Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

[Myth_buster_1]

Nuclear sub is waist of investment for pakistan at the moment! the amount of money we are going to spend on just nuclear reactor we can probably afford world class submarine.
IMO PN will be better off with more type-214 then nuclear powered subs of its own.

 

[samiullahawan]

Haven't u heard chief of naval staff that we will go for nuke sub......though i can't tell my source but its confirm nd as i said before u will soon have good news of nuke sub of Pakistan!!!!

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever...

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

I have confirmed information that its almost completed!!!

Your source is???????? How can you claim that the news is "confirmed info."? You should nt be reluctant to disclose the source esp. if it only a year away.....

 

[samiullahawan]

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever.....

 

[xebex]

Does Pakistan will made nuclear submarine in 1 year?

I have confirmed information that its almost completed!!!

Anyone with more information or wants to comment!!!

Haven't u heard chief of naval staff that we will go for nuke sub......though i can't tell my source but its confirm nd as i said before u will soon have good news of nuke sub of Pakistan!!!!

dude u cant just simply claim that u have confirmed information without providing us any source.......u simply cant.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why Pakistan people are not thinking of improving economy rather than thinking about military? no offense.


i don't think India will attack Pakistan, because India want to improve it's economy to catch up with china.

So Pakistan should also try to catch up with India in economic development, than military.

This is not the economy section, and this is not the first time you have brought in issues irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You will be banned next time.

Threads merged, since there was no source given for the post by samiullahawan, and it falls in the category of the existing thread.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever.....

Meri jaan.................. the thing is that "nothing is impossible. I strongly believe that.
I do know that Pakistan knew from the very beginning( several , several yrs ago) that IN was working on a nuclear sub.
But what does nt add up is that do we have any subs that can be modified to accommodate a reactor & such? Arent nuke subs very large & such? I am not an expert when it comes to ships etc so I am just wondering if we are actually able to pull it off. off course, China would help in such an undertaking.

If you have a solid source , pls share it or atleast pm that info to Pakistani ember if you wish not to indulge such info on a forum so we can vouch based on the source.


---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 PM ----------

This is not the economy section, and this is not the first time you have brought in issues irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You will be banned next time.

Threads merged, since there was no source given for the post by samiullahawan, and it falls in the category of the existing thread.

Finally someone stick it to daisyguy.....................

 

[Adios Amigo]

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever.....

come on guys, y dont u believe him, he is on the verge of leaving this forum plz dont do that, i would like to stand with u even if there is no link provided atleast i will have fealgood effect, plus it will be good news for us in a surperising manner

 

[ahf_nuke1]

I am not here to disappoint anyone ...but nuclear submarine is a messy business in terms of finances and technology... even if we get one somehow ...do we have enough money to maintain it ?? It needs to be refueled with 99% enriched uranium every year or two plus the other maintenance cost is also high for the reactor ...we enrich the fuel for our missiles and we do it at pretty steady level but its is kinda slow ...we will have to increase our capacity before even thinking about it other wise it will be just another ship stationed on the harbor. Russia have some of the best nuke subs ....but everyone know what happened to many of those subs due to finances ...
Navy will have to train personnel to just run this reactor under water and other things like that which our navy does not have the capability to do right now ...designing that kinda reactors is also not very easy job we haven't even designed our own civilian reactors yet ....On other hand India have designed their own reactors plus I'm pretty sure they got foreign help for this nuke sub reactor ...they were working on it for long time .....
It will be waste of our country's resources for now to go for Nuke ballistic sub...we dont need it ...We should spend more money to get more Cruise missiles and other Ballistic missiles for defenses and deploy them on our Destroyers and Frigrates ....
Other best option is to get Attack Nuclear Sub from China ....No one else will be willing to give us that ....and start developing our own fleet of under water missiles or torpedoes which can detect and destroy this kinda threat from safe distances through air ....

 

[XYON]

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever.....

Humay MAKHI PARR MAKHI NAHIN MARNI CHAHIYAY!

I think that the Arihant is designed by the Indians to have blue-water ability and to counter the increasing Chinese domination on the Indian Ocean (Gwadar, Myanmar etc). We do not necessarily need a nuke-powered sub to counter the Arihant. We just need a stronger response base, which means that if the Indians use the sub to come close to our water-line or to launch nukes at our cities we go super-ballistic with firing higher kiloton (Hydrogen Bomb?) and longer range MIRV missiles at Indian cities. In defense strategy; its not necessarily an eye for an eye all the time. You need out-of-the-box solutions to counter Goliath threats!

 

[lindsyebanks]

There has been talk over the years on Pakistan looking at sea based nuclear assets, but they were then discounted by the very same sources. As early as 2001, Adm Afzal Tahir (who at the time was R Adm and Deputy Chief of Naval Staff Operations) said that Pakistan may equip its submarine flotilla with nuclear weapons. This was naturally picked up around the world and resulted in the usual doomsday scenario being projected against Pakistan. Not much has been heard since and just as well. If Pakistan is to deploy/develop nuclear weapons, then there are no advantages gained by pre-announcing it. An example is Babur/Raad cruise missiles, which pretty much caught a lot of observers by surprise as the assumption had been drawn that this technology was beyond Pakistans ability.

If an SSN construction program is underway and if we momentarily put aside the question of cost, it is not unreasonable to assume that such a mammoth project is not beyond Pakistan's ability from a development standpoint. The current French Rubis SSN's shared some key components with the older Agosta 70, including using the latters hull as a baseline to some degree. Pakistan too may well feel emboldened (justifiably) that its experience assembling/part constructing (*as explained further below) Agosta 90B's has given her new found confidence to look at options of using a minitiarised reactor much as France did with the Rubis SSN's. It can safely be assumed that assistance will have been sought from other nations notably China, but there is no assurance that this would have been forth coming - at least not likely to be acknowledged publicly.

All this however does not take into account the pro's and con's of having an SSN or SSK fleet. For Pakistan (or any other country for that matter) the advantages of the former would have to outweight those of the latter greatly to justify build effort and funds required for undertaking an SSN build program. As an example, the french Rubis class SSN has an endurance of 45 days at sea. However its now defunct (owing to cancellation) nemesis the Turquoise class SSK which was based on the Rubis SSN had an endurance of 60 days and this was without any AIP. Fitment of an AIP to the Turquoise would have increased the endurance of the SSK to almost 90 days and that is a very very very (yes I said it 3 times) respectable figure.

In March 1997, PN undertook a series of ASW exercises with the French navy's SSN – Amethyste in the Arabian Sea. PNS Khaiber was successful in locating the Amethyste in 7 out of the 8 scenarios exercised. Just because INS Arihant and her future sister ships have the ability to lurk outside of Karachi for months doesn’t mean they can’t be found and subsequently attacked. Anyone versed in the basics of ASW knows that current day SSK’s are still quieter than SSN’s. Neither do the SSN’s offer any advantage in littoral waters.

Finally it would be naive to assume Pakistan Navy did not conduct feasibility studies to ascertain their ability to have an SSN fleet or nuclear armed SSK's for that matter. Global Politics and not just funds would dictate Pakistan’s decision to ply forward with any SSN development plans.

* as noted above, the term "assembly/part constructed" is used as it correctly describes the SSK building process vis-a-vis Pakistan whereby all the sub-assembly components were sourced and cannot be duplicated in Pakistan, e.g. fire control system, propulsion, AIP etc

Please see the link and corresponding below report.
Urdu
Urdu Daily: Pakistan Building Nuclear Submarine
An Urdu-language Pakistani daily reveals that Pakistan has speeded up the building up of its nuclear submarine after India launched its nuclear submarine recently.
According to a report in the Urdu-language newspaper Roznama Nawa-i-Waqt, "about this [Pakistani] project, utmost secrecy is being maintained."
The report added: "Nawa-i-Waqt has learned that Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission and the Pakistan Navy are jointly working on this project rapidly. However, everyone [involved in it] has adopted total silence."
Source: Roznama Nawa-i-Waqt, Pakistan, August 3, 2009


Regards,

Lindsy

 

[wild peace]

Why Pakistan people are not thinking of improving economy rather than thinking about military? no offense.


i don't think India will attack Pakistan, because India want to improve it's economy to catch up with china.

So Pakistan should also try to catch up with India in economic development, than military.

Hahahahaa econnomy:. theives stole it if you do not have the power.

 

[SBD-3]

Haven't u heard chief of naval staff that we will go for nuke sub......though i can't tell my source but its confirm nd as i said before u will soon have good news of nuke sub of Pakistan!!!!

Pakistan is working on nuclear submarines since 1993......and soon u people will came to know about our nuke sub....besides if india remains the only nuke sub holder in this region then it will be soon a problem for Pakistan...believe it or not soon Pakistan will be nuke sub holder......u can bet on this if Pakistan does not announce about its nuke sub within 1 year and 8 months then i'll leave this forum for ever...

lols well i don't doubt your sincerity but producing a miniature reactor is a very costly thing and one needs a lot of help just like India got from Russia and There is NO!need for us to go for a nuke sub we should enhance our subs to fire SL Babur and enhance their carriage capacity that all we already have excellent platform and we will Inshallah get U-214 if we can improve its design then it can be a hell of goodness for PN no nukes required IMHO

 

[wild peace]

Choosing French Submarine over German? : Rational decision or risking Pakistani defence ?
Published by editor Pakistan Aug 3, 2009


A German team is due in few days probably on August 5th according to sources to look into possibility of signing the accord for provision of U-214 submarines to Pakistan Navy.

However reports appearing in the media suggest that the deal may hit snags due to change of mind in the current Pakistani government over purchase of German submarines.

In 2008 Pakistan Navy under chief of naval staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir made efforts for including German 214 Class submarines in its fleet and owing to Navy’s persistent efforts, the government had approved plans for acquisition of these submarines to be built at Karachi Shipyard under transfer of technology programme.

The details were later worked out between the two countries when a Pakistan Navy delegation visited Germany in April.

However recently quoting Pakistani government sources, the Financial Times Deutschland says President Asif Zardari may overrule his military’s preference for the German subs to take up a “better offer” from France.

But what better submarines France can offer to Pakistan? That is a question to ponder because France has no better submarines to offer Pakistan at the moment, whereas French are indeed not ready to offer us nuclear submarine.

What France has in store?

There are three options 1. Scorpion, 2. Marlin and 3. Barracuda submarines. But again the scorpions are not superior to U 214, neither these will be having any benefit for Pakistan because French company DCN is already going to provide Scorpion to Indian Navy ahead of Pakistan.

U-214 is way better than French design given to India. Marlin is just on drawing board and will take forever to go to prototype stage and then test and evaluation and finally induction into Pakistan Navy meanwhile India will have all its Scorpion in sea. DCN (Direction des Constructions Navales), France will not be able to fulfill Pakistani order ahead of Indians.

Now the only option for Pakistan will be to ask for Barracuda submarine, but it is unlikely that France will sell us nuclear submarine. Barracuda is a nuclear powered submarine and France does not currently allow the sale of nuclear-propelled submarines.

Despite having French Agosta B submarines, the Pakistani Navy opted for purchasing German Torpedoes for fitting to Agosta B due to the superior German technology.

Pakistan Navy needs German submarines because the German U-214 subs are far better than the French Scorpion.

Following is the comparison between French subs and German U 214.

Specifications of U-214

Crew

27 (including five officers)
Weapon Systems:

Torpedoes

Six 533mm tubes, 24 STN Atlas Elektronik DM2A4 torpedoes

Combat Data Syetem

Basic Command and Weapons Control System (BCWCS)

Countermeasures:

ESM

EADS

FL1800U

Decoys

TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system

Radar

Kelvin hughes type 1007 I-band navigation radar

Sonar

STN Atlas Elektronik DBQS-40 sonar suite and STN Atlas Elektronik MOA 3070 mine detection sonar

Periscopes

Zeiss Optronic SERO 14 search and SERO 15 attack

Propulsion

Diesel-electric, MTU 16V-396 diesel engine, 3.12MW, HDW / Siemens AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) system, 300kW
U214 Dimensions:

Length

64m

Height

13m

Surface Displacement

1,700m³

Presure Hull Diameter

6.3m

Buoyancy Reserve 10%
U214 Performance:

Submerged Patrol Speed of Advance

6kt

Range

12,000nm

Mission Endurance

12 weeks

Constantly Submerged

Three weeks without snorkelling

Mission Sprint Speed

15kt to 20kt

Maximum Dive Depth

400m+

Scorpion (Scorpène) Subs (French One) Specifications

Key Data:

Crew

32
Dimensions:

Overall Length

63.5m

Draught

5.4m

Submerged Displacement

1,590t

Surface Displacement

1,450t

Pressure Hull Weldable and High-Tensile Steel

80HLES, more than 700Mpa
Performance:

Maximum Operating Depth

350m

Submerged Speed

Over 20 kt

Range (at 8kt)

6,400nm

Endurance

50 days
Weapon Systems:

Torpedoes / Missiles

Six 21in torpedo tubes for 18 torpedoes / missiles

Comparison
Specs Scorpion U-214 Marlin
Crew 32 27
Maximum Operating Depth


350 meters More than 400 meters
Range 6400 nm 12000 nm
Endurance 50 Days 84 Days


The comparison clearly indicates the superiority of German U-214 submarine.

If the current government goes for inferior quality French submarines then it will indeed give weight to suspicion of many Pakistanis who see bribes as main factor behind any irrational decisions viz viz defence deals.

Already the Pakistani senators have demanded in an incamera briefing from Pakistani Naval chief in the Senate.

Whereas some eyebrows have also been raised over the fact that foreign secretary Salman Bashir in the current government of Zardari is the brother of Naval Chief, Noman Bashir and there are also some reports that PIA chairman is going to be named Pakistani envoy to France. Some political pundits see such an appointment an attempt to muster a deal for French submarines.
On the other hand submarine acquisition project (SMAP) a group composed of Naval officers who have recommended U-214 submarines over other options after extensive study has been disbanded and the officers have been posted out at different stations.

Though earlier the Germans have delayed the deal due to political situation of Pakistan but can kickoff cutting of hull for first submarine immediately after signing the deal.

In such a situation going for something which does not fulfill the requirement of Pakistan Navy would be tantamount to putting the national defence at risk.

There is no reason not to go for German submarines specially when Berlin even granted federal export credit guarantees worth nearly $1.4 billion for the purchase of the same.

are we again wasting our money on french subs?. Is their any one who kill these bas.....
GOD HELP PAKISTAN

 

[Guest]

Correct me if I’m wrong

1) Diesel subs can’t deliver nuke missiles, coz they are too small to lunch it.
2) The chances of N-subs to be sunk by D-subs are extremely slim, and ambush is the only chance for D-subs. Coz A. the N-subs can choose to engaged or not; B. the N-subs can lunch their heavy-torpedoes first and then disengaged;