Pakistan probably knew Bin Laden’s whereabouts, says former ISI chief!

[I.R.A]

Obl news has no significance any more. Its time came and is gone. Even after all the drsma, U S is still dependant upon pakistan to keep things in control in the neighborhood.

And that is what trolls here don't realise that their billions spent do not count. We lost billions but not our importance.

 

[Musafir117]

I'm totally agree here with @MastanKhan that our retired elite from Army should keep their mouth shut on sensitive issues, the secrets they discuss and share in CC meetings are Amanat of the nation and every single individual in service or retired should keep this intrust. Army should pass more strict bill regarding with retirees code of conduct to control their mouths.

 

[MastanKhan]

I'm totally agree here with @MastanKhan that our retired elite from Army should keep their mouth shut on sensitive issues, the secrets they discuss and share in CC meetings are Amanat of the nation and every single individual in service or retired should keep this intrust. Army should pass more strict bill regarding with retirees code of conduct to control their mouths.

Thankyou, and to top it off, no RETD. ISI chief sould give interviews without the prior consent of the agency regarding any subject matter.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Thankyou, and to top it off, no RETD. ISI chief sould give interviews without the prior consent of the agency regarding any subject matter.

Perfectly valid MK; but the problem is that many of the Khakis were power-centers in their own right much in excess of their rank, designation and status. Plus they have had a great fondness to stand as stars in the political firmament.
Do you think that you can ever reign in the likes of Musharrafff, Hamid Gul, Mirza Aslam Beg and the likes of them?

Those guys were not professional soldiers alone.

 

[MastanKhan]

Perfectly valid MK; but the problem is that many of the Khakis were power-centers in their own right much in excess of their rank, designation and status. Plus they have had a great fondness to stand as stars in the political firmament.
Do you think that you can ever reign in the likes of Musharrafff, Hamid Gul, Mirza Aslam Beg and the likes of them?

Those guys were not professional soldiers alone.

Musharaf being an ex president holds a different position than Hamid Gul and Aslam Beg. The state can reign in the later two.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Musharaf being an ex president holds a different position than Hamid Gul and Aslam Beg. The state can reign in the later two.

Do you really believe that the State can do that?

 

[shazlion]

OBL died years before in Tora Bora and AL QAida burried him there, US & Pak. knows it but they keep him Alive so USA could attack Iraq and keep staying in Afghanistan

raw/cia/mossad maligning ISI n Pakistan

OBL died years before in Tora Bora and AL QAida burried him there, US & Pak. knows it but they keep him Alive so USA could attack Iraq and keep staying in Afghanistan

 

[Kao Boy]

Go ahead and pull out please, be my guest but come up with something really funny

And do tell me what USG learnt from Vietnam and took good care of it in its invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, dubious invasions based on pile of lies.

To be honest. US had not reason to invade Afghanistan and neither any management.... They made base in Helmand which is a semi desert and far away from insurgency.... The only person who had vision was Richard Holbrooke rest all were in dark without plan...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Thankyou, and to top it off, no RETD. ISI chief sould give interviews without the prior consent of the agency regarding any subject matter.

that guy is a bruised party, he was kicked out after the counter coup by Musharaf supporters. so his word is as good as his feelings against the ex-chief, that said what I find funny is how the story is constructed and presented.
if its presented to a court of Law then the judge will break his table with the hammer and cancel the lawyer's licience for using "thinks, believes" as support for his arguments.


=====

According to The New York Times, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha knew where the late al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was hiding.

The newspaper alleges that a Pakistani official stated that United States had direct evidence about the ISI chief knowing Bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad at the time.

“He knew of Osama’s whereabouts, yes,” the official said.

According to an inside source of the paper, there was a special desk for the Bin Laden case at the ISI. The desk worked independently and was led by an officer who did not report to any higher authorities.

The New York Times also reported that the Pakistan government was providing a haven to the Taliban. Further, the newspaper alleged that former president Pervez Musharraf was involved in the conspiracy toremove Benazir Bhutto from power.


This news item is funny, stupid, sad and downright insulting for anyone with average intelligence who is not obsessed with Pakistan hatred. (but if there is a history of some grudge then that pretty much blinds any reasoning and this piece and the book will be godsend or Ram send depending upon the readers choice of deity)
The “Gems” are highlighted above

Opening paragraph doesn’t give away much and seems intriguing. But the opening of second paragraph starts insulting the intelligence of a common person with average intelligence.

The “allegation” is from the newspaper. So newspaper is confronting a sovereign state here. Its not speculating or suspecting but alleging as if it has superseded the US government and assumed the role of the judge and already concluded its decision without even bothering to see what the defendant has to say. (more like Taliban or Stalin modes operandi rather than from the “free world”).
Second Gem in the same paragraph is a “Pakistani official”. Is he civilian or is he military? Is he secret service or is he a political appointee with a job such as public relations , diplomat, member of senate standing committee etc? if he is an informant, a mole or inside source from all of above and his identity must be hidden then any court of law will dismiss him as a “legit” source to back an allegation without documentary evidence.

here we are talking about blaming a state allegedly harboring world’s most wanted terrorist who had insipid many terrorists to kill over 50,000 of its own civilians, soldiers and civilian officials and more than twice maimed for life. The Newspaper really has to up its game and do better than quoting an unnamed source and expecting us to take its word for it just because the allegation “rings” with the popular opinion on the mainstream media.

Still in the same paragraph, the mole/ unknown/ secret informant is yet again quoted as saying that US has “direct evidence” that our ISI chief knew about OBL’s presence. Yet again the newspaper and its esteemed reporter don’t bother to cross check with any American “official” mole or otherwise to confirm what the “Pakistani official” said. Because obviously, if the proof is so compelling then one should demand why America didn’t go ahead and put this allegation all out in the open? It had gone ahead with more drastic step of actually infiltrating into Pakistani airspace and killing Bin Laden, why suddenly so sensitive now and not showing to the entire world the proof that our ISI chief knowingly harbored OBL? As we speak the former ISI chief is currently in Bahrain which is home to American Middle eastern fleet and he is contracted by Bahrain. Like Israel and KSA, Bahrain is a staunch American Ally. (maybe some more material for next book here when Bahrain falls from American grace? Bahrain harboring the person alleged to have sheltered OBL?)

Once again to remind us all, we are talking about world’s most wanted terrorist and Pakistani state was a signatory in the war on terror that started from 9/11 tragedy. Therefore bring the charges to international court so that they can be scrutinized and the named defendants representing Pakistani state can respond to those charges and defend themselves so that they can be either punished or cleared of the smear campaign.

Any defense Lawyer from east or west worth his salt could shred this statement to bits if this is what the paper brings in an international or even in the American court “He knew of Osama’s whereabouts, yes” how very convincing…. NOT.

The fourth paragraph is not off the mark when it states that the ISI had a special desk for Bin Laden. CIA also had a special section dedicated to Bin laden it was called Bin Laden unit and Michael Scheuer was the head of Bin Laden unit. Therefore having a dedicated desk for the world’s most wanted terrorist was a standard operating procedure.

The only issue here, as the Newspaper alleges is that this desk was setup in secret to cater for the needs of OBL and was headed by an officer who was not answerable to standard chain of command. This is all based on that insider source of the newspaper what is not clear here is if he is still the same “Pakistani official” or someone in the ISI? It doesn’t matter really because the allegations are very serious. The Newspaper is therefore assuming that this officer was directly reporting to the ISI chief. (if the statement of America’s direct evidence on ISI chief’s knowledge about OBL’s whereabouts is supposed to be still valid).

The Newspaper has built up its case solely on the quotes of its insider source within Pakistani state apparatus. The allegations are very serious and for anyone proven to be involved within Pakistan they amount to treason. The Newspaper has nominated the ISI chief to be in collusion with the hiding of OBL. The world community in general and Pakistani state in particular deserves that such claim is brought up with proof so that the former ISI chief and his subordinates and anyone else involved can be brought to justice and the country can move on rather than the entire 180 million people are left to feel guilty and responsible for what the newspaper is alleging based on its “inside source”.

The raid itself was a major embracement for the country as a whole. The civilian and military apparatus, the politicians and the general public felt frustrated, angry and betrayed (by both ISI & Americans) that our intelligence agencies were oblivious (or possibly complicit) about OBL’s whereabouts second that our biggest WOT ally decided to do the raid alone despite all the help and sacrifices in the past by our military, intelligence and civilians.

But now this feeling is changing into indifference and almost dismissal of the continuous western “claims” and “allegations sans any proof that the Pakistani state components were complicit in keeping OBL in Abbotabad.

The timing of this book is also peculiar. is it to ease the pressure off the America due to recent events in Ukraine and Syria? The American humiliation at the hands of Russian intelligence by exposing the “not so diplomatic conversation” between American diplomats about American involvement in the events in Ukraine and the setbacks in Syria in failing to topple the Asad regime with the help of Al Qaeda terrorists.

Maybe this assumption is wrong and a book by a Newspaper reporter wont do much to help with recent American diplomatic and covert setbacks in the two countries but definitely gives a good popcorn time fun for sensational hungry audience. Do note that the Americans were suddenly sentimental enough not to show the body of Bin landen , toss him in the sea and not share any intelligence proving Pakistani complicity but they did give access to movie makers on Bin Laden to the Seal team 6 for the pointers to make a good block buster.

This book despite all the amateur and ambitious claims will do good on the bookshelf and earn good money for the publisher and the author. But it only finds a niche in fact/ fiction section of the books.

Looking at the last paragraph it seems that the report is written by two people who are mentally and physically detached and in different mindset and timeline to each other.

The gem in this paragraph is “Taliban heaven”. The entire Tribal area in general and both Waziristans in particular have been the constant target of American drones and Pakistani forces for the past ten years. Calling them a heaven is stretching the imagination to the nth degree here. Pakistan has captured and killed the most number of Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders and operatives alone outside Afghanistan. Pakistanis were understandably not that keen on Afghan Taliban as much as they were on the TTP Just like both the American and Afghan regime didn’t go after the Pakistani Taliban as wholehearted and rigorously (we later found out it was on the contrary that Afghan regime was actually harbouring the TTP leadership). That said we still captured and handed over Afghan leadership like Mullah Bradar and KSM. Whereas our pleas to handover the BLA and TTP leadership fell on deaf ears. Pakistan is anything but a safe heaven for the Afghan Taliban now that Americans are busy talking to the Afghan Taliban in Doha statements like these have long gone past their sell by value.


the last lines of the report are down right tragic (just shows how far removed from reality one can be)
Musharaf was himself "in power" before and after 9/11. Benazir was contesting elections and just came back from exile. Musharraf was actually banking on the support of Benazir to fight the war on terror because she had openly supported the war against Al Qaeda and taliban, her assassination was the biggest loss to Musharaf because he not only had to give up his presidency but also go in exile. if newspaper is blaming him in conspiracy to have her removed back in the late 90s then its is stretching its imagination to new levels.

 

[shazlion]

that guy is a bruised party, he was kicked out after the counter coup by Musharaf supporters. so his word is as good as his feelings against the ex-chief, that said what I find funny is how the story is constructed and presented.
if its presented to a court of Law then the judge will break his table with the hammer and cancel the lawyer's licience for using "thinks, believes" as support for his arguments.


=====

According to The New York Times, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha knew where the late al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was hiding.

The newspaper alleges that a Pakistani official stated that United States had direct evidence about the ISI chief knowing Bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad at the time.

“He knew of Osama’s whereabouts, yes,” the official said.

According to an inside source of the paper, there was a special desk for the Bin Laden case at the ISI. The desk worked independently and was led by an officer who did not report to any higher authorities.

The New York Times also reported that the Pakistan government was providing a haven to the Taliban. Further, the newspaper alleged that former president Pervez Musharraf was involved in the conspiracy toremove Benazir Bhutto from power.


This news item is funny, stupid, sad and downright insulting for anyone with average intelligence who is not obsessed with Pakistan hatred. (but if there is a history of some grudge then that pretty much blinds any reasoning and this piece and the book will be godsend or Ram send depending upon the readers choice of deity)
The “Gems” are highlighted above

Opening paragraph doesn’t give away much and seems intriguing. But the opening of second paragraph starts insulting the intelligence of a common person with average intelligence.

The “allegation” is from the newspaper. So newspaper is confronting a sovereign state here. Its not speculating or suspecting but alleging as if it has superseded the US government and assumed the role of the judge and already concluded its decision without even bothering to see what the defendant has to say. (more like Taliban or Stalin modes operandi rather than from the “free world”).
Second Gem in the same paragraph is a “Pakistani official”. Is he civilian or is he military? Is he secret service or is he a political appointee with a job such as public relations , diplomat, member of senate standing committee etc? if he is an informant, a mole or inside source from all of above and his identity must be hidden then any court of law will dismiss him as a “legit” source to back an allegation without documentary evidence.

here we are talking about blaming a state allegedly harboring world’s most wanted terrorist who had insipid many terrorists to kill over 50,000 of its own civilians, soldiers and civilian officials and more than twice maimed for life. The Newspaper really has to up its game and do better than quoting an unnamed source and expecting us to take its word for it just because the allegation “rings” with the popular opinion on the mainstream media.

Still in the same paragraph, the mole/ unknown/ secret informant is yet again quoted as saying that US has “direct evidence” that our ISI chief knew about OBL’s presence. Yet again the newspaper and its esteemed reporter don’t bother to cross check with any American “official” mole or otherwise to confirm what the “Pakistani official” said. Because obviously, if the proof is so compelling then one should demand why America didn’t go ahead and put this allegation all out in the open? It had gone ahead with more drastic step of actually infiltrating into Pakistani airspace and killing Bin Laden, why suddenly so sensitive now and not showing to the entire world the proof that our ISI chief knowingly harbored OBL? As we speak the former ISI chief is currently in Bahrain which is home to American Middle eastern fleet and he is contracted by Bahrain. Like Israel and KSA, Bahrain is a staunch American Ally. (maybe some more material for next book here when Bahrain falls from American grace? Bahrain harboring the person alleged to have sheltered OBL?)

Once again to remind us all, we are talking about world’s most wanted terrorist and Pakistani state was a signatory in the war on terror that started from 9/11 tragedy. Therefore bring the charges to international court so that they can be scrutinized and the named defendants representing Pakistani state can respond to those charges and defend themselves so that they can be either punished or cleared of the smear campaign.

Any defense Lawyer from east or west worth his salt could shred this statement to bits if this is what the paper brings in an international or even in the American court “He knew of Osama’s whereabouts, yes” how very convincing…. NOT.

The fourth paragraph is not off the mark when it states that the ISI had a special desk for Bin Laden. CIA also had a special section dedicated to Bin laden it was called Bin Laden unit and Michael Scheuer was the head of Bin Laden unit. Therefore having a dedicated desk for the world’s most wanted terrorist was a standard operating procedure.

The only issue here, as the Newspaper alleges is that this desk was setup in secret to cater for the needs of OBL and was headed by an officer who was not answerable to standard chain of command. This is all based on that insider source of the newspaper what is not clear here is if he is still the same “Pakistani official” or someone in the ISI? It doesn’t matter really because the allegations are very serious. The Newspaper is therefore assuming that this officer was directly reporting to the ISI chief. (if the statement of America’s direct evidence on ISI chief’s knowledge about OBL’s whereabouts is supposed to be still valid).

The Newspaper has built up its case solely on the quotes of its insider source within Pakistani state apparatus. The allegations are very serious and for anyone proven to be involved within Pakistan they amount to treason. The Newspaper has nominated the ISI chief to be in collusion with the hiding of OBL. The world community in general and Pakistani state in particular deserves that such claim is brought up with proof so that the former ISI chief and his subordinates and anyone else involved can be brought to justice and the country can move on rather than the entire 180 million people are left to feel guilty and responsible for what the newspaper is alleging based on its “inside source”.

The raid itself was a major embracement for the country as a whole. The civilian and military apparatus, the politicians and the general public felt frustrated, angry and betrayed (by both ISI & Americans) that our intelligence agencies were oblivious (or possibly complicit) about OBL’s whereabouts second that our biggest WOT ally decided to do the raid alone despite all the help and sacrifices in the past by our military, intelligence and civilians.

But now this feeling is changing into indifference and almost dismissal of the continuous western “claims” and “allegations sans any proof that the Pakistani state components were complicit in keeping OBL in Abbotabad.

The timing of this book is also peculiar. is it to ease the pressure off the America due to recent events in Ukraine and Syria? The American humiliation at the hands of Russian intelligence by exposing the “not so diplomatic conversation” between American diplomats about American involvement in the events in Ukraine and the setbacks in Syria in failing to topple the Asad regime with the help of Al Qaeda terrorists.

Maybe this assumption is wrong and a book by a Newspaper reporter wont do much to help with recent American diplomatic and covert setbacks in the two countries but definitely gives a good popcorn time fun for sensational hungry audience. Do note that the Americans were suddenly sentimental enough not to show the body of Bin landen , toss him in the sea and not share any intelligence proving Pakistani complicity but they did give access to movie makers on Bin Laden to the Seal team 6 for the pointers to make a good block buster.

This book despite all the amateur and ambitious claims will do good on the bookshelf and earn good money for the publisher and the author. But it only finds a niche in fact/ fiction section of the books.

Looking at the last paragraph it seems that the report is written by two people who are mentally and physically detached and in different mindset and timeline to each other.

The gem in this paragraph is “Taliban heaven”. The entire Tribal area in general and both Waziristans in particular have been the constant target of American drones and Pakistani forces for the past ten years. Calling them a heaven is stretching the imagination to the nth degree here. Pakistan has captured and killed the most number of Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders and operatives alone outside Afghanistan. Pakistanis were understandably not that keen on Afghan Taliban as much as they were on the TTP Just like both the American and Afghan regime didn’t go after the Pakistani Taliban as wholehearted and rigorously (we later found out it was on the contrary that Afghan regime was actually harbouring the TTP leadership). That said we still captured and handed over Afghan leadership like Mullah Bradar and KSM. Whereas our pleas to handover the BLA and TTP leadership fell on deaf ears. Pakistan is anything but a safe heaven for the Afghan Taliban now that Americans are busy talking to the Afghan Taliban in Doha statements like these have long gone past their sell by value.


the last lines of the report are down right tragic (just shows how far removed from reality one can be)
Musharaf was himself "in power" before and after 9/11. Benazir was contesting elections and just came back from exile. Musharraf was actually banking on the support of Benazir to fight the war on terror because she had openly supported the war against Al Qaeda and taliban, her assassination was the biggest loss to Musharaf because he not only had to give up his presidency but also go in exile. if newspaper is blaming him in conspiracy to have her removed back in the late 90s then its is stretching its imagination to new levels.

OBL died years before in Tora Bora and AL QAida burried him there, US & Pak. knows it but they keep him Alive so USA could attack Iraq and keep staying in Afghanistan

Afghanistan

 

[Providence]

Ofc ISI knew Osama's whereabouts but didn't know about the CIA's plans

 

[Providence]

Well, Pak. is the Dog of USA and UK, the Dog do what his Master tell him to do
Dog bites and even kill him and her, if the Master ever tries to Fukk with the Dog!
At the time of Afghanistan War and before that Pak. is doing what USA and UK told him to do but after USA and UK try to Fukk Pak. then Pak started to start bite them back and even Pak. the big Dog he is has the ability to Kill USA and UK too.....!
Peace

I didn't get any head or tail of your argument. Seriously !

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, Pak. is the Dog of USA and UK, the Dog do what his Master tell him to do
Dog bites and even kill him and her, if the Master ever tries to Fukk with the Dog!
At the time of Afghanistan War and before that Pak. is doing what USA and UK told him to do but after USA and UK try to Fukk Pak. then Pak started to start bite them back and even Pak. the big Dog he is has the ability to Kill USA and UK too.....!
Peace

Son,

You have a canadian flag, but you have your head burried deep in sand. A dog is the most cherished animal in usa and this dog dont bite.

Please don, t ruin the standard of this board. If you cannot keep up with the standard, plz dont post

Do you really believe that the State can do that?

Absolutely.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Absolutely.

I wish you the best of luck then.

 

[Shamain]

Well its surprising this stupid news piece is under discussion.
The interview itself sounded pretty weak and shaky as in the durrani guy had repeated the words , 'may' or 'may not be',so many times regarding obl's presence , that it would rob his account off any shred of credibility.

Then most importantly what almost busted his lies were, he had said, that Pak army or isi perhaps kept him in abbottabad to get something in exchange for him from usa etc.
So if Pakistan army was sheltering this guy and specifically for attaining some startegic advantage against usa then they would be goofs of comic world who would brazenly hide him in a populous area where people could easily identify it.
Not to forget this newsjunk came out in feb or jan when also our zarb e azb was gaining popularity for its success, so at that time there were some constant efforts of publishing news to effect Pak army's image and fan controversies. Things were nicely timed by west.
media propaganda....but noone buys me.....
Sighs.