Pakistan raised $8.57 Billion so far to rebuild from last year's flood: Information Minister Marriyum Aurangzeb

[RoadRunner401]

"Development Minister Andrew Mitchell said it would be much easier for the world to help Pakistan "if Pakistani taxpayers are seen to be playing a core part in this effort".

Well said! Our own haraam khori gets in the way unfortunately. Why blame the government always when we can't put money where our mouth is.

Well lets see 80 Ministers (almost all kindergarten failed individuals) majority with no portfolio followed by 2nd grade failed gernails (generals) crown corporations filled with retired and serving gernails costing almost as much as defense budgets , followed by Zardari Jr traveling the world on the tax payers dime for zero benefits to Pakistan, followed by Deep throat (Myram Safdar) living the life of luxury on a Pakistani tax payers dime followed by Prostitute Media bought by Taxpayers money should I go on?


What do we get for our taxes that we do pay, corrupt police that will not help, corrupt judiciary that only provides relief to Rich, gernails costing billions per year yet instead of doing their jobs which they get paid for they are busy running political parties and making videos of Pakistani civilians for personal use.

Sir the days of crocodile tears are gone you want me to pay taxes show me why...

 

[blain2]

Well lets see 80 Ministers (almost all kindergarten failed individuals) majority with no portfolio followed by 2nd grade failed gernails (generals) crown corporations filled with retired and serving gernails costing almost as much as defense budgets , followed by Zardari Jr traveling the world on the tax payers dime for zero benefits to Pakistan, followed by Deep throat (Myram Safdar) living the life of luxury on a Pakistani tax payers dime followed by Prostitute Media bought by Taxpayers money should I go on?


What do we get for our taxes that we do pay, corrupt police that will not help, corrupt judiciary that only provides relief to Rich, gernails costing billions per year yet instead of doing their jobs which they get paid for they are busy running political parties and making videos of Pakistani civilians for personal use.

Sir the days of crocodile tears are gone you want me to pay taxes show me why...

I have heard this narrative for close to 50 years in Pakistan i.e. "What do we get for our taxes?"

You get very little because we pay the lowest amount of taxes in the world which should be a sobering realization for us.

You keep on harping over perceived failures of ministers and generals or the thefts committed by Sharif and Zardari clans. Their entire collective stash (estimated to be around $40B by some outlets) is not enough to cover even 1 year's trade deficit of ours. So let's get off this silly political rhetoric and face the facts. We need some out of the box thinking to get Pakistan going again. (This is not to suggest the bastards who steal should not be convicted and jailed but their punishment is not a panacea for Pakistan.)

If you have an issue with how we compensate the generals, run an investigation on Bajwa's assets/taxes along with goodies given to other BPS-21 officers in our bureaucracy and curtail them. I am all for it because the military was and is not a profession for the rich. However, I am also aware that beyond all this noise about "billions stashed" this and that, even if every single paisa was recovered, it won't be enough to dent the annual deficit even for a year.

This corruption issue is an overblown canard to keep the nation distracted with false assurances similar to the oft-quoted claim of Pakistan having billions and trillions in mineral deposits. Reality: Khoda pahar, nikla chua.

Our only hope is to put the millions of useless population to work and tax their incomes. Otherwise nobody has any empathy for our self-inflicted fiscal challenges.

 

[Dalit]

A beggar nation that survives on loans, aid and handouts. The Pakistani generals, politicians and its cheerleaders actually celebrate loans and aid as an economic success.

 

[VCheng]

You get very little because we pay the lowest amount of taxes in the world which should be a sobering realization for us.

Incorrect. Pakistan's system of taxation is regressive that relies on high indirect taxes rather than progressive with direct taxes on incomes by design. The problem is that the two highest expenditures are defense and debt servicing, with much of what little is left frittered away by mismanagement and corruption.

 

[blain2]

Incorrect. Pakistan's system of taxation is regressive that relies on high indirect taxes rather than progressive with direct taxes on incomes by design. The problem is that the two highest expenditures are defense and debt servicing, with much of what little is left frittered away by mismanagement and corruption.

Very specifically, "high indirect taxes" are levied but what is recovered is dismally low. So our problem is not one of whether progressive taxation or another model would work. We don't pay in the first place on a vast majority of sales transactions as they are purposely kept outside of the book. Higher pricing is passed on to consumers but at the end the government remains broke since they never see the tax revenue. The order of expenditures by a wide margin is debt servicing first chewing up almost 36% of the budget and then defense in the high teens (16%).

 

[VCheng]

Very specifically, "high indirect taxes" are levied but what is recovered is dismally low. So our problem is not one of whether progressive taxation or another model would work. We don't pay in the first place on a vast majority of sales transactions as they are purposely kept outside of the book. Higher pricing is passed on to consumers but at the end the government remains broke since they never see the tax revenue. The order of expenditures by a wide margin is debt servicing first chewing up almost 36% of the budget and then defense in the high teens (16%).

True, but that revenue leakage is more for certain sectors, but not for certain others like energy, communications and to a lesser extent imports (except smuggling). I will agree with you that the whole system is asinine. What saddens me is that this lunacy is by design.

 

[GriffinsRule]

My friend, we give charity, so do other people and countries. There is this false perception that "Pakistanis give the most charity". I can guarantee, this is not correct. It's the same claim as "we are the most hospitable". How so? What measures have been used to come to this conclusion, nobody knows.

As a sidebar on this topic of charity being mixed up with taxes (not addressing you specifically), charity is not the same as paying obligatory taxes. We live in the country, use the roads, public transportation, rely on sewage (whatever decrepit system exists), send our kids to public schools (regardless of the shambles they are in), we (I mean all of us) owe taxes for this. There is nothing for free.

Just because I give zakat and sadaqa does not mean I don't owe taxes. Islam does not give us the allowance to forgo the obligations of the land just because we pay zakat/sadaqa.

So we need to get passed this hang up that a) I don't need to pay taxes b/c I pay zakat/sadaqa and b) Even if I pay, my taxes will be siphoned off by corrupt official. As citizens, our job is to pay what is due and then ask questions of those in the government.

In the case of b, most never bother paying yet expect services similar to first world countries. Our current account deficit clearly shows that our broke government does not have enough revenues coming in to pay our national dues and that is primarily due to such low tax recovery (one of the lowest in the world).


Better to get loans than grants/aid. In loans, there is some sense of izzat left. You loan money, then you return it. There is no free-loading in it. All countries of the world loan. Grants/aid are a curse.
All such appeals end up with pledges that have to be converted. The same happened after the 2005 earthquake.

Completely agree with you. I was specifically talking about charity/donations for disaster relief and not zakat etc. Was using my own family as a barometer. And yes "income" taxes are a complete different things which Pakistanis consistently fail at

 

[Dalit]

Well lets see 80 Ministers (almost all kindergarten failed individuals) majority with no portfolio followed by 2nd grade failed gernails (generals) crown corporations filled with retired and serving gernails costing almost as much as defense budgets , followed by Zardari Jr traveling the world on the tax payers dime for zero benefits to Pakistan, followed by Deep throat (Myram Safdar) living the life of luxury on a Pakistani tax payers dime followed by Prostitute Media bought by Taxpayers money should I go on?


What do we get for our taxes that we do pay, corrupt police that will not help, corrupt judiciary that only provides relief to Rich, gernails costing billions per year yet instead of doing their jobs which they get paid for they are busy running political parties and making videos of Pakistani civilians for personal use.

Sir the days of crocodile tears are gone you want me to pay taxes show me why...

That is another myth. As if paying taxes in Pakistan would improve anything. The bitter truth is that Pakistan is a failed society where only the elite are allowed to prosper. The rest are insignificant beings with very limited freedoms.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Total topi drama.
First and foremost these are pledges. Not a single is a commitment.
Second most are in the forms of loans, and not grants. So they do nothing to our debt, only increases it. Third these amounts are unlikely to come anytime soon so will have no material impact on short term currency crunch. We are on the last fumes of liquidity. I give us 30-90 days. Unless something drastic changes, I cannot see how we get out of this.

There are only 2 to 3 avenues for the government, and per my last reading only one of them is partially at play and that too does nothing but hide the facts, and delays the inevitable panic. Again this goose is cooked in 30-90 days. We are in a terrible situation, and all of this is being hidden. It amazes me at the hypocrisy of the media. Days away from economic collapse and mainstream is just playing the violin while Pompeii burns! During IK's tenure they were constantly in markets and talking to citizens on the back breaking inflation. Nowadays nothing.

 

[Dalit]

Total topi drama.
First and foremost these are pledges. Not a single is a commitment.
Second most are in the forms of loans, and not grants. So they do nothing to our debt, only increases it. Third these amounts are unlikely to come anytime soon so will have no material impact on short term currency crunch. We are on the last fumes of liquidity. I give us 30-90 days. Unless something drastic changes, I cannot see how we get out of this.

There are only 2 to 3 avenues for the government, and per my last reading only one of them is partially at play and that too does nothing but hide the facts, and delays the inevitable panic. Again this goose is cooked in 30-90 days. We are in a terrible situation, and all of this is being hidden. It amazes me at the hypocrisy of the media. Days away from economic collapse and mainstream is just playing the violin while Pompeii burns! During IK's tenure they were constantly in markets and talking to citizens on the back breaking inflation. Nowadays nothing.

Don't worry about the hypocritical Pakistani media. They are about to fall flat on their face. So much for shortlived cheerleading.

It is general knowledge that Pakistan is heading for a default. Not even Bajwa's grandpa can save the Pakistani economy from defaulting at this point. All these insignificant loans being provided by Arab and Western nations won't change anything.