Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
If it was with consent no problem but if the US acted irrationally and parked it, their are millions of ways of blowing it up and making it look like an accident. Military needs to learn how to lay the bait. But time and time again it disappoints me greatly.
Even Operation Swift Retort should've shot down all Indian jets that was possible; you exert maximum pressure. If their was fear of it turning into a shooting match might as well have not even bothered with the operation to begin with. If I acted like the Pak Military, my competitor last year wouldn't be in the homeless shelter with his wife and kids, in his place it would've been me. Often times you need to be in a shooting match to reap its rewards.
Firstly I am not a Serviceman, just a Civvie like you. Secondly we are all entitled to an opinion and I have exercised my right. I write based on my assessment of the situation. Only Allah knows what will happen in case of a War but it will be my kith and kin who will become dust like you and yours. I dont mind dying personally but dying without any justifiable cause is foolishness. The Quran states that "we have ordained Qitaal on you even though it is disliked by you". Who but your creator knows what his creation feels.Respected sir ,
I may be a lazy bloody civilian but the tangential gripe and a plethora of excuses to avoid a fight with the enemy coming from an ex service man is just shameful
The only thing that stood out as strange to me was the line about anechoic tiles, literally all modern submarines use them, they’re a rather basic technology to reduce submarine signatures and hence modern equipment takes them into account as a standard parameter.Good display of vigilance by Pakistan Navy (PN).
Some members complained that the intrusive submarine should have been engaged and destroyed even though it was noticed operating much further from Pakistani territorial waters (stretching up to 12 KM from land) at the time of intercept.
My take is that a response should be 'measured' and PN made the right call in view of its observations. WE should engage/kill/destroy when absolutely necessary.
There are also speculations about what can and cannot be detected. I would say that nothing is certain. There are statements and then there are interpretations.
See my explanation below.
Friend, your POV is not practical. Such an attempt will lead to war and I do not have to explain further. What a member might tell you is open to interpretation and inconclusive. Never jump to conclusion on mere statements.
One revelation is that an Ohio-class was involved in Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) which was launched in 2001; in what capacity is unclear. But it shall be kept in mind that OEF was launched with Pakistani consent.
Americans surprised Pakistan on 02-05-11 with Operation Neptune Spear (ONS) - you may say acted irrationally on this day. They came prepared for eventualities though, and there were 'reports' of some of the United States Navy (USN) submarines loitering around. These 'reports' could be from Western sources at a later stage; I have seen a source as well which provided a wider overview of developments on this day. I do not recall Pakistani reports in relation; PN said nothing in relation either.
Ohio-class is not a frequent visitor to Pakistani waters and Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) - its activity in these waters is not even news on the web.
If an Ohio-class is noticed operating near a country (or hostile forces) then this was intentional to send a message:
"The Iranian Navy claims that the American submarine was operating close to where it has been conducting a major exercise this week and that it left after being detected. It's extremely rare to see U.S. Navy submarines sailing so close to the surface like this anywhere in the world, let alone in any sort of proximity to potential hostile forces."
Iran Films One Of America's Most Powerful Submarines Lurking Near Its Military Exercise
The video offers a rare glimpse of an Ohio class guided-missile submarine, one of which is in the region, sailing at periscope depth in tense waters.www.thedrive.com
Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and United States Navy (USN) do not have a working relationship but Iran had to show restraint.
Pakistan Navy (PN) and USN have a working relationship on the other hand.
- - - -
In case of hostilities, an Ohio-class is equipped to strike at a country from considerable distance(s). There is no need to park it very close to a country. It can arrive in Arabian Sea without warning because it is nuclear powered and there is no need to operate it at periscope depth. It can unload its payload on designated targets while submerged. It has significant passive sensor technology and techniques to mask its acoustics in order to avoid detection from a distance. There are too many unknowns in this case.
"By virtue of their concealment and endurance, the SSGN platform forces our adversaries to consider that they could be operating almost anywhere at any time. The sensor suite on the boat allows the captain to gather information and intelligence in situ, passing that back to the commander and responding on the spot. When you combine all that with the tremendous combat capability the boat brings – land attack missiles, special forces, torpedoes – that's a lot of bets the enemy has to cover down on." - Vice Admiral John Richardson
- - - -
If a submarine uses active sonar while operating close to a country with maritime surveillance capabilities, it can give its position. If not then it will be difficult to detect and track unless its acoustics are known.
PN have fairly good knowledge of Scorpene-class and its acoustics. There was substantial leak in 2016.
French shipbuilder DCNS suffers major data leak
Confidential details of DCNS’s Scorpene-class submarine, which is in use by India, Malaysia, and Chile were leaked in a 22K+ page document.quwa.org
It helped.
PN can also observe and keep tabs on Indian maritime activity and ports due to geographical proximity. Decades of observation can provide valuable insight.
But a war with India will present operational realities which are infinitely greater than detecting, tracking and forcing a lone submarine to surface while operating close to Pakistani border in scope. Indian ocean is big and PN does not have aircraft carrier(s).
WE will have to account for Arihant-class and Kilo-class submarines among other assets of the Indian Navy (IN). Arihant-class and Kilo-class make use of anechoic tiles to mask their acoustics.
The bottom line: WE should fight on a bigger level when absolutely necessary.
Operation Swift Retort (OSR) was an achievement on many counts. It was years in the making, however.
1. After the Kargil Conflict in 1999, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) wanted to achieve technological superiority over the Indian Air Force (IAF). This took time (2002 - 2018).
1.1. PAF updated and expanded its F-16 fleet with support of USA and Turkey. USA provided more F-16s including Block 52+ and others were given MLU treatment. BVR engagement capability was established with reliable AMRAAM munition (PAF received AIM-120C-5 variant).
1.2. JF-17 Thunder program took shape and could be advanced much further with support of China. Block 2 could be inducted in numbers before 2019. BVR engagement capability was established with SD-10A munition.
1.3. PAF updated and expanded its AEW&C fleet with support of Switzerland and China.
1.4. PAF has a dedicated EW platform and Squadron.
"Pakistan was armed with better fighter planes, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missiles like AMRAAMs and backed by state-of-the-art SAAB airborne warning and control systems (AWACS), and left the Indian Air Force wanting in many places."
Not much has changed for IAF a year after it was outgunned by Pakistan
India has made some progress in moving to acquire fighters, tech and equipment but it is yet to get its hands on any.theprint.in
Rare admission in Indian press.
IAF found Russian R77 munition lacking and its jet fighter radio communications to be insecure.
"Times of India reported citing Indian Air Force sources that IAF Su-30MKI made an u-turn after facing battering rounds of American-made beyond visual range missile AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM and loosing an aircraft."
Russian Missiles Don’t Work, Says Indian Air Force
Russian R-77 Missile Outgunned by Pakistani Air Force AIM-120C AMRAAM’s range and accuracy fired from American-made F-16C/D, India is now looking to Israel, from whom it has purchased numerou…www.globaldefensecorp.com
- - - -
IAF has ordered Software Defined Radios (SDR) from Israel to make its jet fighter radio communications secure.
Report: India Acquires SDR Systems from Rafael
The Indian Air Force has made an emergency purchase of BNET Software Defined Radio (SDR) systems from Rafael, according to a report by Times News Network. The air force has reportedly decided to buy SDRs immediately after February’s Balakot airstrike and the ensuing dogfights. “During both...www.israeldefense.co.il
Rafael sells BNET-AR to Asian air force | Shephard
Israeli company finds Asian customer for airborne software-defined radios.www.shephardmedia.com
IAF is also inducting Rafale F3-R with Meteor BVR munition to match further advances of PAF.
- - - -
2. After loosing a jet fighter (or two), IAF was on the retreat from the Line Of Control (LOC).
PAF would have had to dispatch F-16s with CFTs to pursue retreating IAF jet fighters deep inside Indian space. This was unnecessary and could escalate ongoing exchange to next level. See point 3 below.
Indian pilot Abhinandan Varthaman was sufficient to embarass India.
3. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was not thinking straight at the time. He was contemplating other options.
India, Pakistan threatened to unleash missiles at each other: sources
The sparring between India and Pakistan last month threatened to spiral out of control and only interventions by U.S. officials, including National Security Advisor John Bolton, headed off a bigger conflict, five sources familiar with the events said.www.reuters.com
“Night of Murder”: On the Brink of Nuclear War in South Asia
After a suicide attack in Kashmir that killed 46 policemen, India conducted an airstrike against what it called a “terrorist training camp” in Pakistan.www.nti.org
De-escalation was the way forward.
OSR was a measured response to Indian provocations at the time.
Overdoing something can backfire as well.
The bottom line: WE should fight on a bigger level when absolutely necessary.
Good display of vigilance by Pakistan Navy (PN).
Some members complained that the intrusive submarine should have been engaged and destroyed even though it was noticed operating much further from Pakistani territorial waters (stretching up to 12 KM from land) at the time of intercept.
One revelation is that an Ohio-class was involved in Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) which was launched in 2001; in what capacity is unclear. But it shall be kept in mind that OEF was launched with Pakistani consent.
Thanks for the pointer. I updated that statement.The only thing that stood out as strange to me was the line about anechoic tiles, literally all modern submarines use them, they’re a rather basic technology to reduce submarine signatures and hence modern equipment takes them into account as a standard parameter.
Good write up though
Thanks for the pointer. I fixed this typo.Agree with your assessment with a minor correction
Territorial waters are 12NM ~ 22Km from the coast line not 12KM.
On what planet?
It was Kalveri ... Initially there were mixed claims.
Bro personally ni lete baton ko. Thori effort chinese anti vaxxers ko den.
Why Pakistan always lets the spying Indian submarines go like that? I mean Pakistani Flight Atlantic-91 was also shot down in the same area years ago. Have we forgotten it?Pak Navy once again detects, blocks Indian submarine from entering into Pakistani waters
October 19, 2021 --- Web Desk
RAWALPINDI (92 News) – Pakistan Navy with its unremitting vigilance and professional competence has once again detected and blocked the Indian submarine on Oct 16, 2021 from entering into Pakistani waters.
During the prevailing security milieu, a strict monitoring watch has been kept by Pakistan Navy to safeguard maritime frontiers of Pakistan. It is the third incident of its kind wherein, an Indian Naval Submarine has been prematurely detected and tracked by PN Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft.
The recent incident reflects the deplorable Indian machinations vis-à-vis commitment and resolve of Pakistan Navy to defend maritime frontiers of the Motherland.
Pak Navy once again detects, blocks Indian submarine from entering into Pakistani waters (92newshd.tv)
PN blocks Indian submarine’s attempt to enter Pakistani waters
FILE PHOTO
RAWALPINDI:
The Pakistan Navy blocked the attempt by a submarine of the Indian navy to enter the waters of Pakistan, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said on Tuesday.
According to a statement issued by the military's media wing, the Indian submarine tried to enter Pakistani waters on October 16, but it was "prematurely detected and tracked" by the Pakistan Navy.
"It is the third incident of its kind wherein, an Indian submarine has been prematurely detected and tracked by Pakistan Navy's Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft," the statement added.
"During the prevailing security milieu, a strict monitoring watch has been kept by Pakistan Navy to safeguard the maritime frontiers of Pakistan," the ISPR maintained.
"The recent incident reflects the deplorable Indian machinations vis-à-vis commitment and resolve of Pakistan Navy to defend maritime frontiers of the Motherland," it added.
PN blocks Indian submarine’s attempt to enter Pakistani waters (tribune.com.pk)
if our radars detect IAF jets inside India or in international airspace does that mean that PAF should shoot them out?Why you always comment on my views? please leave me alone. you don't understand technical details. You are happy just because we detected this sub. This is Good for you, not for me. I believe in Aggressive posture and not defensive.
I am not worried about detection. I am thinking about how it slips through in our water. How many days this sub stayed undetected in our water? We must analyze everything because we are dealing with a clever enemy. What is India trying to achieve in our waters? Are they mining vital points using submarines? There are lots of questions.if our radars detect IAF jets inside India or in international airspace does that mean that PAF should shoot them out?
They are smuggling arms and terrorists or testing our defenses, even worse laying sensors to detect ship / Submarine positions. With CPEC being attacked by Indian agents Pakistan should be on high alert 24X7.I am not worried about detection. I am thinking about how it slips through in our water. How many days this sub stayed undetected in our water? We must analyze everything because we are dealing with a clever enemy. What is India trying to achieve in our waters? Are they mining vital points using submarines? There are lots of questions.