Pakistan Military options in Kashmir today - a perspective

[Areesh]

There are few contradiction with overall objective pf Pakistan.

1- Are you helping Kashmiri for Islamic cause or nationalistic cause? For me, Kashmir should be a nationalistic issue of Pakistan not religious one as It is the same Pakistan which is silent foe China and is muslim issue and Myanmar Muslim issue.Rather you sell fighter jet to Mynmar

2 - If you are fighting for your nationalisic cause, why are you expecting anything from people of Kashmir? At the end of the day, you need Kashmir to manage your water.

It is both a nationalistic and religious cause

1. Pakistan is an integral party to Kashmir dispute

2. Majority of Kashmiris are muslims who also happen to present on this side of border in big numbers

3. We expect Kashmiris to stand and fight because it is their Independence movement after all. If it wouldn't be their movement then India wouldn't have to impose lock down for more than 100 days

The audacity to compare Kashmiris to a ravaged and robbed people like the Afghans!

Even Afghans can use internet while Kashmiris .... The less the said the better

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

There are few contradiction with overall objective pf Pakistan.

1- Are you helping Kashmiri for Islamic cause or nationalistic cause? For me, Kashmir should be a nationalistic issue of Pakistan not religious one as It is the same Pakistan which is silent foe China and is muslim issue and Myanmar Muslim issue.Rather you sell fighter jet to Mynmar

2 - If you are fighting for your nationalisic cause, why are you expecting anything from people of Kashmir? At the end of the day, you need Kashmir to manage your water.

And Kashmiris want to preserve their race, culture and religion. So...

It is both a nationalistic and religious cause

1. Pakistan is an integral party to Kashmir dispute

2. Majority of Kashmiris are muslims who also happen to present on this side of border in big numbers

3. We expect Kashmiris to stand and fight because it is their Independence movement after all. If it wouldn't be their movement then India wouldn't have to impose lock down for more than 100 days



Even Afghans can use internet while Kashmiris .... The less the said the better

Kabuli**

Correct. I see posts as if Pakistani soldiers dying are for charity towards Kashmiris or something. If Pakistan wants to fight for Kashmir, good chance they've to deal with Kashmiris chilling at home.

The audacity to compare Kashmiris to a ravaged and robbed people like the Afghans!

*kabuli

 

[Kaniska]

And Kashmiris want to preserve their race, culture and religion. So...


Kabuli**


*kabuli

Good..Do you think a Tamil
People in South is less Tamil when they are part of Indian union or myself a Odiya guys is less Odiya when i am part of India?

The sheer arrogance of Kashmiri is surprising..India is a union of culture and races...And i do not buy your theory that Kashmir is only for Muslims...

 

[Signalian]

With such an overwhelming attack from Pak as OP describes, Pakistani coast will immediately be under attack from IN. In any case, there'll be regular visits by Scorpenes.

More than spreading your military thin, it has the effect of hollowing out your economy.

Over whelming attack ? I have mentioned short comings of Pakistan Army in this area of Kashmir.
Have you read about FCNA ? I am talking about just one side of Kashmir only and i have tried to portray the scenario as realistic as it can be.

Some Indian member asked me before, if war will be limited to this sector and i said NO. It's naive to think that Pakistan will attack just one part of Kashmir and remain silent everywhere else. Since you brought in Indian navy; as soon as Pakistan attacks Kashmir, PN will already be moving towards IN waters.

This post is about just one theater of war, to show that Pakistan Military is comparatively weaker in this sector and the formation deployed here (FCNA) will require assistance from other Military formations in order to make a breakthrough. This offensive is do-able of course however the terrain, weather, number of troops, resources - do not favor Pakistan here.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Good..Do you think a Tamil
People in South is less Tamil when they are part of Indian union or myself a Odiya guys is less Odiya when i am part of India?

The sheer arrogance of Kashmiri is surprising..India is a union of culture and races...And i do not buy your theory that Kashmir is only for Muslims...

Oh well, you do you.

 

[Kaniska]

Oh well, you do you.

Yes...I am an equal proud Odiya, Indian and Hindu the way a Kashmiri Muslim can be a kashmiri, a Muslim and a proud Indian...

 

[Psychic]

Obviously if war would happen then our soldiers would die but if local Kashmiris would sit in their homes and sip Kashmiri chai instead of fighting alongside Pakistani soldiers then that sacrifice is useless and meaningless

Do you know what is the security forces to civilian ratio in Kashmir? What your kind has been suggesting is easier said than done. There have been several uprisings including armed one which lasted till our favorite Musharraf surrendered after 2001-2 standoff and we asked them to adopt "peaceful means".

There is a limit to what human beings can endure. When your people are threatened with rape of your women folk in case of an uprising, well not much can be expected then.

Over 70,000 died out of a population of 6 million or so. Whatever little a besieged people could do has been done.

When they hit Indians hard like Pulwama, our PM declares it a tragedy and offers help to India; declares that anyone using weapons against occupying troops is an enemy of Pakistan. So, do what you preach.

British Military Review of the 1965 War

"the inhabitants of the valley, noted more for the beauty of their women, than the martial valour of their men, did not revolt"

The martial ones laid down their arms in front of five-foot fish eaters not a long time ago.

Still stuck in 65, I see.

Even AJK was not liberated by the so called martial races......

The martial race declared Pulwama attack a national and international tragedy as well.

 

[Lemuel]

Do you know what is the security forces to civilian ratio in Kashmir? What your kind has been suggesting is easier said than done. There have been several uprisings including armed one which lasted till our favorite Musharraf surrendered after 2001-2 standoff and we asked them to adopt "peaceful means".

There is a limit to what human beings can endure. When your people are threatened with rape of your women folk in case of an uprising, well not much can be expected then.

Over 70,000 died out of a population of 6 million or so. Whatever little a besieged people could do has been done.

When they hit Indians hard like Pulwama, our PM declares it a tragedy and offers help to India; declares that anyone using weapons against occupying troops is an enemy of Pakistan. So, do what you preach.

The martial ones laid down their arms in front of five-foot fish eaters not a long time ago.

Still stuck in 65, I see.

Even AJK was not liberated by the so called martial races......

The martial race declared Pulwama attack a national and international tragedy as well.

Its not just PKIK that said that. The UNSC passed a resolution condemning the attack and the organizations responsible(that just so happened to be based in Pakistan) and countries from the US to Russia to Bhutan condemned the terrorist attack, and many US Officials, congressmen, and Senators also condemned it.

And I do not buy the claim that Pakistan was serious about helping India investigate the attack, nor did it issue a serious condemnation. IK was just issuing lip service to please the international community, which was the smart thing to do at the time.

In hindsight, I believe the fallout from Pulwama actually helped achieve India's diplomatic and strategic objectives. But that is a completely different discussion.

 

[litman]

IOK is gone . it was never under our control. now we dont have any option other then making speeches. this is bitter reality unfortunately.

 

[Psychic]

Its not just PKIK that said that. The UNSC passed a resolution condemning the attack and the organizations responsible(that just so happened to be based in Pakistan) and countries from the US to Russia to Bhutan condemned the terrorist attack, and many US Officials, congressmen, and Senators also condemned it.

And I do not buy the claim that Pakistan was serious about helping India investigate the attack, nor did it issue a serious condemnation. IK was just issuing lip service to please the international community, which was the smart thing to do at the time.

In hindsight, I believe the fallout from Pulwama actually helped achieve India's diplomatic and strategic objectives. But that is a completely different discussion.

UNSC, USA and nations from bhutan to Russia should learn a thing or two about the Geneva Conventions and UN's own resolutions which permit armed struggle for freedom.

And we all know, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The Kurdish groups are a recent example of this.

I believe the fallout from Pulwama actually helped achieve India's diplomatic and strategic objectives.

Whatever objectives were achieved are in the gutter now thanks to abrogation of 370.

India controlled the vale in the past; it controls it today. It's image however, has been tarnished beyond recognition.

And I do not buy the claim that Pakistan was serious about helping India investigate the attack, nor did it issue a serious condemnation. IK was just issuing lip service to please the international community, which was the smart thing to do at the time.

Disagree.

Our state has done everything it could short of hanging hafiz saed or azhar. PMIK has openly declared that anyone trying to cross the LOC from this side is an enemy of Pakistan.

 

[Lemuel]

Whatever objectives were achieved are in the gutter now thanks to abrogation of 370.

India controlled the vale in the past; it controls it today. It's image however, has been tarnished beyond recognition.

I am going to have to disagree with you about that. Yes, liberal media outlets have been critical of India, and so have ultra-left politicians, but no government has harshly criticized India other than the holy trinity(China, Malaysia, Turkey) which was to be expected. Although Democrats in the US have openly criticized India over Kashmir, no major GOP congressmen have done so. In fact, several senior Republican Representatives have openly praised India for revoking Article 370 on the House floor. President Trump and Undersecretary Alice Wells have also supported India. I am also sure you remember what President Trump has called the same outlets that are writing about human rights violations? Also keep in mind that polls have shown that the majority of Americans do not trust the mainstream media. So while op-eds in favor of Pakistan on Kashmir are important, they do not have effect that some think they do. And even though they do change many minds, most of the Americans who have become more anti-India are liberal elitists in big coastal cities, the kind who also hate everything that Trump does(and that is one reason Democrats have become so anti India lately, because of Trump's support for Modi). Due to the US electoral college, those votes do not mean much in terms of influencing US elections.

Although the response could have admittedly been better, I overall think the events following August 5th have been favorable to India for the most part. But then again, it looks like we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Cuirassier]

Do you know what is the security forces to civilian ratio in Kashmir? What your kind has been suggesting is easier said than done. There have been several uprisings including armed one which lasted till our favorite Musharraf surrendered after 2001-2 standoff and we asked them to adopt "peaceful means".

There is a limit to what human beings can endure. When your people are threatened with rape of your women folk in case of an uprising, well not much can be expected then.

Over 70,000 died out of a population of 6 million or so. Whatever little a besieged people could do has been done.

When they hit Indians hard like Pulwama, our PM declares it a tragedy and offers help to India; declares that anyone using weapons against occupying troops is an enemy of Pakistan. So, do what you preach.

The martial ones laid down their arms in front of five-foot fish eaters not a long time ago.

Still stuck in 65, I see.

Even AJK was not liberated by the so called martial races......

The martial race declared Pulwama attack a national and international tragedy as well.

Mate you seem to have a very superficial idea military history. I can see the oozing bias for Valley Kashmiris (and assuming you're one too). AJK was liberated by Paharis, uprisings happened there too. Not a fan of online quarrel but it's your call.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Pak made two big errors.after abrogation, pakistan failed to brief international powers that it can no longer take the blame of terrorism lightly and strike back because after abrogation,India can't blame pakistan for terrorism in a lockdown situation.on the contrary,Pakistani foreign minister given dates and timeline of attacks from India which shows fear and complete confusion.we could have easily removed this terrorism tag but we failed as usual.

Second important point is a timely response.we actually didn't threatened India with a military action.i mean there are methods like reinforcing soldiers on the border and aggressively targeting indian army.we did nothing which shows how clueless we are.world has finally agreed to indian version because we did nothing and most surprisingly,world still blame us for terrorism which is not justified.

This game of abrogation was planned in 2014 and everyone knew about that including our friend america.even balakot happened with the permission of americans.india is not brave enough to take these type of actions without permission.as I said earlier,things are changing fast in Washington and reinforcement of Indian army and newly raised ibgs near border means something surprising.lets agree that we have never thought of attack like balakot but it happened.lets agree that America is on indian side.america and Russia both want pakistan to be ruled by india.change policy of india means changing things around us but we are still stuck in decade old policy.

Gilgit is necessary for india.one primary reason is to get closer to talibans and handle them in indian way.second thing is trade and end of cpec.let me tell you clearly that India can attack pakistan anytime.india have permission and Trump pretends to be on pakistani side.nobody wants progress in Pakistan and best for India and America is to divide pakistan.america wants India to fight with China but India wants expansion and America understands indian desires.

An Indian attack on pakistan is now a possibility.we must prepare.stop this domestic useless affairs and end internal conflicts.bring more sams more radars,make anti ballistic missile defense shield.why we installed stealth radar? Do you have any idea?India doesn't operate stealth jets.i yhink america operates stealth jets.look at the change.forget indian Kashmir for at least 10 years.focus on pakistan.close cooperation with China is necessary.stop useless xinjiang topics.don't poke your nose in somebody else affairs.be courageous.if they attack,respond violently.be aggressive.

 

[Goku]

BJP spokesman Ram Madhav had told Pak HC Abdul Basit about removing article 370 some years ago. I guess your HC didnt take it seriously.
Anyways Pakistan never considered article 370 legitimate. Nothing changes on ground tbh

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Yes...I am an equal proud Odiya, Indian and Hindu the way a Kashmiri Muslim can be a kashmiri, a Muslim and a proud Indian...

Good on you. That's not what they want so the facists in india are forcing this.