Pakistan seeks new US deal after returning nine choppers

[VCheng]

The Russians have closed down some design bureaux due to the lack of work on hand.

Yes, but it means the workforce just moves over under another banner, sort of like Boeing taking over McDonnell Douglas. New platforms are now a team sport.

Correct me if anything I said was wrong. It was designed by MBB. It was not a collaborative JV. MBB was given a turn key contract to design the helicopter. The engine is French and Avionics Israeli.

Would you like to apply the same standards to another platform, for example the JF-17?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Correct me if anything I said was wrong. It was designed by MBB. It was not a collaborative JV. MBB was given a turn key contract to design the helicopter. The engine is French and Avionics Israeli.

I appreciate the far more courteous tone.

First, there was a contract in 1984 or 1985 where MBB was contracted by HAL,weeks after HAL got the turnkey contract, for design consultancy and collaboration. They were never given a turnkey contract.

Second, there was a joint venture between Turbomeca and HAL, who had collaborated from Alouette days on engine manufacture at HAL, under license from Turbomeca. This joint venture ran afoul of the embargo following the nuclear test at Pokhran, and weaker substitute engines had to be used (also from Turbomeca). At this point, the prototypes could not achieve the physical performance parameters specified by the Air Force, although I believe IN parameters were achieved (the IAF had specified a chopper capable of very high altitude flight, and a rapid rate of climb).

The revised engine, jointly developed by HAL and Turbomeca, resolved all of the specification shortcomings.

Israel had a lot to do with the instrumentation and avionics of the Dhruva. It is wild exaggeration to say that it was entirely Israeli.

Yes, but it means the workforce just moves over under another banner, sort of like Boeing taking over McDonnell Douglas. New platforms are now a team sport.

So sorry, did I give the impression that the engineers of the closed bureau were thrown out of work? The closed bureaux were merged with others.

Would you like to apply the same standards to another platform, for example the JF-17?

 

[Maxpane]

china china china

 

[Joe Shearer]

china china china

Are you referring to tableware or to the nation-state?

 

[monitor]

china china china

Going to China for everything is not a good idea. You need to diversify your opinion and gradual independent of big ticket item.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I appreciate the far more courteous tone.

First, there was a contract in 1984 or 1985 where MBB was contracted by HAL,weeks after HAL got the turnkey contract, for design consultancy and collaboration. They were never given a turnkey contract.

Second, there was a joint venture between Turbomeca and HAL, who had collaborated from Alouette days on engine manufacture at HAL, under license from Turbomeca. This joint venture ran afoul of the embargo following the nuclear test at Pokhran, and weaker substitute engines had to be used (also from Turbomeca). At this point, the prototypes could not achieve the physical performance parameters specified by the Air Force, although I believe IN parameters were achieved (the IAF had specified a chopper capable of very high altitude flight, and a rapid rate of climb).

The revised engine, jointly developed by HAL and Turbomeca, resolved all of the specification shortcomings.

Israel had a lot to do with the instrumentation and avionics of the Dhruva. It is wild exaggeration to say that it was entirely Israeli.



So sorry, did I give the impression that the engineers of the closed bureau were thrown out of work? The closed bureaux were merged with others.

Revised engine isnt a JV... it is an Ardiden engine... also used by russia and china.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

china china china

Having powerful friends is good.
Having many powerful friends is excellent.
Having just one powerful friend is fatal.

 

[Huan]

For GOD sake stop going after USA and get helicopters from either Russia or Europe

or China. You will get a good deal most likely from China.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Revised engine isnt a JV... it is an Ardiden engine... also used by russia and china.

The Turbomeca TM 333-2B2 turboshaft engine was selected as a replacement; in addition Turbomeca agreed to develop a more powerful engine with HAL, originally known as the Ardiden.[14]

I was there at AeroIndia, when they announced this jointly. Turbomeca may well have sold it to Russia and to China, as they had the right to do. Whether there was an older engine based on which this was developed, I don't know.

Having powerful friends is good.
Having many powerful friends is excellent.
Having just one powerful friend is fatal.

Well, you are heading that way. Asad Durrani notwithstanding. I think his recent interview was whistling past the graveyard.

 

[Banglar Bir]

Pakistan trying to crack a fresh helicopter deal with the US!
SAM Report, November 1, 2017

Pakistan is trying to crack a new deal to reacquire an unspecified number of helicopters to carry out anti-narcotics operations in FATA and Balochistan.
After returning four earlier this month, Pakistan on Monday returned five of the nine Huey II helicopters it received as part of a deal in 2002.
Pakistan received 12 planes in the deal which included 3 Cessna Airplanes. Primarily geared against the smuggling of narcotics, the planes also were used for surveillance in FATA and Balochistan during counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operations.

Pakistan had the option of returning or buying the planes after the expiry of the indenture; it exercised the later. However, Islamabad did buy the three Cessna planes.
With the US having already redirected the Huey II choppers for sale to a third party, Pakistan will have to crack a new deal.
Also Read: Pakistan against US drone deal with India: FO
The need to renegotiate the deal was felt by the new interior minister, Ahsan Iqbal who conveyed Islamabad’s embassy in Washington to work out the contours of the deal for his ministry. Iqbal’s predecessor, Chaudhary Nisar, who was often found to be reticent of excessive foreign footprints in his ministry might have pushed against the deal.

Iqbal sees security as an all-encompassing concept and is cognizant of the critical link between narcotics and terror-financing. The desire to acquire these choppers can be seen as part of the new wave of cooperation between the two countries to choke and hunt terrorists.

Watchers are conscious of the fact that despite the very many differences, the US and Pakistan have stepped up cooperation to root out terrorism from the troubled Af-Pak border region. Choking narcotics smuggling will go a long way in denying miscreants the ability to effectively launch attacks. Iqbal is well aware that this falls under the ambit of his ministry.

Diplomatic sources are confident that an agreement will be reached as the US is mindful of the close link between narcotics and terror-financing.

The Bell Huey II helicopters are ideal for search and rescue operations. It is also suited to carry out other operations with the helicopter having the ability to configure according to various mission needs. The availability of special operational equipment, allow it to carry out insertion/extraction, patrol, and other tactical operations.
Also Read: Tillerson-Ghani meeting speaks volumes of American failures in Afghanistan: Asif
The US sold 24 Bell helicopters to Mexico for its anti-drug drive. The country is expanding its fleet to locate, spray and eradicate marijuana and poppy plantations usually located in the mountainous regions of Mexico.

Given the fact that the remnants of terrorists, albeit far and few are located in the rugged and mountainous terrain of the Af-Pak border, these helicopters could really help Pakistan in pulling the plug on the thriving narcotics trade.
SOURCE GLOBAL VILLAGE SPACE
https://southasianmonitor.com/2017/11/01/pakistan-trying-crack-fresh-helicopter-deal-us/

 

[Signalian]

The Bell Huey II helicopters are ideal for search and rescue operations. It is also suited to carry out other operations with the helicopter having the ability to configure according to various mission needs. The availability of special operational equipment, allow it to carry out insertion/extraction, patrol, and other tactical operations.

So is Z-9, NH-90, EC-725 and other military transport helicopters. They are all configurable for many different mission needs.

 

[Rank]

Jab dubara rent pe he lenay hey tu go for Stallion

 

[IceCold]

I dont understand why would you return them only to ask for them latter? I think US did offer to keep the helis however the interior ministry at the time chose not too.

 

[Signalian]

Jab dubara rent pe he lenay hey tu go for Stallion

Stallion is a heavy chopper and wont be used for the role for which Pakistan requires helicopters.

 

[Trango Towers]

I dont understand why would you return them only to ask for them latter? I think US did offer to keep the helis however the interior ministry at the time chose not too.

Have you considered the age of the helicopters. Replace them with new ones. Remember these were heavily subsidised due to American narcotics tracking. Pakistan Did the right thing