Pakistan Navy's answer SM-2 for Brahmos.

[jagjitnatt]

Unfortunately here in this thread their are very very few indians who have contributed with constructive arguments.
And their are many Indians who just post without researching and without reading what has already been posted because most of their absurd questions have already been answered.
Posts like Bharamos cant be defeated by any ship launched SAMs and that Pak Navy cant afford upgrades on these frigates are just mere ignorance and subject of being trolling.

What is there to discuss dude??

- a missile that Pak is not getting?
- how it can kill brahmos?
- how these frigates are free?

Speculation over another speculation. I don't expect you to understand anything. You've proved yourself.

We are all aware of your intellect.

 

[Isaq Khan]

Unfortunately here in this thread their are very very few indians who have contributed with constructive arguments.
And their are many Indians who just post without researching and without reading what has already been posted because most of their absurd questions have already been answered.
Posts like Bharamos cant be defeated by any ship launched SAMs and that Pak Navy cant afford upgrades on these frigates are just mere ignorance and subject of being trolling.

But every silly question gets a silly answer how can u expect something else.

U have started a imaginative dream sequence.

And on top of it added Brahmos just to flame but have no link or sources to prove just shutting every member up because u don't have something to offer in this thread.

 

[Kinetic]

^^^

Who said that PN is not going to upgrade the OHPs after it receives the ships?

Because it is not doing so.

$ 78 million dollar includes the ship, parts and logistic support. So tell me (if you can) where the SM-2 comes into the picture?

I don't expect any source from Growler, because who ever ask about his dreams are trolls!!! Than again SM-2 vs Brahmos, which is very unlikely scenario!!!

In every post I asked for a source he denied it with calling me troll!!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Here you deserve that award after you have clearly proved that indeed you are not just a troll and a low quality poster but dumbest of all.



1) I hope you have two functional eyes let along a brain.
Watch the video again very carefully because you need to be very attentive!
YouTube - SM2 Launch

I will post this news with the biggest font this forum has just for you so that you can read without having any difficulties.

Navy tests new SM-2 missile
source: australianaviation.com.au
The RAN has successfully test fired a Raytheon SM-2 surface-to-air missile from the FFG frigate HMAS Melbourne during a test at the off the East Australian Exercise Area off Jervis Bay on the NSW south coast.

The SM-2 will provide the RAN with an enhanced medium to long range anti-air capability, and has been introduced on the four remaining Adelaide class frigates as part of the FFG-UP program over the past few years.

“HMAS Melbourne is now equipped with two modern missile systems to combat anti-ship missiles and aircraft,” said Minister for Defence Personnel, Materiel and Science, Greg Combet in a statement. “The missile was fired from the missile launching system that has recently been modified as part of the project to replace the SM-1 in the upgraded FFG. This firing is a significant achievement and provides confidence in the ship’s updated weapon control system.”

The FFG-UP program was previously considered a ‘program of risk’ but has turned the corner in the past couple of years following the intervention of Minister Combet and an improved working relationship between industry and Defence. All four vessels have been re-delivered to the RAN.


The MK41 installed in RAN FFGs will be equipped with quad cells to house 4 ESSM in each of the 8 MK41 cells.

This is ESSM launched from MK41.


2) OH really? says the guy with peanut size brain with weak eye sight and the lack of comprehension ability.

Source: Raytheon


3) be proud that you have achieved one thing in this forum and it is the dumbest award.

Ahhh hnnn.. I remember something from the past.

One thing is quite clear that you simply lack comprehension ability of my posts which is simply beyond your mental capacity.

What is there to discuss dude??

- a missile that Pak is not getting?
- how it can kill brahmos?
- how these frigates are free?

Speculation over another speculation. I don't expect you to understand anything. You've proved yourself.

We are all aware of your intellect.

Now you are resorting to trolling with your absurd counter arguments. If you cant do research on your own then read what is already provided in this thread and enlighten yourself.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

But every silly question gets a silly answer how can u expect something else.

U have started a imaginative dream sequence.

And on top of it added Brahmos just to flame but have no link or sources to prove just shutting every member up because u don't have something to offer in this thread.

Just dont post here if you think the thread is silly.
I can understand that since you have no knowledge and understanding of military matters you are going to have hard time comprehending technical materials provided here.
Your military knowledge is only limited to wikipeedia and bharatraksaw materials, kindly come out of the bobble.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Because it is not doing so.

$ 78 million dollar includes the ship, parts and logistic support. So tell me (if you can) where the SM-2 comes into the picture? I don't expect any source from Growler, because who ever ask about his dreams are trolls!!! Than again SM-2 vs Brahmos, which is very unlikely scenario!!!
In every post I asked for a source he denied it with calling me troll!!

Oh I see. Pakistani military acquisitions are usually matter of to some degree secrecy and usually reveals its plans just before signing of the contract. The initial stage of PN FFGs will be refurbishments and then apart from this refurbishment the frigates will receive a modern capabilities through upgrades at either our own expense or US military aid plan. The PN P-3C 900 million dollars up gradation is the prime example which will have enhance capability in ASW and AShW roles. The SM-2 discussion is based on educated guesses and logic which certainly most indians lack to comprehend. The frigates main launching system the MK-13 is specifically designed for Standard Missiles series (SM-2) and Harpoon missiles.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Ahhh hnnn.. I remember something from the past.

One thing is quite clear that you simply lack comprehension ability of my posts which is simply beyond your mental capacity.



Now you are resorting to trolling with your absurd counter arguments. If you cant do research on your own then read what is already provided in this thread and enlighten yourself.

Well you are the one with the absurd imagination posting threads without a credible evidence and when we counter it, you rubbish it due to lack of research. Just great, but as I said what better can be expected of you?

Give us a credible link and I'll believe what you say.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Well you are the one with the absurd imagination posting threads without a credible evidence and when we counter it, you rubbish it due to lack of research. Just great, but as I said what better can be expected of you?

Give us a credible link and I'll believe what you say.

Not bothering wasting my time with this troll on explaining logical PN acquisitions.
You always dodge my posts and resort to repeating same thing over and over again like a repeater.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Because it is not doing so.

$ 78 million dollar includes the ship, parts and logistic support. So tell me (if you can) where the SM-2 comes into the picture?

I don't expect any source from Growler, because who ever ask about his dreams are trolls!!! Than again SM-2 vs Brahmos, which is very unlikely scenario!!!

In every post I asked for a source he denied it with calling me troll!!

What Growler is trying to say is that initally PN is just paying for the refurbishment, with gradual time it will go for the upgrades. Theres nothing thats stopping PN from getting these upgrades in the future, projects like these are not done overnight, it takes time.

Just look at the surplus F16 Block 15's that PAF recieved from US, alot of people in Pakistan were pissed at this decision because it was not the latest F16 variant. But guess what, these Block 15's are going through MLU upgrade and their avionics/radar will be upgraded to Block 52 standards.

It took almost 5 years for the MLU deal to go through; what makes you think once PN recieves the OHP, they wont go for the upgrades in 5 years time. I am sure the naval planners in Pakistan would have done their homework before acquiring these ships, its logical to assume that after acquiring these ships PN would definitely go for the upgrades.

 

[deckingraj]

What Growler is trying to say is that initally PN is just paying for the refurbishment, with gradual time it will go for the upgrades. Theres nothing thats stopping PN from getting these upgrades in the future, projects like these are not done overnight, it takes time.

Sir, can you please point any post where he clearly says this...Just look at the title for god sake... Anyways i have followed this thread from post 1 and no one is challenging that PN cannot upgrade these frigades...However those upgrades are not part of this deal(Good will Gesture- whatever you wanna call it) and here we are not only talking about those upgrades(which are still not in paper and at best logical guess) but also saying PN has got answer to Brahmos...Isnt it a bit absurd???

Just look at the surplus F16 Block 15's that PAF recieved from US, alot of people in Pakistan were pissed at this decision because it was not the latest F16 variant. But guess what, these Block 15's are going through MLU upgrade and their avionics/radar will be upgraded to Block 52 standards.

And no one is challenging that....Howver i am sure you would agree there has to e a difference b/w a logical guess vs a closed deal...We all know how time consuming are such deals and it takes a significant amount of time before they fructify leave aside actual ground work...Moreover one has to ensure funds are there...Mind it i am not saying that PN can't afford it but no one can deny cash crunch can also be a problem...

It took almost 5 years for the MLU deal to go through; what makes you think once PN recieves the OHP, they wont go for the upgrades in 5 years time. I am sure the naval planners in Pakistan would have done their homework before acquiring these ships, its logical to assume that after acquiring these ships PN would definitely go for the upgrades.

Which is fine....As said many times this is a logical guess...but what's wrong in saying it??? However the way this thread has been brought up and discussed so far it gives an impression that you are already getting all this in $76 million....the reason almost every member is asking for any credible source and in turn being labeled as a TROLL....

 

[deckingraj]

for ur kind info china has a deep planes for thunder they are evaluating it as per their own needs that is the reason they have introduced a new engine particular for thunder as we all knw that is ws 13 or 10.. surly they have a strategic planes regarding jf 17 thunder that is the reason china is spending sone much of money r&d and time on evaluation of thunders and making its performance better u should keep in touch with latest affairs

Is it specualation at its best or you have any credible source for your claims??? I think lot of people need to keep in touch with latest affairs so would appreciate if you can help us....

 

[deckingraj]

Man i was sure that some fool will ask this Question,

Wow.. I must admire your etiquette capabilities of finding a nice way to answer a question asked in a very humble manner with the intentions of drawing a parallel...

JF17 is just a light multirole aircraft which will be taking over the aging fleet of F7s, they where made according to our requirements.

I am glad atleast you said this....However many wise men from you side gives lengthy explanation of how it can take on even MKI's...So somebody is playing fool here...

BrahMos might be the most advance, invincible, fast missile for you(still dont know why Russian haven't abducted it yet), but JF17s are not our front line fighters(china haven't abducted it yet cuz they have more advance aircraft then jf17), Same is the case with Mitsubishi F-2, it was a joint venture between US and Japan but US dosent operate it
And i never said that JF17 was a junk so as brahmos, so plz try to read before firing your guns,

Am i jumping guns or you have?? Who simply failed to comprehend a simple analogy which is the way China has not inducted JF17 does not make the fighter any less lethal than what it is(whether it is light weight or whatever) similarly saying that Russia did not inducted this missile won't make the missile any less lethal than what it is.

I have shared many times how many different variants of Brahmos have seen the light from her mainly anti-ship role...All three of our forces are more than keen to induct Brahmos and here you are questioning about its lethality??? Moreover the thread you are participating have a heading that in form of SM-2(which is at best a logical guess) is an answer to India's Brahmos... Doesn't all this speak volumes about the missile and its might???

Now lets comes to Russia...Few reasons that i can think of..

- There doctornie which prevents them from inducting anything that has dependency on third party....This is not a small aspect which can be ignored....The only time that i can think of when they give an exception to this is recent announcement about procurement of UAV from Israel...but then this is one field where they lack behind their counterparts(read US) by a big margin...

- Since they are signitory to MCTR they cannot indulge in JV for a cruise missile having range of more than 300 KM... Now care to explain me how this missile with such a limited range can be of help to Russia against a possible conflict with US???

Don't you think it would make more sense to keep investing in this missile and come up with Hypersonic versions and use those learnings in home grown projects of same kind???? Moreover its export variants will also bring in much needed $$$....


Now care to exaplain why would they induct CM that only gives them range of 290 KM???

As i have answered my question, now its your turn
if BrahMos is invisible, fastest, coolest missile in the world as Indians over here claims, then why Russians don't have it in there service yet???

I have... However you need to more pragmatic in understanding the point before giving names like Fools...We all are here to learn...I may be wrong so why don't you correct me...calling me a fool just shows your intellect level...Hope you would not stoop again to the same level and counter me with logic not BS

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I am expecting some constructive counter arguments for a helpful discussions and i have no reason to call this post a "trolling" post. Unfortunately for this thread, you are one of the few indian who has posted a valid argument but most of it has already been answered.

Sir, can you please point any post where he clearly says this...Just look at the title for god sake... Anyways i have followed this thread from post 1 and no one is challenging that PN cannot upgrade these frigades...However those upgrades are not part of this deal(Good will Gesture- whatever you wanna call it) and here we are not only talking about those upgrades(which are still not in paper and at best logical guess) but also saying PN has got answer to Brahmos...Isnt it a bit absurd???

You have either not read the entire thread from post 1 or you have ignored my posts and trolling indian posts.
Kindly go few pages back where most of indians are ranting on PN lack of funds to upgrade these frigates and their illusions of Brahmos being a Cruise Missile that cant not be countered by SM-2.
Kindly go few posts back where i have clearly stated that PN acquisition of SM-2 is based on my educated and logic sense and I have already given good and valid explanations. And it is starting to get really boring to repeat same thing over and over again to clarify things for new comers who have not been fallowing the discussion.
All the questions you have asked have been already answered.

And no one is challenging that....Howver i am sure you would agree there has to e a difference b/w a logical guess vs a closed deal...We all know how time consuming are such deals and it takes a significant amount of time before they fructify leave aside actual ground work...Moreover one has to ensure funds are there...Mind it i am not saying that PN can't afford it but no one can deny cash crunch can also be a problem...

Like I have said. MK-13 launching system is specifically made for Harpoons and Standard Missiles and no other weapons can be fired from it. Leaving only one possibility that under a major armament package it will only include Standard Missiles and more Harpoons that PN has recently inducted.
As for time consuming deals. PAF acquired AGM-154 just within few months after signing the contract.

US has provided Pakistan Air Force (PAF) with AGM-154 'Beyond Visual Range (BVR)' stand-off missiles, ostensibly to target terrorist hideouts.
While state-run news agency said Pakistan has attained another landmark in modern missile technology by producing a joint standoff weapon system capable of hitting "over-the-horizon" targets with accuracy, AGM-154 system was provided by US ahead of President George W Bush's visit to the country.

The list of F-16 armaments such as AMRAAM, JDAM, AGM-64, etc after signing the contract will be delivered after 3-1/2 years. (2006- 2010) Thats 3 years and 6 months and considering the fact that F-16 production is a time consuming process which will be dilivered along with all the package accompanied by US officials to ensure its safety.
IMO if SM-2 were to be ordered today it could take 12-24 months for delivery.

Which is fine....As said many times this is a logical guess...but what's wrong in saying it??? However the way this thread has been brought up and discussed so far it gives an impression that you are already getting all this in $76 million....the reason almost every member is asking for any credible source and in turn being labeled as a TROLL....

You can interpret it how ever you want.

 

[deckingraj]

I am expecting some constructive counter arguments for a helpful discussions and i have no reason to call this post a "trolling" post. Unfortunately for this thread, you are one of the few indian who has posted a valid argument but most of it has already been answered.

You have either not read the entire thread from post 1 or you have ignored my posts and trolling indian posts.
Kindly go few pages back where most of indians are ranting on PN lack of funds to upgrade these frigates and their illusions of Brahmos being a Cruise Missile that cant not be countered by SM-2.
Kindly go few posts back where i have clearly stated that PN acquisition of SM-2 is based on my educated and logic sense and I have already given good and valid explanations. And it is starting to get really boring to repeat same thing over and over again to clarify things for new comers who have not been fallowing the discussion.
All the questions you have asked have been already answered.

Aplogies if i missed them...I thought i had good grip on this thread but seems i missed....

Like I have said. MK-13 launching system is specifically made for Harpoons and Standard Missiles and no other weapons can be fired from it. Leaving only one possibility that under a major armament package it will only include Standard Missiles and more Harpoons that PN has recently inducted.
As for time consuming deals. PAF acquired AGM-154 just within few months after signing the contract.

As you said it is a logical guess and i have no problems in agreeing to what you are saying here...However my advice change the title because that gives an impression that it is a fact...We need to keep a difference between a fact and something which has very high probablity of happening...However defence deals are very complex and can bring in surprising results...So one cannot claim anything unless and until there is anything legaly binding...I hope you get what i am trying to say....

The list of F-16 armaments such as AMRAAM, JDAM, AGM-64, etc after signing the contract will be delivered after 3-1/2 years. (2006- 2010) Thats 3 years and 6 months and considering the fact that F-16 production is a time consuming process which will be dilivered along with all the package accompanied by US officials to ensure its safety.

At best a possibility...and i Have no doubts you would do whatever to get the best for you...You have done in the past and you will certainly do in the future....However unless and until something is finalized lets not over glorify it...We have done discussion on future and we can discuss this as well on as a future goal..

IMO if SM-2 were to be ordered today it could take 12-24 months for delivery.

You can interpret it how ever you want.

Its not my interpretation but a general one....Indo-Pak scenario has lot of sensitivity and suddenly if you claim something which can take on Brahmos without even clinging a deal people from other side are bound to react the way they did...As said many times call it a logical guess and discuss(referring to your thread title)...i am sure few of us(excluding me) knows a thing or two about defence and can share knowledge....

 

[deckingraj]

@Members

Thread Starter has clearly said that it is his logical conclusion that PN will get SM-2 and nothing concrete...I agree that title is a little misleading however we have discussed many times about scenario where we compare things that are inducted vs future induction....

Lets for the sake of argument create a hypothetical scenario.. Let me share things that i am ruling out or applying
- Pak will get SM-2 missiles
- Induction will happen before Brahmos Hypersonic Version or in other words please don't bring in SM-2 vs Hypersonic Version

Now having those two conditions can you please validate/correct thread starter claim that PN has got an answer to Brahmos...

I am doing my research as well but if i go with the manufacturer claims they clearly say it can get a kill against supersonic missiles....So lets give the debate a new direction....

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@Mods : If you deem fit please change the title of the thread....Will/have caused unnecessary trolling...