Pakistan Navy interested in J-11Bs

[Penguin]

actually it is, and thats a fact, feel free to counter it. The MKI is by far the best in Asia.

You can have the best aircraft yet still be unable to take full advantage of it e.g. due to doctrine, pilot training, other causes.
E.g. Germany with Me-262: should never have been attempted to turn it into a fighter-bomber, this would have cut at least a year of it's introduction into service, putting it in action at a time when fuel shortages weren't as bad. Mig-29 and Su-27 are excellent dogfighters, often better than Western counterparts, but if they get knocked down by superior BVR capabilities in those otherwise inferior Western aircraft, what good does the dogfighting capability do you? Likewise, compare which planes Israel had in past conflicts compared to other combattants, and then compare doctrine. Which air forces were effective?
What if you have an excellent even BVR capable aircraft and your missiles turn out to fail (e.g. due to poor production quality or because of poor storage condition)?

In sum: a lot of different factors are involved in making a combat aircraft effective and the actual aircraft itself is just one of those factors.

 

[DARKY]

You can have the best aircraft yet still be unable to take full advantage of it e.g. due to doctrine, pilot training, other causes.
E.g. Germany with Me-262: should never have been attempted to turn it into a fighter-bomber, this would have cut at least a year of it's introduction into service, putting it in action at a time when fuel shortages weren't as bad. Mig-29 and Su-27 are excellent dogfighters, often better than Western counterparts, but if they get knocked down by superior BVR capabilities in those otherwise inferior Western aircraft, what good does the dogfighting capability do you? Likewise, compare which planes Israel had in past conflicts compared to other combattants, and then compare doctrine. Which air forces were effective?
What if you have an excellent even BVR capable aircraft and your missiles turn out to fail (e.g. due to poor production quality or because of poor storage condition)?

In sum: a lot of different factors are involved in making a combat aircraft effective and the actual aircraft itself is just one of those factors.

I guess you do realize......that latter flanker variants......house far better electronics than their earlier counterparts.......I would dare and say comparable if not better than their western counterparts/competitors parts........about storage and maintenance part.......It takes a pleasure to state that they are used extensively......for training purpose......long duration missions coupled with infight refuelings often are in excess of 10+ hours.....the flankers have hardly seen aircrashes in their decade long service life with IAF.........a couple of them were due to position of some control switches which were to be be used during excessive maneuver performance.......however it was corrected immediately on all of them.....I would also like to mention that......most of the flanker pilots notch 250+ hours/annum and some topguns are able to come up with a figure around 300 hours/annum........There are many such pilots with 1000+hour extensive training on them......It would be expected of them to perform according to the doctrine which IAF feels best for the region.......and about weapons part.......let me tell you armed forces of India conduct at least two joint exercises every year involving all three forces with full war like environment using highly integrated networking, ECM, realtime satellite imagery, and harsh climatic and geographical situations where capabilities of in storage weapons is tested by live fire demonstration.....however due to economic boom and current threat situation from both sides of border as many as three such exercises would be carried out......hope this sums up the different factors involved according to my limited knowledge on to keep the capabilities of flankers/weapons systems in the IAF inventory.

 

[desiman]

Cant expect anything better than this anyways, but yes I still stick what I said.

 

[desiman]

You can have the best aircraft yet still be unable to take full advantage of it e.g. due to doctrine, pilot training, other causes.
E.g. Germany with Me-262: should never have been attempted to turn it into a fighter-bomber, this would have cut at least a year of it's introduction into service, putting it in action at a time when fuel shortages weren't as bad. Mig-29 and Su-27 are excellent dogfighters, often better than Western counterparts, but if they get knocked down by superior BVR capabilities in those otherwise inferior Western aircraft, what good does the dogfighting capability do you? Likewise, compare which planes Israel had in past conflicts compared to other combattants, and then compare doctrine. Which air forces were effective?
What if you have an excellent even BVR capable aircraft and your missiles turn out to fail (e.g. due to poor production quality or because of poor storage condition)?

In sum: a lot of different factors are involved in making a combat aircraft effective and the actual aircraft itself is just one of those factors.

you point is valid, I am just rating aircraft on tech specs, on that basis the MKI is right up there, only the Eurofighter or the upgraded F-15 comes close but as they will never be involved in a war in Asia specifically South Asia, the MKI is by far the best.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Cant expect anything better than this anyways, but yes I still stick what I said.

This is what you said

"actually it is, and thats a fact, feel free to counter it. The MKI is by far the best in Asia."

Lets take a closer look at the audacious statement that you made. South Korea operates the F15K's, they are a more advanced version of the F15E and can outclass the MKI any day. It has extremely advanced avionics, superior weapons systems, latest American ECM pods, AESA radar and everything cued up to JHMCS. Saudi F15 Silent Eagle will also offer the same package and not to mention the Saudi's operate the Typhoons. So how is the MKI in your own words, 'by far the best in Asia'. Is it by far because it is operated by the IAF , stop making the MKI into something its not.

TaimiKhan did not reply because it would have been a waste of time to reply to an idiotic statement like that, come to think of it now i am cursing myself as to why did i reply your absurd statement.

 

[Mani2020]

This is what you said

"actually it is, and thats a fact, feel free to counter it. The MKI is by far the best in Asia."

Lets take a closer look at the audacious statement that you made. South Korea operates the F15K's, they are a more advanced version of the F15E and can outclass the MKI any day. It has extremely advanced avionics, superior weapons systems, latest American ECM pods, AESA radar and everything cued up to JHMCS. Saudi F15 Silent Eagle will also offer the same package and not to mention the Saudi's operate the Typhoons. So how is the MKI in your own words, 'by far the best in Asia'. Is it by far because it is operated by the IAF , stop making the MKI into something its not.

TaimiKhan did not reply because it would have been a waste of time to reply to an idiotic statement like that, come to think of it now i am cursing myself as to why did i reply your absurd statement.

this was what i said to him in my 2nd last post in this thread , and now he has taken a 360 degree turn around by saying f-15 and Ef-2000 will not be involved blah blah and comes directly down from Asia to South Asia lol

I always say that he has bogus claims for everything and thats wat i also said to him in my second last post my exact words to him were

"I think you forgot F-15's of Royal Saudi airforce , they have F-15 eagles and F-15E strike eagle and not to mention the new order put by the Saudi's for F-15 silent eagles , you know what silent eagle is . and ouch what abt Ef-2000 in Saudi inventory

And ouch ouch you also forgot F-15's of Japan, North Korea and i can go on and on

But you know wat i m expecting some stupid logic from you because i know you are best at it, i have confronted you in past and i know with how bogus claims you come up with .

So i m done with it , now show the other forum members your talent with your baseless claims. Good Luck"

Check out the bold part i said about him and he once again lives to his reputation hahah

 

[nightcrawler]

Sukhois are getting upgraded avionics & their BVR well they outrange western counterparts in almost any profile ;R-77/27. But in whole this discussion this http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/109829-pakistan-navy-interested-j-11bs-16.html#post1909696 is the most sensible reply by Penguin

 

[TaimiKhan]

Cant expect anything better than this anyways, but yes I still stick what I said.

TaimiKhan did not reply because it would have been a waste of time to reply to an idiotic statement like that, come to think of it now i am cursing myself as to why did i reply your absurd statement.

That sums it up.

You guys are really delusional, hope you guys be that way.

Absurdness with absurd claims.

 

[Penguin]

I guess you do realize......that latter flanker variants......house far better electronics than their earlier counterparts.......I would dare and say comparable if not better than their western counterparts/competitors parts........about storage and maintenance part.......It takes a pleasure to state that they are used extensively......for training purpose......long duration missions coupled with infight refuelings often are in excess of 10+ hours.....the flankers have hardly seen aircrashes in their decade long service life with IAF.........a couple of them were due to position of some control switches which were to be be used during excessive maneuver performance.......however it was corrected immediately on all of them.....I would also like to mention that......most of the flanker pilots notch 250+ hours/annum and some topguns are able to come up with a figure around 300 hours/annum........There are many such pilots with 1000+hour extensive training on them......It would be expected of them to perform according to the doctrine which IAF feels best for the region.......and about weapons part.......let me tell you armed forces of India conduct at least two joint exercises every year involving all three forces with full war like environment using highly integrated networking, ECM, realtime satellite imagery, and harsh climatic and geographical situations where capabilities of in storage weapons is tested by live fire demonstration.....however due to economic boom and current threat situation from both sides of border as many as three such exercises would be carried out......hope this sums up the different factors involved according to my limited knowledge on to keep the capabilities of flankers/weapons systems in the IAF inventory.

It is folly to downplay llongstanding issues with ordnance and -storage:
1997 Iaf Draws Flak Over Defective Missiles
2000 Army repairs defective Russian anti-aircraft missiles
2009 Russia India defective provided air-to-air missiles
2010 http://zeenews./news/nation/russian-rockets-milan-missiles-defective-cag_646420.html

ANd the other things I mentioned ARE also important factors, whether you like it or not.

 

[DARKY]

It is folly to downplay llongstanding issues with ordnance and -storage:
1997 Iaf Draws Flak Over Defective Missiles
2000 Army repairs defective Russian anti-aircraft missiles
2009 Russia India defective provided air-to-air missiles
2010 http://zeenews./news/nation/russian-rockets-milan-missiles-defective-cag_646420.html

ANd the other things I mentioned ARE also important factors, whether you like it or not.

The links you have provided itself contains the answers to the servicebility issues raised by you.............NO WEAPON SYSTEM IS IMUNE TO AGING AND HUMAN ERRORS..............the AF officers and technicians were professionals who realised the defects and got them repaired............I guess that's why we have F-22A grounded.

 

[houshanghai]

china has stopped the import of al31f (su27)engine from russian now.

The results further shows that the current ws10a engine is good.

PLAAF's j11b（ws10a) of mass production

j15 with ws10a

j11bs with ws10a

thx Martian

 

[HKSDU]

Just my views:
China isn't going to export the J-11B, cause it doesn't want to really piss Russia off. Unless somehow they pay Russia royalty rights, but still highly doubt it. China has never offered the J-11B as export so I don't see why Russia was running around like headless chooks worrying.
The if so scenario. Can Pakistan support this aircraft as it is after all a twin engine heavy fighter, which require a lot of maintenance. And finally can they afford it. It ain't cheap.

 

[Areesh]

china has stopped the import of al31f (su27)engine from russian now.

The results further shows that the current ws10a engine is good.

the j11b（ws10a) of mass production

j15 with ws10a

j11bs with ws10a

thx Martian

So the Chinese engine is near to be operational now. Good news. I think this solves the russian engine issue.

 

[Dazzler]

It is in an aggressive test/ trial phase and Chinese are mounting it on many of their planes varying from j-10 to j-15. Good news as it is constantly improved and soon we might hear the IOC certification news.

 

[khurasaan1]

thnx bros for the nice enthusiastic news.........Alhamdolillah!...............