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Pakistan not to accept extention in US. strikes

@ S-2

Your assessment to the current situation might be factual yet presented in a misleading way. And it only serves the interests of the savior US by making her real transgressions seem tame in comparison. Don’t portray Afghanistan as paranoid fringe-dwelling underclass because they aren’t. We as a nation accepts our failures but its a detour, not a dead-end street.
 
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"Hillary said: "We Funded Taliban."

"The people we are fighting here today we funded twenty years ago."

That's the actual quote and only partially true. It is a fact that some like Hekmatyar, Haqqani, and (possibly) Omar may have received assistance from America. So did, however, numerous mujahideen forces that we once supported with whom we are not today fighting.

So too Pakistan. Pakistan rendered some support to groups who today Pakistan would call their enemy. Certainly Pakistan didn't view Ahmed Massoud as a friend but rendered grudging assistance nonetheless. Pakistan, of course, was far more generous with dispensation to pashtu affiliated groups.

Ms. Clinton conflated the taliban with the mujahideen in her comments. It is the mistake of an amateur. Nobody conversant in the subject would do so in light of the significant contributions made by non-pashtu majahideen during the Afghan-Soviet war. Very few of those non-pashtu mujahideen seem opposed to the U.N. mandate for Afghanistan.
 
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Gin Ka Pakistan s2 resides on another forum as well a sweet friend to indians on that forum..here look below:
>>The disease is just to the east. What would it take to TREAT the disease? Can the Pakistani military, most of all it's nuclear weapons, be neutralized or destroyed without them launching a nuclear reprisal on India?Would we have to use our own strategic assets to do so or can it be done conventionally?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/12923-pak-us-relationship-17.html#post559029

No one is planning to attack and take away nuclear weapons of Pakistan. This propaganda is spread purely to align people against USA and the likes.
 
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My friend, I hope to have your word on this. How is it meaningful that US be allowed to bomb targets in some areas and not in others? If its just going to help your cause of liquidating high value targets, threat to pakistan as well. What logically follows is that 1)Either there is something that pakistan doesent want US to eliminate or 2) Bombing FATA (pashtuns) is ok while bombing Punjabis or baloch is strict no no. This is no useless rant. Appreciate your reply

Indian PM rejected US demand of sending troops to afghanistan in 2001 citing disapproval of parliament. Why cant pakistan do so? I know pakistans economic dependence on US. But it is also the other way round, the geopolitical dependence of US on pak.

International relations are not deviced at the cost of popular public sentiments. There has certainly been negligence on the part of GOP to take on board everyone and not deal in private about this drone stuff.


You may never know.

P.S. that argument of UN security council consisting of pak friendly China and US long back, was just a teaser.:D

First of all if you have missed the news of past, US is interested in extending it to Quetta area where they think some phantom Quetta Shura exists, which in reality isn't there, but as US wishes to make Pakistan into a civil war zone, so they adamant on carrying out such act to achieve their objective, which Pakistan has said a big NO to it, as its not like the tribal area, its a populated area with considerable civilian casualties and Pakistan won't allow it due to some strategic issues. So its not about a war on Pushtun or waging it on Punjabi or Balochi, so don't try to give it another color. As FATA and Balochistan border Afghanistan, so they become the so called sanctuaries.

And as for FATA drone strikes, its a give and take policy, behind the scene off course, publicly its something else as our oligarchs have to safe their arses other then Pakistan's.

And when you have a Bully on the lose, then it becomes very hard to stop that bully especially when another Bully sits at the eastern fronts waiting for any opportunity coming its way.

So the deal is now they take out their targets, we take our targets through them, but off course BM was by mistake with some cleverness shown by ISI :)
 
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"Don’t portray Afghanistan as paranoid fringe-dwelling underclass because they aren’t."

I'm not certain that I have but, if so, I would never intend to do so. Afghan society is too complex to summarize so superficially.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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No one is planning to attack and take away nuclear weapons of Pakistan. This propaganda is spread purely to align people against USA and the likes.

That's for you to say. Just Google the multiple US think tank reports, the US secret war games and the rant from their politicians and others, it will be clear what one of the reason for US to make Pakistan into a civil war zone is nuclear, other reasons aside.
 
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govt. is taking measures to solve the problems in Baluchistan province. How will civilians or FC react if confidence building measures are de-railed due to drones.

Like i said, we do threat assesment and go after those who pose threat to Pakistan. That is our first priority.

I highly doubt that Army or Govt. will allow any misadventure in Baluchistan. It will also cause major anger among Iranian Baluch, and things will get VERY complicated then.


I think we shouldn't put much thought into S-2's emotion-driven rants.

According to his logic, I can go break into my neighbour's house (a former friend) and re-arrange furniture, mess up the place, and kill off the owners. Then the intruder talks about demanding protection from the inevitable backlash.



taleban say: Americans have the watch, we have the time. 2001-2004 period saw some stability. Taleban were ousted by the invaders, and taleban hardly put up a fight because they had lost popularity. But this trend reversed when US carried out airstrikes which killed scores of civilians. Drugs production is spiralling out of control (much to the chargine of Russia/EU, Iran, Pakistan). War-lords still control much of the country. Even Kabul is once again becoming unsafe.


US/NATO brought no change to Afghanistan. It was responsibility of the world (US/Pakistan/all other countries) to have helped Afghanistan as soon as the soviets withdrew. Their country was completely destroyed. When you have people who are in poor living conditions, who are un-educated, where violence takes place every day -- what do you think would happen even within 5 years?

how many arms and ammunition were abandoned when soviets withdrew?


Pakistan wants a stable and secure Afghanistan. It is in our interests. That way, 5 million Afghans can be repatriated and we can continue to contribute towards Afghan economy.

There will only be stability in Afghanistan when foreign forces withdraw, and a coalition govt. involving ALL parties can be forged. The war-lord/narco-culture needs to end, but that may be asking for just too much.

Americans have the convenience of withdrawing --regardless of face-saving. We are the ones living in this neighbourhood, therefore our concerns should be addressed first.

And it goes without saying, we will never allow Afghanistan to become a base for anti-Pakistani activity. I can assure you that. Given our strong experience and knowledge of the neighbour country, we will do all we can to ensure this does not happen.
 
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Gin Ka Pakistan s2 resides on another forum as well a sweet friend to indians on that forum..here look below:
>>The disease is just to the east. What would it take to TREAT the disease? Can the Pakistani military, most of all it's nuclear weapons, be neutralized or destroyed without them launching a nuclear reprisal on India?Would we have to use our own strategic assets to do so or can it be done conventionally?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/12923-pak-us-relationship-17.html#post559029




It was earlier brought to my knowledge the type of CRAP that this man is saying about Pakistan. He also used name-calling/ad-hominem attacks against certain Pakistani members.


let him appease the indians.....he can dress up as "cow" and do dance for them maybe
 
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Pakistan won't allow it due to some strategic issues.

Thanks for the insight. But this brings me back to my initial concerns, whether pakistan does not want US to eliminate some targets.

Remember There is a selective action of PA in waziristan depending upon wether its North or South. You must be aware that SW is stronghold of TTP while NW consists of Afghan taliban and PA's focus so far has only been SW. This adds to my doubts that those strategic issues you are referring to may be,a future pain in the @$s for US/ India. So thats why US is hell bent to strike there. And thats why pakistan want to avoid that just as it wants to avoid actions against the "good" afghan taliban.
 
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"Why is afghan society too complex to summarize ?"

I don't believe I said it couldn't be summarized.
 
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"So why refuse our offer to fence the border?"

I don't recall that we have but, more importantly, it's not our choice to fence your border. Nothing prevents Pakistan from doing so on its side of the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Fence away. Build mine fields if you wish. I personally think it's a bad and unmanageable idea but it's not America's decision.

US generals have always openly opposed this idea in the media. Though, the question still remains why it isn't your choice to assist in fencing the border since it will be in everyone's interest to keep those miscreants from regrouping on the Pakistani side of the border as you always purportedly claim? I don't understand the negligence and reluctance.

"Why insist on killing our innocent sons and daughters at the expense of a handful of miscreants..."

Your notion of "handful" is interesting given that FATAville is awash in these "miscreants". Great swaths of Pakistani land have been functionally seized by these men and there's a very real war being fought.

I don't recall "insist[ing]" that we kill innocents along with the enemy but you'd be insane to believe that your own army hasn't killed an innocent civilian or two in the course of its operations. HELLFIRE is a precision anti-tank weapon. It hits with amazing accuracy that for which it's aimed.

However, I'd encourage Pakistanis not to aid and abet these men. When you choose to associate or co-habitate with them, you are likely to suffer for that choice. In short, don't live near nor stand next to people that are candidates for HELLFIRE.

Have you actually performed a count on the battlefield of how many foreign insurgents are currently present in the Tribal Areas? I mean, you certainly seem like a very convinced man to me. I would be highly appreciative if you could provide me with accurate stats of the amount of insurgents crossing over and operating in the Tribal Areas. That would be very helpful in shaping my opinion on this matter. Though, in my humble opinion, it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the whole basket.

Would you apply the same logic when the PA was operating drones in the US and killing mostly innocent bystanders? Please answer this question with full honesty. For one moment, place yourself in the shoes of the innocent locals that are facing the drone missiles.

It has been widely reported in your own media that since 2006, analysis indicates, 82 U.S. drone attacks in Pakistan have killed between 750 and 1,000 innocent people. Among them were about 20 leaders of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and allied groups, all of whom have been killed since January 2008. The rest have been civilians. The accuracy of those hellfire missiles is highly questionable to say the least.

Why do you suspect Pakistanis to aid these men? Who are you to decide where the Pakistanis should live on their own land? How are the locals to identify friend from foe? Who is the enemy and on what criteria does the US differentiate between locals and foe?

"Wouldn't that be helpful in preventing the sanctuaries from being formed?"

You seem not to understand that sanctuary was a choice made by Pakistan back in early 2002. This is an old issue that's finally receiving its just due as the central core issue of this insurgency. Reconciliation of sanctuary as an issue will determine whether Pakistan is welcomed to the family of nations or on the outside looking in along with a select group of others.

That's a fact and it is a reflection of the seriousness of this particular issue. Most Pakistanis have been led to believe that providing our enemy with sanctuary comes with no cost to themselves.

Not so.

Literally everything that's happened to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and America has been a result of decisions to provide sanctuary, to include the taliban's decision to do so for Al Qaeda back in the late nineties. Following 9/11, that sanctuary was no longer respected.

Thanks.:usflag:

I fully understand that after the Cold War the US decided to pack its bags and leave the mess that they created. What was Pakistan to do in such a messy environment when neighbouring countries exploited the situation? The reason why Afghanistan, Pakistan and the world at large is facing this menace is due to US incompetence and negligence after the Cold War. Had the US not left Afghanistan as an open field for the Mujahideen and instead rebuilt the country we wouldn't be facing this situation today. These are genuine underlying reasons for the current debacle.

The sanctuary debate is very much arguable. Perhaps you're right that some foreign fighters are sneaking in and hiding in these remote places close to the border. That's something totally different to the accusation that Pakistan is providing these sanctuaries with their own hands. Why would the Pakistanis provide shelter to terrorists that are hell bent on wreaking havoc all across the country? Why would Pakistanis provide sanctuary to terrorists that form a security threat? Your statements are quite contradictory in that sense.
 
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Why is afghan society too complex to summarize ? apart from prevalent theories.

regional loyalties vs. national loyalty.....ethnic over-tones. It really is a deeply divided country; we saw this prior to soviet invasion as well as subsequently -during civil war.

I do hope situation improves, though I am not too optimistic; unless things radically change - which they aren't.
 
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