Pakistan receives LD-10 Anti-radiation missiles

[zebra7]

Actually to be fair, the Babur & Ra'ad can be used in conventional terms and can strike Indian ground radars. The Americans have been masters of using similar subsonic cruise missiles to take out mostly Russian air defense systems in Iraq. Also to be clear, my post wasn't in regards to the Russian 300/S-400 systems but against India's fielding of robust Israeli and western ecm & jamming technology. I don't have much faith in these Russian systems which have repeatedly proven to be duds in war.

Also for detecting, I think the Erieye can detect ground radars & air defense systems. No?

May be you are right, but my point is if a missile is declared as a strategic, aka meant for the Nuclear Strike, then any detection in the Radar, by looking at its flight tragectory, radiation or characteristic -- the way the type of missile are detected positively, will lead to the Nuclear retaliation count down started, which is my assumption. Yes this could be debatable, may be some senior poster would like to comment on it.

@PARIKRAMA @Horus @waz @Abingdonboy @hellfire @MilSpec @Nilgiri

 

[notorious_eagle]

No HQ-9 system is in service (yet).

It's an open secret now, in fact leaked on this very website. PAF deployed HQ-9 Batteries on its forward locations Post Mumbai Attacks. To be specific, the batteries are called FT-2000.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Dear Marlin, its not the ARM missile what matters, rather the precise detection of the Radar, Airdefence that matters. For example, if you want to deliver the ARM missile on the Ground SAM system, then you can't depend on the RWR warning system to give you the coordinates, because it will only gave you the warning, type, and the direction, rather a HADF Pod, which will give the precise coordinates, which will be feed and programmed to the on board ARM missile before launching. In case of IAF, we have SIVA HADF pod, which could do the Job, so you should ask the Pakistani members how are you gonna detect the Radar, and its position.

Second, when we talk about the SEAD and the DEAD operation, now the IAF are going to get a good capability with Super Sukhoi with SEAD aka Kriniti Jammer, Aerial Decoy MK-2, Siva HADF, 6 KH-31PD ARM, and Jaguar/Rafale F3R for DEAD operation. For DEAD operation, Super Sukhoi armed with 6 Brahmos-NG per aircraft, gives hell lot of capability. Did you realized, why IAF send its Jaguars and MKI to the Nevada for the exercise in USA, so that to learn, and develop new tactics. Did you realized why IAF goes for the sucidal UAV Herons from Israel for the ARM attack on the Radar installation for the SEAD operation. Do you realized, why India is investing in K-100 Navator long range radar to target the AWAACS to make them blind. In short, to cripple our western enemy airdefence and airsuperiority within 72 hours.

i cant imagine precision being of concern once the radar its close enoughthen its basically the job it do the deed and finish it.

i cant imagine the mki's carrying 6 brahmos missiles at one time even though it can.
thr Kriniti Jammer you mentioned is rather old. the kh-31 and the a-27 there are both old. the onlything interesting is the k-100
the iai heron is not a sucide drone. i think you meant the iai herop
do note you wont be able to "cripple" you neighbours airdefences in 72 hours. from a range of 400km the target can easily move to sefety well before the k100 comes in. thats one of the down side to haveing a long range missile.

 

[Signalian]

It's an open secret now, in fact leaked on this very website. PAF deployed HQ-9 Batteries on its forward locations Post Mumbai Attacks. To be specific, the batteries are called FT-2000.

Glad to know its concrete.

In October 2003, it was reported that China had closed a deal with its neighbor, Pakistan, to supply the latter with an unspecified number of FT-2000 missiles to counter India’s early warning capabilities. The China-Pakistan deal followed India’s own arrangement with Israel and Russia to install three Israeli Phalcon AWACS on Ilyushin Il-76 freighter aircraft, thus giving it an airborne early warning system. According to various news sources, shortly after India announced its acquisition of the Phalcon radars, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the head of Pakistan’s air force, visited China and conveyed Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s wish to purchase an unspecified number of FT-2000s.

 

[zebra7]

i cant imagine precision being of concern once the radar its close enoughthen its basically the job it do the deed and finish it.

i cant imagine the mki's carrying 6 brahmos missiles at one time even though it can.
thr Kriniti Jammer you mentioned is rather old. the kh-31 and the a-27 there are both old. the onlything interesting is the k-100
the iai heron is not a sucide drone. i think you meant the iai herop
do note you wont be able to "cripple" you neighbours airdefences in 72 hours. from a range of 400km the target can easily move to sefety well before the k100 comes in. thats one of the down side to haveing a long range missile.

Its the Brahmos-NG which is smaller, lighter, but with the same range of 300 km, and 6 because of the strengthening of the airframe of the MKI.

Kriniti Jammer too gets upgradation, because upgradation keeps on going, and so do the old KH-31 like the Su-27 which is the base class of the SU-30 MKI/SM/Su-35, and you can't call them old duds. So when I say KH-31 its KH-31 PD with new seeker, also with the PAK-FA development, the new generation of the ARM missile based on KH-31 is been developed.

You are right HEROP and it could lottoire over a terrain before it lands on the Radar installation.

K-100 Won't be necessary fire, even acquiring them makes the PAF AEW platform vunerable, why ?? If carried by MKI, the range of the MKI would allow to go round the sea and target them from different angle. And those Awaacs platform have few bases, and the moment the clash would errupt, those would be the primrary target of the ground Brahmos-1, and without bases the Awaacs would be just the sitting ducks. Right Dude.

 

[Mrc]

I think every one needs to keep in mind the modern era of drones and swarms of drones will force radars to be active making tbem vulnerable to ARM strikes ....

I can foresee a missile like LD 10 can be mounted on a drone itself making it a very effective kill machine

 

[Blue Marlin]

Its the Brahmos-NG which is smaller, lighter, but with the same range of 300 km, and 6 because of the strengthening of the airframe of the MKI.

Kriniti Jammer too gets upgradation, because upgradation keeps on going, and so do the old KH-31 like the Su-27 which is the base class of the SU-30 MKI/SM/Su-35, and you can't call them old duds. So when I say KH-31 its KH-31 PD with new seeker, also with the PAK-FA development, the new generation of the ARM missile based on KH-31 is been developed.

You are right HEROP and it could lottoire over a terrain before it lands on the Radar installation.

K-100 Won't be necessary fire, even acquiring them makes the PAF AEW platform vunerable, why ?? If carried by MKI, the range of the MKI would allow to go round the sea and target them from different angle. And those Awaacs platform have few bases, and the moment the clash would errupt, those would be the primrary target of the ground Brahmos-1, and without bases the Awaacs would be just the sitting ducks. Right Dude.

yes i was refering to the brahmos-ng, 6 is to much.
any source to confirm india is actually upgrading the pods and the missiles in question?

do you think awacs are only looking over india and not behind their backs?..........common sense there. awacs are not limited by the bases. and every aircraft from both sides are sitting ducks due to the point in time they need refueling.

 

[Tipu7]

May be you are right, but my point is if a missile is declared as a strategic, aka meant for the Nuclear Strike, then any detection in the Radar, by looking at its flight tragectory, radiation or characteristic -- the way the type of missile are detected positively, will lead to the Nuclear retaliation count down started, which is my assumption. Yes this could be debatable, may be some senior poster would like to comment on it.

@PARIKRAMA @Horus @waz @Abingdonboy @hellfire @MilSpec @Nilgiri

No No.
Firstly, Babur can be deployed for both strategic & conventional role.
In fact there are two version of it, one which is well known is nuclear capable and other is for specific conventional role. It is meant to penetrate in Indian ballistic defense systems as well as air defense in order to render them use less against of ballistic missiles or air crafts.
This missile was particularly developed by keeping it's usage as SEAD asset.....
And yes, it can house conventional war head as well as anti radar seeker.

As far as point of nuclear retaliation by observing "possible nuclear capable missile approach" is concerned, well that is very different thing. Cruise missiles have varying ballistic paths and remote trajectories. By judging trajectory, flight path, possible target it's pretty easy to assume that what type of warhead missile is carrying .
And no one neither respond aggressively by "suspecting" a nuclear capable missile launch nor the enemy fires a lone less leathel sub sonic cruise missile to start a nuclear war

Glad to know its concrete.

In October 2003, it was reported that China had closed a deal with its neighbor, Pakistan, to supply the latter with an unspecified number of FT-2000 missiles to counter India’s early warning capabilities. The China-Pakistan deal followed India’s own arrangement with Israel and Russia to install three Israeli Phalcon AWACS on Ilyushin Il-76 freighter aircraft, thus giving it an airborne early warning system. According to various news sources, shortly after India announced its acquisition of the Phalcon radars, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the head of Pakistan’s air force, visited China and conveyed Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s wish to purchase an unspecified number of FT-2000s.

Interesting .......
But it's still a rumor ......
Damn, they neither admit it nor deny it.
I just did a failed attempt to get information about Zarb missile, and I was just denied

 

[Basel]

In case of what India have, did you forgot the development of NGARM Missile (Range 100-125 km) been developed by the DRDO.

From Russia

KH 31 PD -- A2G

Novatar KS–172 ARM Missile -- Range 300 KM and 400 KM (Anti Awaac) -- Under Development.

R-27EP AA-10 Alamo-F, a longer range passive anti-radiation missile with a range of up to 70 nm (110 km)

Future and Indian Interest

AGM-88 HARM This is U.S missiles, but Indian Airforce seems to be interesting in it. May be it could be attached with the Rafale deal, with french-U.S, or Indo-US deal have to be made.

KH-58USHKE

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/511/540/



Are you MTCR Signatory ??

It doesn't matter Pakistan and China knows how work it out. Silent ToT will do the job

 

[Bratva]

LD-10 ARM

SIPRI reports that Pakistan has received 50 (out of 100 ordered) LD-10 anti-radiation missiles from China in 2014 and 2015. These missiles were ordered in 2011.

Source: SIPRI

Take everything SIPRI says with a Big grain of Salt. Their sources of collecting data is hugely obscure and unverified. Lets analyze logically and factually. Have we seen JF-17 flying with LD-10 in china ? Because we know Most of the missiles it is integrated with were at one time photographed in china hanging with that said missile. This news is just a smoking gun. Nothing else.

It's an open secret now, in fact leaked on this very website. PAF deployed HQ-9 Batteries on its forward locations Post Mumbai Attacks. To be specific, the batteries are called FT-2000.

Most probably a leased system and returned back to China after a specific time frame.

No No.
Firstly, Babur can be deployed for both strategic & conventional role.
In fact there are two version of it, one which is well known is nuclear capable and other is for specific conventional role. It is meant to penetrate in Indian ballistic defense systems as well as air defense in order to render them use less against of ballistic missiles or air crafts.
This missile was particularly developed by keeping it's usage as SEAD asset.....
And yes, it can house conventional war head as well as anti radar seeker.

As far as point of nuclear retaliation by observing "possible nuclear capable missile approach" is concerned, well that is very different thing. Cruise missiles have varying ballistic paths and remote trajectories. By judging trajectory, flight path, possible target it's pretty easy to assume that what type of warhead missile is carrying .
And no one neither respond aggressively by "suspecting" a nuclear capable missile launch nor the enemy fires a lone less leathel sub sonic cruise missile to start a nuclear war


Interesting .......
But it's still a rumor ......
Damn, they neither admit it nor deny it.
I just did a failed attempt to get information about Zarb missile, and I was just denied

Unless they perfect the design of ZARB missile after couple of failures. Then they will leak you the news about this missile.

 

[war&peace]

Those comments reminds me of a story of an Ostrich which puts its head inside the Sand and predict she is safe in a storm. But BTW fantasy for Moral Boast.

On topic, and some FUNNY PART There have been some discussion of MAR-1 and LD-10 anti-radiation missile, but funny part is did any member here questioned whether MAR-1 is A2A Missile or LD-10 is a A2G anti-radiation Missile.

MAR-1 is an anti radiation missile, which is meant to attack the illuminating Ground Radar.
LD-10 is a SD-10 Derivative with anti radiation Seeker to attack the fighter planes which is guided toward the illuminating on board radar of the plane.

LD-10 is an A2G ARM. Try to update yourself before making funny comments otherwise you will end up embarrassed here.

 

[Falcon26]

May be you are right, but my point is if a missile is declared as a strategic, aka meant for the Nuclear Strike, then any detection in the Radar, by looking at its flight tragectory, radiation or characteristic -- the way the type of missile are detected positively, will lead to the Nuclear retaliation count down started, which is my assumption. Yes this could be debatable, may be some senior poster would like to comment on it.

@PARIKRAMA @Horus @waz @Abingdonboy @hellfire @MilSpec @Nilgiri

Thanks for raising this point. I am amazed by this repeated Indian claim of massive nuclear retaliation. According to Indians, India is an economic power house that is rapidly advancing economically while Pakistan is a failed state. In the event of a nuclear holocaust, who has more to lose? Pakistan or India?

In my view, the answer to this question makes it abundantly clear why a cold start or whatever start Indians come up with is imprudent and not thought through. It's foolhardy proposition to think that wars are fought according to your ideal terms.

 

[Nilgiri]

May be you are right, but my point is if a missile is declared as a strategic, aka meant for the Nuclear Strike, then any detection in the Radar, by looking at its flight tragectory, radiation or characteristic -- the way the type of missile are detected positively, will lead to the Nuclear retaliation count down started, which is my assumption. Yes this could be debatable, may be some senior poster would like to comment on it.

@PARIKRAMA @Horus @waz @Abingdonboy @hellfire @MilSpec @Nilgiri

With 24/7 surveillance by Indian AWACS with optimized algorithms to pick out low flying and even low RCS bogies (which India can test extensively during peacetime i.e right now...esp with Israeli cooperation)....India has a useful counter against the threat of long distance based strikes that seek to use cruise missiles (on top of what already is being developed/acquired for ballistic platforms). These algorithms (on top of using several real time advanced noise reduction filters) will use many of the components you are mentioning here.

A missile launched by pakistan will have a large defensive matrix and identification process in the long run to face with in India. India for now has a broad spectrum definition of what constitutes grounds for full retaliation....but I see this changing with time as India brings more technology and counters under its umbrella (though it may not do so officially). Its similar to how I believe NFU policy by India may also be more for peacetime prestige....I doubt India would forego an opportunity for a first strike on Pakistan nuclear assets using nuclear assets itself should a clear and relatively clean opportunity present itself....in the interest of saving many millions of civilian lives.

 

[war&peace]

I am not an Indian at all but thanks for your feedback.

Oh sorry that was wrong judgement on my part.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Why mount an LD10 on a drone and not just the seeker on a cheap one-way drone laden with explosives to lock on to them and take them out

I think every one needs to keep in mind the modern era of drones and swarms of drones will force radars to be active making tbem vulnerable to ARM strikes ....

I can foresee a missile like LD 10 can be mounted on a drone itself making it a very effective kill machine