Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You are blaming PAF for spending money on the very tech that helped give us an overwhelming advantage on 27th Feb? Block 52 is still most advanced plane in South Asia at the moment.

PAF has put MASSIVE resources into JF-17 and Project AZM

Well, the F-16A/B MLU and AMRAAM-C5 knocked out the IAF, not the Block-52.

My point being, some programs were a good call (MLU), but others, such as Block-52, there should've been a deeper discussion. This was a thing we spent scarce national funds on, and have yet to follow-up with another order (thus sunk overhead costs for its infrastructure, maintenance, etc).

In house rebuild of SAAB 2000 after Kamra attack helped us regain a credible AEW capability and even order more at very low cost

Fair, but following adversity. If that attack had taken place, would the PAF have made such an investment?

PN has made constant procurement mistakes and wrong moves. Only reason for 8 Hangor subs and new Chinese frigates is need of China to protect CPEC.

We consistantly failed to capitalise on AGOSTA 90B Sub project. All that skill set has been lost.

We purchased Lynx Helicopters that we retired after just 5 years of use

No dispute here.

OHP Frigate project was a joke. We thought we would get 6 and ended up with 1 minus SAM system

The OHP suffered from the same issue as the F-16s, i.e., US reluctance. If things had gone the PAF's way in terms of F-16s, things would've gone the PN's way in terms of the OHPs.

Bluntly put. PAF is a world class Air Force if you speak to any US, NATO, Chinese officer. Ask any foreign Naval officer about PN and they may respect it, but far far from world class.

Sure, but we're talking about who's pushing the needle in terms of original design work relative to their resources. The PN, at this time, is pushing farther than the PAF, but we can agree to disagree.

 

[Blacklight]

PN has made constant procurement mistakes and wrong moves. Only reason for 8 Hangor subs and new Chinese frigates is need of China to protect CPEC.

It is more than CPEC. In a few years time, we will revisit this statement, and you will realize why the 8 subs are required.

With the IN growing, the shortest route to achieving capable defence / deterrent is via subs.

 

[Yasser76]

Well, the F-16A/B MLU and AMRAAM-C5 knocked out the IAF, not the Block-52.

My point being, some programs were a good call (MLU), but others, such as Block-52, there should've been a deeper discussion. This was a thing we spent scarce national funds on, and have yet to follow-up with another order (thus sunk overhead costs for its infrastructure, maintenance, etc).


Fair, but following adversity. If that attack had taken place, would the PAF have made such an investment?


No dispute here.


The OHP suffered from the same issue as the F-16s, i.e., US reluctance. If things had gone the PAF's way in terms of F-16s, things would've gone the PN's way in terms of the OHPs.


Sure, but we're talking about who's pushing the needle in terms of original design work relative to their resources. The PN, at this time, is pushing farther than the PAF, but we can agree to disagree.

You are being pedantic here, the MLU/AMRAAM/Block 52 was the same package. You know this very well.

You are also very aware that the original intent and notification to DSCA in the US was fro 36 Block 52s not 18, the 2005 Eearthquake cut funds.

OHP issue was putting our eggs in one basket. PAF has successfully spread risk and invested in the infrastructure that will make us independent in air defence in 20 years. PN cannot boast this.

Bilal I respect you very much and you do an amazing job with what you have created at Quwa but please, you need to give credit where it is due. Yes, PN are benefitting from Pakistan and China realising it has been neglected for too long, but it is a stretch of the imgination to claim PN has been been more daring. Currently PAC/PAF is exporting home built fighters to Africa and Asia. PN Shipyards cannot build a frigate as of today.

It is more than CPEC. In a few years time, we will revisit this statement, and you will realize why the 8 subs are required.

With the IN growing, the shortest route to achieving capable defence / deterrent is via subs.

Yes, I know, you have the ear of PN chief and will reveal all rest of us mere bystanders. Thank you Saab.

 

[Blacklight]

Yes, I know, you have the ear of PN chief and will reveal all rest of us mere bystanders. Thank you Saab.

Well if you are going to be sarcastic, here is another one for you. Of the 8 subs coming in IA, all of them are not identical.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You are being pedantic here, the MLU/AMRAAM/Block 52 was the same package. You know this very well.

You are also very aware that the original intent and notification to DSCA in the US was fro 36 Block 52s not 18, the 2005 Eearthquake cut funds.

OHP issue was putting our eggs in one basket. PAF has successfully spread risk and invested in the infrastructure that will make us independent in air defence in 20 years. PN cannot boast this.

Bilal I respect you very much and you do an amazing job with what you have created at Quwa but please, you need to give credit where it is due. Yes, PN are benefitting from Pakistan and China realising it has been neglected for too long, but it is a stretch of the imgination to claim PN has been been more daring. Currently PAC/PAF is exporting home built fighters to Africa and Asia. PN Shipyards cannot build a frigate as of today.



Yes, I know, you have the ear of PN chief and will reveal all rest of us mere bystanders. Thank you Saab.

With respect bro, we're not going to see eye to eye on this (no matter how much Taher Shah might try).

 

[fatman17]

Alleged construction of a Chinese naval base at Gawadar

 

[Yasser76]

With respect bro, we're not going to see eye to eye on this (no matter how much Taher Shah might try).

 

[syed_yusuf]

Well if you are going to be sarcastic, here is another one for you. Of the 8 subs coming in IA, all of them are not identical.

Yes they are 4 + 4 of two different kind

 

[Lone Ranger]

Yes they are 4 + 4 of two different kind

Well if you are going to be sarcastic, here is another one for you. Of the 8 subs coming in IA, all of them are not identical.

aip fast attack + boomer?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Its difficult to match Indian Army divisions on 1 to 1 basis and remote chances of PN operating an aircraft carrier or destroyer.

But there is not much difference between IA and PA equipments. India has currently 11 destroyers and is going for 4 more latest ones. PN needs atleast 4 destroyers

 

[khanasifm]

Alleged construction of a Chinese naval base at Gawadar View attachment 638915View attachment 638916View attachment 638917View attachment 638918

Indian and other countries propaganda this was marked as pns Akram long time. Ago and Chinese are welcomed as well

 

[fatman17]

Good to know. Thanks for pointing out but remember at some point in the medium term, the Chinese navy will be using gwadar, it is inevitable because of cpec investment and it will not be a bad thing.

Indian and other countries propaganda this was marked as pns Akram long time. Ago and Chinese are welcomed as well

 

[ghazi52]

 

[CriticalThought]

Well, the F-16A/B MLU and AMRAAM-C5 knocked out the IAF, not the Block-52.

You didn't get MLU as an independent deal, it was a package with Block-52. That is, if you hadn't spent money/funds/CSF whatever on Block-52, there would be no MLU either.

I have always supported buying very small numbers of the most top notch fighter available. And that is because PAF is not in the business of creating new knowledge. It is in the business of acquiring new knowledge from others. With the induction of top end fighters, PAF gets to know what is out there in the world, first hand. With this knowledge, it can push the boundaries in indigenous programs. Now, even if these top end fighters turn out to be hangar queens during battle because of a kill switch, that is OK. You will find me shouting about kill switches and what nots. All that stands, but at the same time, I am not against judicious expenditure towards acquisition of very small numbers of the most top end technologies in existence. Which means, if PAF can get its hands on the F-35, it should. The platform doesn't matter, the training our pilots will go through is the real gold.

 

[fatman17]

16x VLS, AESA Radar, Integrated Mast, Genesis Combat Management System. Its almost a Frigate. https://t.co/HLZfMMpWBB