Pakistan not ‘gouging’ over NATO’s Afghan routes: Khar

[VCheng]

The intruders'.
They shouldnt be there and should go away.

But what about the reasons for the regional intrusion and the causes thereof?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are playing the broken old record.
There are millions of israelis living in USA--does that mean israel is a poor country?
While i am not saying pakistan is a rich country but reasons of living abroad are not limited to finances.

Every nation wants self respect.self reliance and freedom.
And USA is consistantly taking away all these from Pakistan,thats why pakistanis are annoyed.

Correction: Millions of Jews not millions of Isreali's, there is a differance there. Oh sorry your one of the 'rich' Pakistani's. Let me than disabuse you of a few things. Most Pakistan are living in the West because of finances. Why else would they live amongst thye 'Kufar'? Millions more would come here was it not for immigration controls.

Do you know where we need self respect? Millions of us have lied and cheated to get to the West. We lie, we forge, we hide in lorries, catch boats and risk our lives to come to the 'Kuffar' West. Wonder why?

And F-16s can go to scrap yard? Well pretty boy your sat all safe and enscoced in the West but you want to ask PAF chief why they bought those F-16s? Do you know how much they cost to buy? The US refused to sell them to us and eventually we managed to get 18 in 2009. All the rest are being upgraded in Turkey.

You might think they are 'white elephants' but PAF thinks differant because the PAF is the main strike fighter against any other threats to Pakistan from India. It is the only PAF plane that can tackle Indian Su-30s. THe PAF F-16s in tandem with the Swedish Hawkeye are the cutting edge of Pakistani air defence. Both are from the West.

If the US told the Turks to not upgrade the Pakistani F-16s the Turks would listen to USA. Go ask the Turkish members here. Our expensive F-16s would be just junk than. There are other things also but you should get the picture -
F-16s can go to scrap yard,they have always been white elephants.

Can you also find out the following?

1. What are the largest markets for Pakistani exports [ Hint USA and Europe ]

2. If USA and the West denied us their market what would happen to Pakistani economy. [ Hint we would be bankrupt ]

3. How much of foreign remittances that help to float Pak economy come from the West? [Hint a lot ]

 

[Caine]

In fact Pakistan should not scale down the demand for money..Ramp it up and ask more money per truck....as USA is now tasting the bitterness of their Arrogance..
100 Million a months...Lets see for how long they can sustain that.

Thats 1.2 billion USD per year. <0.2% of our defense budget. You really want to make that your biggest bargaining point?

 

[Safriz]

the f16 deal was going on since the cold war era. Much of the payment wss made in 90s,so PAF had to complete the deal.
Once PAF gets rid of reliance on USA.
Money can be spared for purchase of cheaper and far more reliable chinese jets.
Plus f16 have many strings attached. USA bars PAF from usimg them outside pakistani territory so they are useless anyway.

Thats 1.2 billion USD per year. <0.2% of our defense budget. You really want to make that your biggest bargaining point?

Much more is spent on WOT.
Which is a USA imposed war.
So pakistan will be financially better off without USA

and 1.2 billion?
Thats a laughable amount

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The intruders'.
They shouldnt be there and should go away.

Dong ........ Dong ............ Dong You hit the hammer on the head " they should'nt be there" because no instruders means no Drones and means no crazy Yanks.

"They should go away" Eh? How? By using the magic Abracadebrah go away? Who is going to make them go away? If we did that, had we done that or better not allowed these intruders into Pakistan in the first place there would be no crazy Yanks in our country.

But we did not do that that and even now we are not seriously doing it.

If we had not let OBL 'intrude' into Pakistan or failing that if we had caught Bin Laden there would have been no US 'intrusion' of Pakistani sovereignity' when those US Navy SEAL'S came to Abbotabad.

 

[Safriz]

Dong ........ Dong ............ Dong You hit the hammer on the head " they should'nt be there" because no instruders means no Drones and means no crazy Yanks.

"They should go away" Eh? How? By using the magic Abracadebrah go away? Who is going to make them go away? If we did that, had we done that or better not allowed these intruders into Pakistan in the first place there would be no crazy Yanks in our country.

But we did not do that that and even now we are not seriously doing it.

If we had not let OBL 'intrude' into Pakistan or failing that if we had caught Bin Laden there would have been no US 'intrusion' of Pakistani sovereignity' when those US Navy SEAL'S came to Abbotabad.

Now you are contradicting yourself.
You are insisting that pakistanis should love their reliance on USA. And then you say no americans no drones.
Get your "qibla" right dude. First know what to like and what not to like.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

the f16 deal was going on since the cold war era. Much of the payment wss made in 90s,so PAF had to complete the deal.
Once PAF gets rid of reliance on USA.
Money can be spared for purchase of cheaper and far more reliable chinese jets.
Plus f16 have many strings attached. USA bars PAF from usimg them outside pakistani territory so they are useless anyway.

Those 18 F-16 jets Pakistan bought in 2009 had nothing, repeat nothing to do with the 1990s. In fact PAF wanted 32 F-16s but because of finance problems and the 2005 earthquake the order was reduced to 18. Exactly how are you qualified on Pakistan's air defence needs when your sat pretty enjoying Her Majesty the Queen's protection?

What I do know Pakistan Airforce wanted the F-16s and the Saab Hawkeye Awacs systems. The Chinese planes do not stand a chance against Indian Russian made Su-30s.

Sarfriz why not ask the Chinese members in China Defence forum what does the Chinese Air force use as it's frontline strike fighter? Guess what the Russian made Su-30. What does that tell you?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The simplest solution to the USA problem of removing heavy equipment from Afghanistan post 2013 would be for the USA to give that equipment to the Afghan army and/or to the Pakistani army. Anything vital to the USA in a national secret-sense could be flown out or taken over the norther route out of Afghanistan. After all, post-Afghanistan, the USA shouldn't be engaging in such fights that it needs the heavy equipment it brought in over the past 10 years. Give the most sophisticated equipment to Pakistan, if it is too much for the Afghani's to use. In the meantime, the USA should just spend the extra $1B per year and let the Pakistani truckers find new customers. And, the Pentagon can easily offset the extra $1B per year out of the funds it had planned to spend for military assistance to Pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Sarfriz there is no such thing as love betwen countries. what you think this is a story of a girl meets boy? A state is a institution. If the interests of two states converge they work togather and when they diverge they walk away.

For reasons of Pakistan's trade with the West, millions of Pakistani's living in the West [ like you and me ] and our continued dependancy on Western defence products and financial needs our interests do converge with the West.

Of course there may come a time that China buys all our exports, provides us all the financial help and perhaps you and me give up our Her Majesty the Queen's Passport and move to china to enjoy their hospitality than maybe it might be time to change our policy and say to USA ...... Piss Off !!!

Somehow I get a feeling your not about to give up your British Passport .............. ha Ha Ha.

 

[Don Jaguar]

Give the most sophisticated equipment to Pakistan

That's like my brother.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Sarfriz

Read this .... "China &#8216;close to buying $4 bln worth&#8217; of Russian Su-35 top interceptors"

China

Why would the Chinese buy these Russian Su-35s if they their own fighters are so good? Because their fighters are okay but they cannot match Indian Russian made Su-30s.

" India buys russian Su-30s" India set to buy 42 more Russian Su-30 fighter jets | Defense | RIA Novosti

Can you see wiseguy why PAF wanted F-16s because although even they would struggle against Indian Su-30s but at least they would stand some chance. The Chinese know it, PAF knows it but Sarfriz thinks differant !!!

 

[Safriz]

@Atanz.
You may be some lazy git living on state benifits,but diffetent story with me. I generated lots of revenue for british government and sent lots of money to pakistan , so my presence in any of the two countries cannot be frowned upon.

About F-16 . What good is a plane if parys supply isnt reliable and restrictions on use?
Thats why chinese fighters will be better.
In 90s or 2000 when the f16s deal was made chinese jets werent mature even then PAF main stay were F-7.
Now jf-17 and j-11b are far more suited to PAF needs but no money to buy them because money spent on F-16s
Plus f-16s werent gifted to pakistan,they were sold and pakistan paid for,so stop being so thankful to USA.
And i see you too are resident in UK,
So please scrape yourself from the floor and learn to live with some self respect.
We are here because we do tnings the locals either wont or cant,and the money we earn is well deserved.
Get yourself out of your inferiority complex.

 

[Safriz]

The simplest solution to the USA problem of removing heavy equipment from Afghanistan post 2013 would be for the USA to give that equipment to the Afghan army and/or to the Pakistani army. Anything vital to the USA in a national secret-sense could be flown out or taken over the norther route out of Afghanistan. After all, post-Afghanistan, the USA shouldn't be engaging in such fights that it needs the heavy equipment it brought in over the past 10 years. Give the most sophisticated equipment to Pakistan, if it is too much for the Afghani's to use. In the meantime, the USA should just spend the extra $1B per year and let the Pakistani truckers find new customers. And, the Pentagon can easily offset the extra $1B per year out of the funds it had planned to spend for military assistance to Pakistan.

You should be the next senator

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Atanz.
You may be some lazy git living on state benifits,but diffetent story with me. I generated lots of revenue for british government and sent lots of money to pakistan , so my presence in any of the two countries cannot be frowned upon.

About F-16 . What good is a plane if parys supply isnt reliable and restrictions on use?
Thats why chinese fighters will be better.
In 90s or 2000 when the f16s deal was made chinese jets werent mature even then PAF main stay were F-7.
Now jf-17 and j-11b are far more suited to PAF needs but no money to buy them because money spent on F-16s
Plus f-16s werent gifted to pakistan,they were sold and pakistan paid for,so stop being so thankful to USA.
And i see you too are resident in UK,
So please scrape yourself from the floor and learn to live with some self respect.
We are here because we do tnings the locals either wont or cant,and the money we earn is well deserved.
Get yourself out of your inferiority complex.

Sarfriz I am bluntly honest. I am here in UK because it allows me to make more money and get a education. Full Stop. This is not about self respect or being thankfull.

I have already covered the subject of countries, their interests and how they can converge or diverge .

In so far as self respect that you seem to keep bringing up both of us need to be honest here. First we are here for the extra money - You said as much and how much money you make. That even the Queen must be happy with your tax payments. Bravo to you.

But that still means your in UK for your own interest and saying anything short of that would be egregious lie. Your in it for the money. Don't kid yourself in thinking that the British want us here. I am sure your aware most English people want Pakistani's out of UK. Why else why here living with the 'Kuffar' in a 'Kaffir' country? Is that self respect? Hiow many English do you see living in Pakistan?

Real self respect would be if we could live in our own land and earn money with self respect intact in our own land. The sad truth is as you must know to get anywhere in Pakistan you have to use 'sifarish', corruption etc. If you run into somebody bigger or richer or more powerfull than you, you have to mind yourself othwise you will get the proverbial 'dhanda'. That is what most Pakistani's have to live with.

So don't come here and preach self respect. I know what that is and I also know most Pakistani's compromise it everyday of their lives. Perhaps that maybe the reason why they use the word 'respect' every second word because there is dearth of self respect in their lives. So let us not delude ourselves.

You might be rich, great for you but what about all those Pakistani's that hide in trucks or risk being drowned in boats to get to Europe, that is the ugly reality so let us come down to earth and take a reality pill. Let us be modest and truthfull. Don't blow so much hot air.

The day when we will have self respect in Pakistan is the day when the poor are cared for, the weak are protected, the infirm are treated, the young are taught, the common man does not have to say 'Jee' or 'Sahib' to the rich and powerful and millions of us don't have to catch boats, hide, risk and lie to get to the West so that we can earn some pounds to send back to our loved ones in Pakistan.

That is the day we will have real respect. That is also te day rest of the world will respect us. Right now you land any airport in the world and they will look at a Pakistani in a circumspect way. Watch how they will treat the Japanese, the Malaysian or American.

 

[FireFighter]

Thats 1.2 billion USD per year. <0.2% of our defense budget. You really want to make that your biggest bargaining point?

It's not a bargaining point at all. At least I don't see it as such. It's the price Nato/US is paying for killing 24 Pak soldiers.

Also its a strategic decision, and one that aligns with Pakistan's future interest regional interest.

Next would be shooting down the drones/closing that drone operation in the FATA region.