negligence dearly.

 

[C130]

so when is the report going to come out about Saudi Arabia and Qatar harboring,training, and funding terrorists???

 

[JohnyD]

koi shak!

 

[xTra]

I read all the post, please reply do you still feel 9/11 was insider job.

Why would I feel or think that ?[/QUOTE]

I am extremely sorry you are right, Pentagon report is wrong.

 

[haviZsultan]

How many such reports will we ignore. Perhaps its time to pull away from America.

They don't trust us, we don't trust them, we accuse them of training insurgents in Afghanistan and supporting India. They accuse us of harboring terrorists. I wonder if this alliance can really work.

Mark my words it is not going to be long when the US abandons Pakistan completely as they did after we Afghan Soviet war and left us to deal with the problems caused by their dumb Jihad against the soviets. We should never have helped US train terrorists and the so called mujahideen during the Afghan Soviet war.

Also lets not forget the Pressler amendment which banned military sales to Pakistan even though Pakistan had just helped beat the Soviets on America's wish.

I am not aware of any terrorist camps in India today like in the past there were training MQM camps when MQM was openly fighting against the Pakistan state and the working of Makti bahani terrorist training in India is well known and Indians even brag about it since they got their desired outcome. if there are any Indian terrorist camps in India then they also be visited and dismantled

Mqm still has training camps. Ever heard of Syed Jamaluddin who wants to break Pakistan by creating Jinnahpur?

Then there are people like Saulat Mirza and Ajmal Pahari. Ajmal in his video told the investigators they were trained by Indian assets in the country and were then returned back after their training was accomplished.

Ethnic politics leads to only death and destruction. MQM has no intention on resolving the disputes because until they keep crying "oppressed muhajir" people will continue following them. Forget that urdu speakers (I hate that term and Muhajir too) have already the primacy of their language urdu over the rest of Pakistan. Forget our families also have a gdp per capita13,000 rupees more than the punjabis. Forget that they are controlling almost the entire state including the provincial capital when they are outnumbered by Sindhis.

The muhajir will always remain "oppressed" no matter what you do and he will always be drowning in self pity about how his rights have been taken from him.

I am severely against ethnic ideals leading a party, particularly because of the MQM. In understand BSO Pajjer or Baloch National Party led by Akhtar Mengal does not aim to break the state, I still feel edgy when dealing with parties that are based on ethnicity.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch please share your honest answer. Dawood ibrahim (whose entire family openly lives in Pakistan (although they are indian)), do you think he's not in pakistan?
?

dont stop at one person dont limit yourself to one individual like Hafis Saeed or Dawood or say Herbayar Bughti or say Mullah Fazlullah etc. I am talking about the full deal . complete cleanup process. no exceptions.

@nair neutrals like say Japan, Sri Lanka , Turkey or Malaysia (just examples) that enjoy respect and trust from all 3 countries will ensure that we dont just blame and counter blame each other like Kashmir issue, where either side blames the other for stalling the peace process and talks and we are on to square one. I am talking on the lines of say InterPol or UN inspection thing .. if you put the pride to one side and be really sincere about peace and end of mutual proxy wars then no foreign terrorism will be able to affect us. problem with us 3 is that we ABSOLUTELY ignore the protests of the other party, even boast and showcase the antagonists to others to tease (e.g Dawood Ibrahim from us to you, Mullah Fazlullah from Northern Alliance to us, and Herbayar & Bramdagh (now in Europe) from you guys to us as an example).

 

[notsuperstitious]

dont stop at one person dont limit yourself to one individual like Hafis Saeed or Dawood or say Herbayar Bughti or say Mullah Fazlullah etc. I am talking about the full deal . complete cleanup process. no exceptions.

@nair neutrals like say Japan, Sri Lanka , Turkey or Malaysia (just examples) that enjoy respect and trust from all 3 countries will ensure that we dont just blame and counter blame each other like Kashmir issue, where either side blames the other for stalling the peace process and talks and we are on to square one. I am talking on the lines of say InterPol or UN inspection thing .. if you put the pride to one side and be really sincere about peace and end of mutual proxy wars then no foreign terrorism will be able to affect us. problem with us 3 is that we ABSOLUTELY ignore the protests of the other party, even boast and showcase the antagonists to others to tease (e.g Dawood Ibrahim from us to you, Mullah Fazlullah from Northern Alliance to us, and Herbayar & Bramdagh (now in Europe) from you guys to us as an example).

I can not disagree what you seek to achieve is noble.. Its just not practical though.

 

[WAR-rior]

kindly back it with some proper sources , where you read that US aid only goes to Army ?

Arre Kaka, Whole world knows that US gives Aid to Pakistan for its own operation which are aided on Pakistani soil by none other than Pak Army.