Armchair
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1.5 billions for only 30 helis, period.
There is a whole host of other things that could have been done for 1.5 billion. imho.
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1.5 billions for only 30 helis, period.
That's opportunity cost.There is a whole host of other things that could have been done for 1.5 billion. imho.
Well Pakistan has taken baby steps , which can be solidified with a Upgrading program on Ships we do have or will get soon.
Minor steps
View attachment 473705
Lineup looks promising , gives us a respectable form for Navy still a bit on low end but bettern then how things were in 90's
Would be great if we can also pick up some assets from Italy or Europe
Why u think ada class in it's original format cannot defend against air attack of all sorts that IN can throw at... Not having vls does not equate weak air defence
Ada class in it's current format with layered air defence fl3000n , ciws, main gun, eccm, irccm, chaff and flares provide adequate air defence for a 100 m long ship. With harba ssm, it can engage enemy targets at very long distances...
I am not understanding the logic ? Please explain
What does range has to do with defence against veriety of air threats. What u need is a quick reaction and information at longer range to prepare defencesWhile it may have its place in a flotilla, it likely wont survive a pitched battle against any Talwar, Shivalik, or likelyeven Brahmaputra Frigate let alone a Kolkata class destroyer. Mostly the Milgem doesnt carry any SAMs with enough ramge. To give the necessary reaction time to take out their ASHM, Especially when they carry nearly as many AShM as the MILGEM does ss.
What does range has to do with defence against veriety of air threats. What u need is a quick reaction and information at longer range to prepare defences
When it comes to defense against a missile flying at Mach 2 range has everything to do with it. To hit a missile with another missile is not simple and doesnt work always the first time. At that speed an FL-3000N with a range of 6km for supersonic missiles will have 5.8 seconds to react and launch 2-3 missiles in order have a chance of intercept. The Ada class doesnt have any other missile defense so im not sure what tiered defense you are referring to as the main gun nor the 12.7mm STAMP can intercept missiles like Brahmos. Now lets say that FL-3000N was able to react and fire 2-3 missiles in those 6 seconds... AShM are usually fired in volley to overcome air defenses. What will you do about the 2nd or 3rd Brahmos? And god forbid the missile is coming from front. With PDMS on Ada being in rear, you will not be able to defend. Ur ship will be hit and sunk. The whole purpose of the vls is 360 degree cover with larger longer range missiles without taking valuable deck space. An HQ-16 can intercept a missile much further out, allowing for more missiles to be targeted and a better probability to intercept all of them. The PDMS is meant as a 2nd line (or 3rd line if long range sam available) with CIWS being a last resort to pick off anything that makes it through long /medium/short range SAMs. That is the type of survivability PN needs.
Yes ideally the farther the better. But...
"For that purpose several missiles can be fired near simultaneously at the same target at ranges between 500-to-6000 meters. The FL-3000N missile flies at twice the speed of sound maneuvering at 20 times Earth's gravity (g) to successfully intercept its intended target." [ http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/FL-3000N_a002627002.aspx ]
Considerations from attacker point of view:
- The 400 KM reported range of Brahmos is in high-high flight profile. The launching surface vessel is relatively safe due to range but launched missile is easily detected and tracked due to high flight altitude. high-low range is around 290 KM. In this profile the launching ship has to come close and may be detected, also missile launch may be detected due to initial high altitude flight. low-low range is around 120 KM. It is most difficult to detect and track missiles in this profile but launching ship will in most cases will be counter-attacked and will have to jeopardize its own safety to come so close.
- In case of salvo of anti-ship missile has to be fired, they can not be fired together, they will be launched with gap of at least few seconds(this is important from defense point of view)
Consideration from defense point of view:
So on a large ship you will find a combination of all VLS, PDMS and CIWS. On smaller ships like frigate you have to choose which one suites better. And then you combine these ships together in a task force to provide all capabilities.
- The bottom-line being that own radars will be able to detect and track presence of enemy asset or incoming missile well before the missile is in range of FL-3000N. This allows for both ship to be maneuvered(slight left or right in case of head-on) and FL-3000N launcher to be pointed. As soon as missile is in range multiple FL-3000N can be launched.
- Also since FL-3000N have Infrared Image seekers they are truly fire and forget. VLS launched missiles like HQ-16 are not true fire & forget missiles. e.g. HQ-16 is passive radar homing missile which means it depends of ships radar to track the target. There is limit on how many targets a ship's radar can track simultaneously. So a ship might be carrying 32 HQ-16 but may only be able guide 8 of them at a time. Even active homing missiles depend on ship for guidance during initial stage of flight and only in last part of flight they fly on their own. Again subsequent missiles have to be launched with a gap of at least few seconds. This is where saturation attacks have their place. Fire so many missiles that ships air-defence missile can not track all of them. While FL-3000N has its disadvantage in terms of range, but has advantage of being truly fire and forget. Similarly FM-90 on board F-22P also have electro-optical guidance.
So Ada and F-22P may operate together one providing Short Range AD and CIWS, while other providing PDMS.
So let me take it point by point.
1.The range of Brahmos has little to donwith the equation so much as the speed of Brahmos. The speed (Mach 2.8) will allow it to cover the 6km range of FL-3000N in 5.8s.