Pakistan pivots to center as US and China vie for regional supremacy

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Incorrect. Pakistan can buy as many F-16s as it can afford to pay for, without a doubt.

Show me when Pakistan last bought an F-16. Oh yeah. That was way back in 2010 and that was only 12 F-16C and 6 F-16D token number.

 

[VCheng]

Show me when Pakistan last bought an F-16. Oh yeah. That was way back in 2010 and that was only 12 F-16C and 6 F-16D token number.

All such deals depend on the mutual interests of the nations involved. What exactly is the issue here?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

All such deals depend on the mutual interests of the nations involved. What exactly is the issue here?

The issue is Pakistan ain't buying more F-16. J-10C all the way baby!

 

[VCheng]

The issue is Pakistan ain't buying more F-16. J-10C all the way baby!

Excellent choice! Pakistan as a sovereign nation must make the choices that serve its national interests the best. Go ahead!

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Excellent choice! Pakistan as a sovereign nation must make the choices that serve its national interests the best. Go ahead!

On top of that, Americans are racist to Pakistan. America won't ever sell AESA plane to Pakistan. China does with JF-17 Block 3.

 

[VCheng]

On top of that, Americans are racist to Pakistan. America won't ever sell AESA plane to Pakistan. China does with JF-17 Block 3.

On top of that, more gooder for China! It can only be good for Pakistan.

 

[IceCold]

There is no ban on Pakistan on buying F-16s. That is a fact. Equally clearly, what Pakistan did in the past was a direct consequence of its actions, so blaming the US for that episode is incorrect. Pakistan made a decision that it thought served its national interests the best despite knowing clearly what would happen as a result. USA did the same. And that is how "geostrategery" works.

Wrong! Because all US sales need congress approvals, even if F16s are on sale to pakistan, the sale will get squashed in congress. Therefore we will simply be unable to get them which again makes no difference whether we have funds to buy something or not.
As for the justifications, please save it. My point was only in relation to your early post where you suggested that its all about money and if Pakistan has it, US military hardware will be available which is not the case. Period!
Now we can debate on technicalities but the end result will always be the same, no amount of funds will change that.

 

[Gilljutt]

Pakistan is not very good at picking friends.

 

[Goritoes]

I have full faith and confidence that like every other time in the history, Pakistan's political and military leadership will make the most bhangaar decision for the nation, and later fight over whom to be blamed.

@VCheng you mention in your post that F-16 ban on Pakistan was because of something US requested, well since when US started Requesting Smaller countries ? second, US put sanctions after Pakistan's nuclear test which was pivot for Pakistan because Indians got them, and after experiencing cold shoulders from America in both 65 and 71, does Pakistan have any option left ? would anyone in their sane mind would trust US, US offer financial and military aid in response of stopping the test but who can guarantee that those funds and Military hardware would ever land in Pakistan? US Spies on everyone, US supports dictators, US literally staged coup's, US were doing some nasty things with its allies including Pakistan even when Pakistan was ally and member of CETO, so technically you can not just simply say that US military hardware is open for Pakistan if they pay, cause even if US president approve something, Congress can block it with of course by strong lobbies of Israel and Indian, but then you would say that US is a democracy so Congress decides, but in the end it is Pakistan that always lose and will keep losing because of its leadership both Political and Military they think if this or that happen then US will be more friendly to us, but they keep hoping to get the right results when their entire process to get desired results is fundamentally wrong.

 

[The Maverick]

you can't blame usa for your failed relations with them.
you some how had obl in your country... you seemed to be at odds with western values,and culture..
usa eyes India like the rest of the world as it's business opportunity.
India is a big market . big economy big opportunity for Arabs the west usa Russia Japan.
They dominate this part of the world cultural their soft power history and diplomacy is way superior to yours..
your military have made bad decisions
China will never beat the western world they are,left with the poor isolated nations
north Korea Iran African states.
and I don't see Pakistanis rushing to China to live and prosper.
you beat their drum because you have no option.
deep down you want usa and f16 and drones from them but they eye India only
and this is not good for you people long term.
you need to change your outlook long term and play smarter to gain western world support and it starts with a pretend olive branch to India
then return to normal.ties with Saudi and uae.
reach out to Israel then rewin trust of usa
it may take a decade but it's needed
you risk usa turning India to a super power in a decade if you just look at China who are drowning you In debt and taking over your land ie gilgat baltistan is now part of China you just handed it to them.

 

[IblinI]

you can't blame usa for your failed relations with them.
you some how had obl in your country... you seemed to be at odds with western values,and culture..
usa eyes India like the rest of the world as it's business opportunity.
India is a big market . big economy big opportunity for Arabs the west usa Russia Japan.
They dominate this part of the world cultural their soft power history and diplomacy is way superior to yours..
your military have made bad decisions
China will never beat the western world they are,left with the poor isolated nations
north Korea Iran African states.
and I don't see Pakistanis rushing to China to live and prosper.
you beat their drum because you have no option.
deep down you want usa and f16 and drones from them but they eye India only
and this is not good for you people long term.
you need to change your outlook long term and play smarter to gain western world support and it starts with a pretend olive branch to India
then return to normal.ties with Saudi and uae.
reach out to Israel then rewin trust of usa
it may take a decade but it's needed
you risk usa turning India to a super power in a decade if you just look at China who are drowning you In debt and taking over your land ie gilgat baltistan is now part of China you just handed it to them.

chest thumping but at the same time full of western slave mentality, what a combination.

you risk usa turning India to a super power in a decade

I feel pity on you lot, fantasizing on other instead of trusting your own people's hard work.

 

[The Maverick]

chest thumping but at the same time full of western slave mentality, what a combination.

I feel pity on you lot, fantasizing on other instead of trusting your own people's hard work.

we trust our hard work enough to have independent foreign policy ie s400 from Russia and stick two fingers to use sanctions threat
usa wants us in quad they will need to respect our needs including s400
in turn we will join quad but on our terms
you want to trade fine you come invest in India we trade we work hard
period this is modern India led by modi
no begging bowl.

 

[Bouncer]

TLDR; another cold war. Another proxy war. Another generation of generals and blessed civies about to get rich and maybe set up one or two coca cola bottling plants and another generation of mango people about to get fucked. New bogeymen will be created and new saints will emerge who's clips will circulate on whatsapp with Quranic ayats in background. 2050 will be interesting if mango people survive by then.

 

[maithil]

One could notice some cooling down after 5 heady years of Nawaz Sharif. If article correctly quotes general, then some concern in Beijing is understandable. Islamabad is not used to 4% interest on budgetary support money from its friends.

 

[VCheng]

Wrong! Because all US sales need congress approvals, even if F16s are on sale to pakistan, the sale will get squashed in congress. Therefore we will simply be unable to get them which again makes no difference whether we have funds to buy something or not.
As for the justifications, please save it. My point was only in relation to your early post where you suggested that its all about money and if Pakistan has it, US military hardware will be available which is not the case. Period!
Now we can debate on technicalities but the end result will always be the same, no amount of funds will change that.

Please keep in mind that there is a process for arms sales, which applies to all countries. If others can work their way through this well-known process, so can Pakistan. There is nothing that stops Pakistan from taking advantage of the same system.

I have full faith and confidence that like every other time in the history, Pakistan's political and military leadership will make the most bhangaar decision for the nation, and later fight over whom to be blamed.

@VCheng you mention in your post that F-16 ban on Pakistan was because of something US requested, well since when US started Requesting Smaller countries ? second, US put sanctions after Pakistan's nuclear test which was pivot for Pakistan because Indians got them, and after experiencing cold shoulders from America in both 65 and 71, does Pakistan have any option left ? would anyone in their sane mind would trust US, US offer financial and military aid in response of stopping the test but who can guarantee that those funds and Military hardware would ever land in Pakistan? US Spies on everyone, US supports dictators, US literally staged coup's, US were doing some nasty things with its allies including Pakistan even when Pakistan was ally and member of CETO, so technically you can not just simply say that US military hardware is open for Pakistan if they pay, cause even if US president approve something, Congress can block it with of course by strong lobbies of Israel and Indian, but then you would say that US is a democracy so Congress decides, but in the end it is Pakistan that always lose and will keep losing because of its leadership both Political and Military they think if this or that happen then US will be more friendly to us, but they keep hoping to get the right results when their entire process to get desired results is fundamentally wrong.

USA can only convey its opinions in diplomatic terms. It did request Pakistan multiple times not to carry out its nuclear tests. However, Pakistan, as a sovereign nation, decided that its national interests were served better by ignoring USA's request. If Pakistan has no sane minds that would trust USA, do you think there would be any on the US side that would trust Pakistan after those (and later) events? After all international geopolitics is always a two-way street. and, as I said above, there is a process for arms sales, which applies to all countries. If others can work their way through this well-known process, so can Pakistan. There is nothing that stops Pakistan from taking advantage of the same system.

And it also is important to keep in mind that whatever USA does is not unique to it. All major powers, and indeed even minor powers, try to do everything that you attribute to USA. It is just that some do it better than others.