The examples you have given above do not apply here. There is a discussion going on here, and people may write things that you dont like of one or several reasons. However, let loose your anger and start using a foul language is against the rules and norms of carrying out a discussion. The forum members are not anyones parents, friends, or brothers, but they are not enemies as well. I carefully went through all the posts and found that you used the foul language first. Using foul language and expecting that other wont retaliate, is not a good idea. Following are quotations from your posts:
Post # 18 You need to get your brains refurbished
Post# 21 Ok how that fu** would it bother anybody
Post # 23 You are an idiot! Let me be very rude this time!
It is only than that SB retaliated and used less than civil language. Even in reply to my post # 55, you started with Lolzz.. qsaark. Come on yaar, how lowly and insignificant you think others and their opinions are? Again in response to MKs post you said people on this thread stopped using their brains.
As per your own statement, an officer with a full service of 35 years or so may have around 2-3 plots. If this is true, how will you explain the following property made by General Musharraf? Musharraf is not a son of a rich father, his father got promoted to the rank of a section officer (grade 17) just before his retirement.
(1) Under construction House in Army Housing Scheme Pt-II, Karachi.
(2) 2000 Sq. Yards in DHA, Karachi.
(3) 2xKanals in Morgah Housing Scheme, Rawalpindi.
(4) 1 and half Kanal in AWT (Army Welfare Trust) Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
(5) 8xMarlas in LCCHS, Lahore.
(6) 2xSquare agriculture land at Bahawalpur.
b. Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad.
c. Daughter's house in DHA (Defence), Karachi.
d. 1xKanal plot in Eastridge Scheme (09).
e. 2xKanals in Sangar Housing Scheme, Gwadar.
I hate to bring my personal stuff into discussion, but only for the sake of making it clear. My Dad retired after 36 year of service as a Director General (grade 21) from a government department. He managed to buy a house (Rs ~12 lakh) and a plot (Rs 3 lakh) only after his retirement from the money he got from his provident fund etc. And my parents are very careful when it comes to spend money. And this is all an honest officer would get at the end of his service even after retiring as a grade 21 officer in civilian sector. He is happy with whatever he has; his biggest investment was in his sons education which surely is now paying him back. I have not mentioned this because I or my parents want more (Alhamdulillah, I managed to save in past 4 years more than my father saved during his entire government service), but just so that you can compare the difference between the Military and Civilian (Government) sector benefits.
Oh Qsaark the same old ... (now you are again going to accuse me of foul language)
foul language is foul language when ever it is used. Should i quote the same language used by you? May it was against a suicide bomber. Anywaz, enough of this debate.
Coming back to the topic. To answer you i would say that the best answer that i can give is that you go ask Musharrf about his estates! or may be you can take him to court and ask him from where did he manage to make such property. He is no more the President so rest assured that ISI is not going to make you disappear
But let me tell you what i know:
Musharraf retired as a General, a minimum of his two houses/plots were from the Army (for which paid ofcourse). You said his father retired as a 17 grade officer, now tell me how many 17 grade officer were in his father's time? How many even Matric pass chaps did you find back in 60s or 70s? How many engineers were there then, how many doctors were there? How many MBAs or M Phils did you find in 60s/70s when you compare then now a days. A 17 grade officer back then in 60s/70s was a hell of a thing as compared to his colleagues.
Do something for me, find someone from you friends whose father retired as a 17 grade officer and find another whose father was not a 17 grade officer, try to compare the number of plots they both have now and you'll get the answer. When most of the people were like: one earner and 9 eaters, cant you see the progress and difference between a family (A) one whose father was a govt servant and the other (family B) whose father was a shop keeper. Family As sons grew up and started earning while the father was still getting his pension-more income to the family and family B, when the father was no more able to sit in the shop, the shop had to be manned by one of the sons, thus yiou have no more income and you have a father whom you have to take guud care of. Compare both the families,, which would be having a greater chance to get a plot? Family A has earners and family B has only 1. So this is the difference between retiring as a 17 grader and not.
Moreover Mush earned for 35 years, and your father earned for 36 years. Not much of a difference, but the difference is there, when Mush was earning your father was studying. A militaryman is earning when he is 18 and his classfellow would start earning by around 22-24 at the earliest if he has to do atleast Masters. Now those 4 years means alot! here it is how. fauji is earning and might be assisting his family but a none fauji is not, not only he is NOT earning but getting more money from his parents for studies. Does it make a huge difference? it does! By the time my classfellows got a job i was having a bike, a tv, a full furnished room, an expensive cell phone, guud amount of cloths and other accessories, was assisting my parents/siblings and fulfilling many minor other requirements from my own pocket without burdening my parents.
On the other hand a few of my classfellows had already taken huge loans for their studies! Most of my fellow friends in the military had already made the items that they would have required after their marriages thus saving burden of the same. This is one.
Second:
Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad: From where did your parents get their house?
Daughter's house in DHA (Defence), Karachi: Where does your daughter lives (if she is married), its probably is her husband's house.
(1) Under construction House in Army Housing Scheme Pt-II, Karachi.
(2) 2000 Sq. Yards in DHA, Karachi.
(3) 2xKanals in Morgah Housing Scheme, Rawalpindi.
(4) 1 and half Kanal in AWT (Army Welfare Trust) Housing Scheme, Peshawar.
(5) 8xMarlas in LCCHS, Lahore.
(6) 2xSquare agriculture land at Bahawalpur.
A few of these are from the Army (paid ofcourse). The rest: Mush was an Ace officer of Pak Army, meaning thereby he had alot of foreign tours to his name, he earned it bro, he worked had, was declared the best and was chosen for these incentives. He has been abroad quite a few times.
But that's only Mush NOT ALL Officer go abroad, and YES but all Generals have been abroad and that is why they today have risen to the Rank of a General. i have been abroad for once and earned a handsome amount and bought something very expensive (it was not a Ferrari).
Generals are the cream of our army. They have been on secondments, courses and given special tasks thus they earn more as compared to a normal Officer who has to retire as a Major. So it has to be like this that you might fond a Major roaming in a Honda City and another Major in Suzuki Mehran; the reason being that the later has been to some UN Mission for one year stayed there away from his family for one year, faced the hardships of Law Enforcement, endangered his life and then in turn earned more as compared to the other Officer.
BUT these are so few that they can be counted on finger tips And dear, the future Generals have to be within these GUUD officers who are more competent more learnered and more hard working! So ultimately they have started earning more since the very start!! Now if someone says that one becomes rich when he becomes a General is plain WRONG!!
Mind it again, these kinda officers are very few! How many generals are there actually? Get the ratio yourself. See the total number of officers in the army and how many make it to the generalship!!
Moreover, Mush was from SSG! right, meaning thereby he was earning a minimum or Rs 5000 to 6000 MORE than a Non SSG Officer! A clear advantage, meaning thereby he was able to save Rs 5000 each month easily as other officers (None SSG) of his rank and service were able to live a guud life even if they were not getting this Rs 5K bonus!!
Multiply 5 with 12 a year and you got your down payment for any plot in Pakistan!!!!!!!!!! and he stayed there for quite a few years bro!
If he could buy a plot from civilian sector as a captain or major who stops him, atleast the Army wont!!
Only this Rs 5K bonus alone can justify his most of the property dear!!!
Let me tell you more: once when i was a lieut i was deployed at the borders, guess what when i returned and check my balance in the bank i had RS 40000, wow!! Now many ranters would say how on earth can a poor fauji save that much of money. Here;s the answer. i myself was surprised, after through analysis i found out this:
i didnt go on leave for 10 moths: meaning there by saving approx 10K to 15K on each trip.
There was no KFC, Mcdonalds, Usmainia, Subway, MM Alam Road,etc etc: thus saving some amount.
There was no cellular coverage:Thus i was able to save my cell ph expense.
i was living in a tent with a lantern to light it up and not in my home: thus no electricity, gas, water bills.
My bike/car was not available to me: No petrol expense.
There were no marriages, functions, birthdays, aftar parties, gatherings: i.e. No need to buy new cloths-lots of saving.
i used to in the uniform most iof the time, or else the few sweat shorts/track suits/shots that i used to work out in: i.e not wearing any fancy cloths and shoes, thus extending there life as they were lying either in my trunk or hangers in my room. Though i have to buy more uniforms.
There was no TV: i.e NO cable bill.
i had to eat only dall or vegetables as the meat was not readily available: thus lowering by food expense.
No Pepsis, no nimko chaska, no no Lays chips, no chewing gums, no pastries from the bakery, no salad as appetizers etc etc: thus lowering my mess bill.
No movies to watch, no gamer Cds, no internet to surf on etc etc: Thus saving more money!!
etc etc...
So i had Rs 57K in my kitty and guess what, when i came back i came to know that my father had applied for a plot in a housing scheme opened by his employer and had got his name in the ballot, and is desperately in need of money and is planning to sell the old bike that he had (not being used as we also had a car). So you know what i gave 50 K from my pocket and got the plot booked which now amounts to ,may be 17 lacs. Now if someone is going tp ask me from where did my
Parents' house in F-7/3, Islamabad came from i am sure going to kick his azz (oops more foul lang)
And guess what from the remaining 7 K i bought a latest DVD player, which when my friends see do ask me hey from where can you afford such a luxury and i am like @#!&...
Now this episode has not happened for once, it keeps on coming!
Lastly: most of the officers live independently i.e their parents are not dependent on them. One of the reasons is that their parents know that if they will ask them to feed them it would be difficult for the both the parties. Let me show you an example. A friend of mine is earning a bit more than me, but he has 6 kids, a sister, parents to feed (though there are his brother who are also earning as guud as he does), but i dont have to do this. i love to support my parents, every Son wants to does!, but it is occasional, and thankfully my father is still earning. i do support them, if not them but my younger brothers as that is what we Pakistanis do, but still i am at ease as compared to that friend of mine. Got it?
Now i am waiting when i manage to go abroad again so that when i return i could buy a few more plots!!!
Yes you are right this thread did become meaningless the day people on this thread stopped using their brians.
