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‘Pakistan missile project ahead of India’s’

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It i nice to listen such a pleasing news.
It is a sign of Superiority of Pakistani scientests over India
 
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India has many countries assisting them on their missile program and much better funding
pakistan is doing it's best with it's resources.
 
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It i nice to listen such a pleasing news.
It is a sign of Superiority of Pakistani scientests over India

Brothers .
Please try to understand this. We should take pride in the achievements of our scientist but continue to work harder still to achievebetter and better skills. We have a tendency to achieve a goal and then sit banging our chests till other nations pass us by and we are left behind. Therefore the need of the hour is modesty and continued hard work . There are a lot of milestones still left to achieve why should we think of India alone. We should be better than the rest of the world. That is what our aim should be.
WaSalam
Araz
 
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May be it is true. The whole world knows that the Indian program started 3 decades back. There were a string of failures before the sweet smell of success (as happens in any high-tech field). Such programs require the country to either have a strong Industrial infrastructure or develop one specifically for it as happened in India's case.

Now no one knows when the Pakistani program started, what kind of infrastructure is there in place to support such a program, what is the roadmap etc.? Never heard of a single test that ever didn't meet all the objectives (whatever that means) and the missile goes into serial production the next day. Even the USA and USSR coudn't achieve such feats! So either the Pakistani technicians and scientists are so brilliant (without parallel even in the Superpowers) in which case at least some of it should also reflect in other technical fields, or as the world suspects the missiles are proven missiles from some other source!

So may be Pakistan may possess some missiles which are ahead of their Indian counterparts but that does not mean what the report suggests. Pakistan will struggle to keep up the momentum in the absence of the requisite infrastructure. China may not be interested in supplying ICBMs etc. which could become a potential threat to them one day and which are not required for balancing India.

Is this is important that we tells you each and every thing about Missile Programe. and if we acheving such goals its defenatly our land marks. The first Atom Bomb was made by a team of scientists from a diffrent countries. Every one always is so worried about our Nuclear Assets and Missile Programe. no one never asked how India achived such goals independently in every Military project of India Russians are on there sides while Israel and Europe are supplyying support from the other Side ...

Dont worried about the Pakistani ICBM we have 2 stage missile programe we just need to add another stage of to that system...
 
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Is this is important that we tells you each and every thing about Missile Programe. and if we acheving such goals its defenatly our land marks. The first Atom Bomb was made by a team of scientists from a diffrent countries. Every one always is so worried about our Nuclear Assets and Missile Programe. no one never asked how India achived such goals independently in every Military project of India Russians are on there sides while Israel and Europe are supplyying support from the other Side ...

Dont worried about the Pakistani ICBM we have 2 stage missile programe we just need to add another stage of to that system...

Not to me, my friend. I don't really care. It does not matter to me who is ahead in a silly missile race when we are down in the dumps on the HDI front (India-129, Pakistan-134).

It's a matter of asking ourselves some critical questions and not to become a victim of some hype. I would think developing such high technologies require a certain technological and industrial base in the country to be built. They just can't come from thin air.

If you don't think it is required, I have no comments.
 
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This is the comment from a defence blog and it tells a lot about the India Missile system , DRDO and criticism of Indian media


Dr. Saraswat is entirely accurate in mentioning that the AAD is indeed superior to the PAC-3 in terms of range.

The following is the reply he gave in a special interview to Vivek Raghuvanshi :-

Q. What is Phase II?

Dr. Saraswat The same missile interceptors cannot cover all threats. Threat targets of longer ranges — 2,000 kilometers — will make our phase-II development.

During Phase I: Endo-atmospheric interceptor is AAD. This interceptor will engage targets at 25 kilometers. AAD is superior in terms of coverage area compared to PAC-3, which is 15 kilometers. You can see the difference. AAD’s equivalent is the Israeli Arrow, which intercepts at 40 kilometers. PAD is 50 to 80 kilometers. America is building a missile, THAAD — Terminal High Altitude Area Defense — that intercepts out to 120 kilometers, but it is still in development. However, a lot of failures have taken place during THAAD development.

Thus, as India's system is already superior to the PAC-3 in terms of range as well as interception,as per DRDO sources. Thus, the question of criticizing something they haven't made may not arise.

Mr. Aroor, you may have asked Lt. Gen Cavin about the higher range of Idnia's AAD as compared to the PAC-3. His response would have been much appreciated.

On the other hand, Mr. Cavin's remark about the Indian AAD's hit-to-kill probability too, may also be viewed as a "myopic critique based on predetermined illusions of technological superiority". It is disappointing that you did not "chide" Lt. Gen. Cavin in your article, they way you did to Dr. Saraswat (even though your reply to him that more tests are awaited was very appropriate, and corrected his opinion).


Now having discussed that, DRDO's interest in collaboration with Lockheed Martin is likely to be in the development of the active seekers for the AAD. Currently, AAD/PAD use radar seekers that allow for only proximity fuses (i.e. the interceptor exploding in the vicinity of the target). All major BMD systems like Aegis, Arrow and Patriot-3 have active infrared seekers that instead track the target's heat plumes. This ensures a direct "bullet-hitting-bullet" kill (instead of AAD's proximity kill), that leaves no probability for failure.

The same technological collaboration is being followed vis-a-vis other passively guided missiles like Trishul and Akash. Israeli collaboration for Trishul shall be in seeker-technology only, as currently the Trishul missile by itself is "blind", i.e. it is guided by commands from a far-off ground radar. Trishul is what is called a beam-riding missile. The ground radar first 'injects' Trishul into a wide beam that tells the general direction of the target. Later, it is injected into a narrower beam to converge upon the target, and finally into a pencil beam that tracks only the target. The 'challenge' with the Trishul was to prevent the inertia of the missile from oscillating in and out of the narrower beams from the wide beams. Its task is to not leave the beam zone and continuously predict the direction of its motion (as the beam follows the moving target) to remain centered on it, while propelling towards the target.

In 14 tests of the 20 tests between 2003 and 2006, it hit slower targets accurately, but in remaining 6 tests, its vicinity from the targets was larger.
Thus, the IAF was meant to negotiate the testing parameters with DRDO on the Trishul, which it has not yet done now since it promised to do so in 2006.

An active seeker instead will make make the Trishul similar to the Barak :- the missile is fired in the direction as instructed by the TEL just prior to launch. The missile keeps moving in that general direction based on the last known co-ordinates, speed and direction of the target. Whilst in flight, it keeps "hunting" for the target with its seeker : once within range, it homes in.

The Akash instead has granted some decision-making in the missile : the in-flight missile is guided by commands from the ground-radar for most of its flight. However, in the final 3-4 seconds, the in-flight Akash uses a semi-active seeker that "listens" for radar emissions from the target to home in accurately and minimize vicinity as much as possible.

In the US, beam-riding missiles (like Trishul) were replaced by semi-active missiles (like Akash) and now only active seeker missiles are used. The beam-riding missiles were mostly used to target slower targets like airplanes, whereas "nimbler" targets like cruise-missiles were tackled by semi-active and later active-seeking missiles like PAC-3.

The Nag's IIR seeker has been very successful, as since 1997 it has had numerous successful tests. Only its next generation millimeter wave seeker (possessed only by 3-4 nations) has had problems in development; however currently the Army is expecting user-trials of the IIR version Nag only. In contrast, Pak's anti-tank missiles are the 2nd gen wire guided ones, procured from China.

Thus, it is only seeker technologies that DRDO seeks from foreign countries; in all other aspects of missiles like radar, guidance software, launchers (from L&T), and propulsion, it matches or exceeds western nations. For example, the so-called "Maitri" missile project as described by a domain-b news report has the following reported inputs from France's MBDA :-
"Defence ministry sources indicate that the joint development plan would see the MBDA developing the active homing-head and thrust vector control systems for the missile, while the software, command-and-control system and system integration work would be carried out by the DRDL.

As per the news report, Maitri is said to be a follow-on to the Trishul project, whose status is unclear as yet. The same news report mentions collaboration with MBDA to provide active-seekers for the Astra missile also :-
"According to DRDL sources, India may also sign another pact with MBDA to develop a dedicated active seeker-head system for the indigenous Astra beyond-visual-range missile, which too has been a long time under development.

Thus, the recent conclusion of the IGDMP was to firstly announce the successful completion of the missiles (Trishul had been declared completed back in 2006, during the Barak missile scam). The announcement regarding collaboration with foreign nations is in the integration of miniaturized seekers only, as in the undecided "Maitri", seeker for the AAD and possibly, the Astra.

Thank you.

References :-

1) Interview with Vijay Kumar Saraswat :
Aero India 2007 News, Daily Aero India 2007 Show Coverage, Photos, Videos – Defense News

2)India successfully tests supersonic interceptor missile - Kerala & India News 4 Malayalees arround World

3) Beam-riding missiles
Beam riding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4) Paper from the beam-riding page of wikipedia
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMAFM05_1087/PV2005_6038.pdf

5) Missile guidance
[2.0] Early Radar Technology

6) DRDO to co-develop Maitri with MBDA.
domain-b.com : DRDO to develop quick reaction missile, Maitri, with MBDA
 
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Another Comment from the same Blog

All systems of the PAD-AAD have been developed indigenously, with possible exception of the tracking radar (that is reportedly imported from Israel). As per Dr. Saraswat, all softwares and critical systems for the same have been developed indigenously.

It maybe similar to purchasing a PC hardware without an operating system (like Windows) installed. The latter's analogue was developed indigenously by DRDO.


In case of Trishul, the Flycatcher fire control radar is a very standard radar used globally from India's Trishul, to the French-Israeli "Defender" LRQM, that launches Barak missiles. This radar was originally manufactured by the Dutch firm, Signaal, and has been highly customized by the French MBDA and India's BEL for the 'Defender' and Trishul systems respectively.

DRDO indigenously designed and developed the mid-band antenna for the Flycatcher indigenously and gave the ToT for the same to BEL. The low and high band antennas were procured from Signaal, Holland.

The Signaal company has been bought by Thales, which has now adopted the same radar for the French-Israeli 'Defender' Air Defence system.
 
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'Missiles under IGMDP have been successfully developed'


'Missiles under IGMDP have been successfully developed'

Fri, Jan 18 08:30 PM

By Praful Kumar Singh

New Delhi, Jan 18 (ANI): Countering some negative media reports on his press conference on January 8, Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) Chief Controller (R and D), Dr. Prahlada, today said the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) would come to a successful conclusion in December this year with the final testing of the Nag anti-tank missile.

The IGMDP was begun on July 22, 1983, with plans for the Agni, Prithvi, Trishul, Akash and Nag missiles. Initiated by DRDO scientists Anand Parthasarthy and A P J Abdul Kalam, each programme under the IGMDP was supposed to have been completed by December 1995.

"All these missiles have since been developed and are entering service in one form or another. With this, objectives of the IGMDP originally envisaged stand completed," Dr. Prahlada, who is also the chairman of the IGMDP board, told ANI in an exclusive interview.

"Strategic Missile Program is entirely indigenous and is being pursued through a number of separate projects. All of them are progressing as per schedule and no strategic system has been scrapped," he added.

The successful completion of the IGMDP does not mean that all work on the five missile projects is stopped immediately, he said.

Asked if the IGMDP was going to be replaced by another programme, he said missile-manufacturing capacities have to be expanded and further research and development in this area would be carried on a project-by-project basis.

He said two possible models were the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile that is a joint venture between India and Russia run on commercial lines, and the Astra, a beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile for which the DRDO is tying up with institutions in at least four countries.

Commenting on reports that the government has scrapped the project, Dr. Prahlada said: "One must understand the background of the IGMDP. It was started at a time when there was no help forthcoming from anywhere. That situation is not there now."

Dr. Prahlada said there were organisations from as many as 14 countries that were now willing to collaborate with the DRDO in developing missiles. Among these were the US, Israel, Germany, France and Russia, he added.

Dr. Prahlada said that the Indian media should avoid sensational stories, and added that if everyone thinks of himself or herself, who is going to look after the national interest. (ANI)
 
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I dont think its that much ahead.But I would say that both countries are Equal.

In few things India is ahead and in others pakistan.

India has 4000 km maximum range but Pakistan has 2500km (tested) can be increased to 3000km

So India has got more proven range.Pakistan claims to have developed Ghauri3 and Shaheen 3 missile but it hasnt tested it .May be due to political reasons.

In cruise missile our BABUR has longer range and is stealthier.

On the other hand Brahmos is SUPER SONIC.Its good in taking out ships.
 
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I dont think its that much ahead.

Not only much ahead, but miles away.


But I would say that both countries are Equal.

Have you even devloped your version SLV to sent satellite into the space?

In few things India is ahead and in others pakistan.

India has 4000 km maximum range but Pakistan has 2500km (tested) can be increased to 3000km

India has 4000 km maximum range HUH?

Where did you get this figure?


So India has got more proven range.

Proven range, what does this mean?

Pakistan claims to have developed Ghauri3 and Shaheen 3 missile but it hasnt tested it .May be due to political reasons.

Whatever!

In cruise missile our BABUR has longer range and is stealthier.

Offcourse it is a longer range, but steality, nah quite hard to digest. Even Tomhowk is penetratable with Anti-aircraft gun.

On the other hand Brahmos is SUPER SONIC.

It is not only supersonic, but unstoppable as well.

Its good in taking out ships.

Even Land version of Brahmos is developed and inducted as well.
 
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Kent, ...:smokin:

SLV you developed from Russian support (only they made it for you, since india has no expertice in it before that)...You had no infrustructure for Indi - genious developement of SLV.

Take your pride with you and sleep!....:wave:
 
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Kent, ...:smokin:

SLV you developed from Russian support

Yes, Not only from russia but also from NASA as well, I am not denying it but we have excelled its later version on our own like PSLV and Iconic GSLV.

(only they made it for you, since india has no expertice in it before that)...You had no infrustructure for Indi - genious developement of SLV.

Man I didn't raise fingure over indigenousness of pakistani missiles, rather their level of preposition vs Indian version.

Take your pride with you and sleep!....:wave:

I am very proud of My india which has joined elite club of Missiles developing country
 
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Kent,

Until India shifts from Liquid to Solid fuel based Missiles ... I will consider its infrusture in no league with Pakistan.

SLV is not a giant leap in technology if you donot have any Infrusture!
 
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I am very proud of My india which has joined elite club of Missiles developing country

It is great to take pride, no doubt. But little perspective is need of the hour. The most successful Missile --Prithvi is the result of Reverse engineering of SA-2. Remeber project "devil":devil:?


That is all for R& D and Pride:cheers:
 
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It is great to take pride, no doubt. But little perspective is need of the hour.

Great courtesy specially someone from you.

The most successful Missile --Prithvi is the result of Reverse engineering of SA-2. Remeber project "devil":devil:?

Yes definetly, but you should also hold in your mind that project Devil was failed and Indian scientist could not turn that SAM into an potent Surface to air missile. But Indian scientist did manage to amply hard lesson from Devil into Prithvi.


That is all for R& D and Pride:cheers:

Thanking You.
 
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