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Pakistan Military Officer Pay Scale/Recruitment

@ Post # 13: A wonderful post i must say, comprehensive and lucid!

Now for the money and land that would allegedly make a soldier in our military rich enough that even Bill Gates would shy off or their next 7 generations for live ion that money!

First, if someone is referring to a General specifically then i must say it speaks of sheer lack of knowledge on their part or may be they have some personal grudge with some general, indeed. Generals, Admirals, Air Marshals, all receive the perks and privileges equally in terms of (allegedly) land, plots, houses etc. So let's not be too specific with the term General, though the word itself mean general, let it not be used so generally!

Second, it seems as if people think that the plots, land etc etc that they claim are given to Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals are free of cost. This again speaks of sheer ignorance and lack of knowledge and i would call it blaming a respectable appointment.

Allow me to clear the dust for once and all, all the plots etc etc that are given to any military officer and the JCOs/NCOs are not given free of cost. They pay for every bit of it just like anyone would pay for some plot in civilian affairs. Yes the differences are as follows:

The Askari Housing Scheme allows all Officer to get 'a' house to their name once in a service. This is not a compulsion but an option with any Officer. 'Unfortunately' he has to pay for that house for the rest of his life. He starts at it as a Lieutenant (when ALL of his class fellows and friends are actually doing pondi outside a girls college, studying or roaming around as vagabonds-meaning simply that they are not earning except for the few who also study and work either they can as they can spare time, like when i was not in the military, people who were studying CS, all were earning after they completed their 2-3 years in university, or they work as a compulsion) i.e when 'respected' civilans are studying the military officers are already earning and paying, thus taking the lead from here, though to be covered up later by his civilian friends when they start earning. Well coming back to the point, so the Lieutenant gets a loan and/or saves money and/or shake his parents and make up the down payment and then from his salary a never ending series of installments begins which will go along till he retires or dies. By the time he retires only half of the cost of that house is paid, so the officer gives a large amount of money out of what he gets when he retires. So that's the story of someone who retires as a Major in the Army. Thanks to the excellent, transparent and efficient planning and quality control displayed by Askari Housing Scheme that and Officers is able to own a house after he has given a life-time to the military.

BTW, who stops, PTCL, WAPDA, MCB, State Bank, Railways, KESC, Atomic Energy Commission etc etc to provide their employees with the same kinds facility!!?? All it takes is a dedicated department and there is nothing to lose? or may be they have one functioning already, but our worthy members deliberately turns a blind eye to this fact as they have only joined the forum to malign some particular institution!

Ok.

Now let me give a word about 'that' House which an officer BUY from the military. The size of the house varies with the rank, what a Major gets is lower in value when comapred to what a Colonels would get, that's one thing.

Two, you actually booked house when you were are Lieutenant, may be in 80s. You would get that house in 2005 (when you retire after 25 years) now guess what that house has grown its price X times as any other house or plot would do in Pakistan depending on its location etc. BTW, i forgot to mention that actually the Army kept your money for 25 years and made alot more money with it and you know how.

Now it is this house that pinches, bothers, give sleepless nights and hard time to many fellow Pakistanis.

To clear off the remaining dust i would like to add that 'this' house is similar to ANY other house that a CIVILIAN would make or buy outside the military! It has the same value (or may be more because of the excellent quality standards that AHS has displayed and the perfect maintenance available there). It soars in price in the same proportion as any other house outside a cantonment does.

Now if that house sells for 7-11 million (maximum limit as of today rather when the plots were at the highest prices a few years back) rupees in the end i.e. after 10-25 years of it construction that Armed Forces' Officer sure do have enough money to feed his generations, isn't it!?:lol:

Now a Question; can anyone name me a person who was doing a government job as a gazetted 17 grade officer (not a rickshaw driver, sweeper, peon, chowkidar etc) or for that matter any other individual who was earning approximately that same amount of salary as an Army officer of his service does, who has not been able to buy atleast ONE house in his 25 years of service in the civilian sector? If he has not then i must say he has poor financial management skills, and has not love for his children! As he has wasted his life for nothing. BTW, i have yet to see a civilian who fits in the above mentioned criteria and has not been able to do what i said above. i have colleagues, friends, class fellows, relatives in banks, private enterprises, local private companies, civil gazetted officer etc etc and i have yet to see if anyone of them has failed to achieve what an Army officer does with the same service and pay. Rather ALL of then had managed to 'make' more than what an Army officer had.

Now to clear of the last spots of dust (if any), lets talk about the Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals. Armed Forces has a policy. AFs gives plots to their men (officer and JCOs/NCOs) on the basis of their achievements and service. Not EVERYONE gets another plot other than the house which we already have discussed. There are many limits.

Service limits, like to qualify for the second plot you may have to complete a minimum of 27 years of service, so if you have retired earlier, you can say bye bye to the plot.

Second, again these plots are NOT FREE OF COST or CHARITY. We pay for it! Now again everyone doesnt get the 'honor' to pay for this second plot. Everything works as if in the civilian sector except that we are more efficient and transparent. When some plots are available, the criteria is announced i.e. Minimum of 29 years of service, not already has more than one house/plot booked, must not have a problem in his documents etc etc. Now all the officers who volunteer for the plot (mind it not all does as they cant afford to pay for the plot) would have to face the BALLOT (as in any civilian plots selling enterprise) Ofcousre we dont do the balloting on weekend nights with all present, it is done at higher levels automatically and is 101% transparent, none has so far raised any concern about it. Normally 1000s of officers. JCOs/NCOs are considered for the balloting and only a few 100s get the plots-the lucky ones. There on they pay for the fringing plot as any other civilian would pay for his plot that he won in balloting. Nw is there a problem with this procedure? If yes, you cant do a damn about it!

To make simple, let's assume Webby wants a plot in Behria Town, Neo wants one in DHA, Asim wants one in Eden City (got the name from ads). So here's what they would do; apply through a form (now if they have to stand in line for days to get the form or had to buy it in black, the Army ofcourse is not to be blamed, say thnx to the transparent and efficient civilian system). After submitting the forms they have to wait for the balloting. Let's assume Asim and Neo has their names in the ballot (no offence Webby) so what they would do is that they'll pay the down payment become the owner of that plot, pay the rest of the installment for the rest of their lives and then sell the same plot X times the price on which they got it. That's exactly what the armed forces personnel do.

Now no one stops me or anyone else in Pakistan to purchase a plot or house and same holds guud for the Armed Forces!

Now a General, Admiral and Air Marshal may have more than one plots by virtue of the amount of service they are putting on. This again is a way to keep the officers working even if they are superseded (not promoted) as the Armed Forces dont want to let a trained soldier retire just because he didnt get promoted!

N.B. How much would a Civilian Officer (executive appointments-not the bechara tangawla or rickshay wala) had earn in terms of pay, plots, cars, bank balance etc etc when compared to an Armed Forces officer (retired after he reached the executive appointments/ranks of the military)??

P.S i was able to apply for the Housing Scheme when i was a Captain (6 years of service) as i couldn't muster Rs 50K for the down fringing payment even after 6 years of my service! Though most of the officers get the membership of housing scheme as early as being Second Lieutenants. The Armed Forces now pay us a handsome amount of pay and allowances! We live a respectable life and are very very very contended about it, though by the end of month nothing much is left, atleast in my pocket!

I would have to disagree with you on many accounts. As enough has been already said in the media in this regards, so I would not get into details. However following are few points for you to ponder.

1.Everyone in Pakistan calls Army officers as property dealers.

2.The role of the army is to fight and not deal in real estate.

3.Do you know that the corps commander of Lahore and Rawalpindi are presidents of the defense housing societies in their respective areas? It seems to me that they have nothing else more important to do than heading those societies.

4.The priorities of the army officers are to spend more time in dealing lucrative real estate deals than to brush up their military training.

5.The land is acquired by force from people for pennies and then is distributed to army officer’s dirt cheap. Then they turn around and sell those same plots to public for a premium price and hence in return making millions.

6.Don’t you talk about NCO’s and JCO’s? Do you know that only 3 out of 35 defense housing societies have been allocated to NCO’s/JCO’s and are located in areas where most of you officers would not even want to live? Now compare the ratio of NCO’s/JCO’s with Officers in the army and then the number of societies. This is an extreme example of injustice and cunning planning.

7.Not to mention all that empty prime land belonging to Pakistani people in most of the cantonment’s now occupied by bungalows owned by army officers.

8.The time is not far away when you all will have to pay the heavy price for your greed and actions. I am sure there is a great resentment among the NCO’s/JCO’s against you officers.
 
Before i start i would announce that you dont a damn about the Army and you have just ranted everything out in one go!

To begin with:
I would have to disagree with you on many accounts.
Be my guest!
As enough has been already said in the media in this regards
:what: When?
1.Everyone in Pakistan calls Army officers as property dealers.
If that everyone is you, then i dont give a damn. BTW, you are just plain wrong!

2.The role of the army is to fight and not deal in real estate.
Yeah right!
They dont even deserved to be paid! What creatures are our armed forces..ooops sorry you were talking specific to the Army, how come? Are you one of them who has been stampeded by some Army dude at some occasion?

3.Do you know that the corps commander of Lahore and Rawalpindi are presidents of the defense housing societies in their respective areas? It seems to me that they have nothing else more important to do than heading those societies.
i have already talked on this issue at large, please spare sometime and make use of the search function to enlighten yourself!

4.The priorities of the army officers are to spend more time in dealing lucrative real estate deals than to brush up their military training.
Ahan, i never knew that. Which Army are you talking about BTW?

5.The land is acquired by force from people for pennies and then is distributed to army officer’s dirt cheap. Then they turn around and sell those same plots to public for a premium price and hence in return making millions.
i can just :rofl:
You need to get your brains refurbished.

6.Don’t you talk about NCO’s and JCO’s? Do you know that only 3 out of 35 defense housing societies have been allocated to NCO’s/JCO’s and are located in areas where most of you officers would not even want to live? Now compare the ratio of NCO’s/JCO’s with Officers in the army and then the number of societies. This is an extreme example of injustice and cunning planning.
As i have mentioned in the start that you know balls about the Army. For you kind info NO NCO/JCOs were given plots excpet the SMs and few others, it was not a policy, UNTIL a few weeks back when General Kiyani announced that from now JCOs/NCOs would also be offered plots (mind it the word is plots, not housing societies). Only those would be eligible who would complete a certain amount of service and there are a few other points that need to be taken care of, which equally holds guud for Officers also, like, shouldn't be a Court Martial case, discharged on character failure, cheated or hiding of facts etc etc. So wake up sniff some coffee and pray for the 26 slain soldiers in that heli crash rather then wasting your energies here!

7.Not to mention all that empty prime land belonging to Pakistani people in most of the cantonment’s now occupied by bungalows owned by army officers.
NOW!!
i though most of the cantts were there before partition and the remaining were made early after the independence, only a very few are being constricted currently. And banglows:lol:, i wish you got to live in that banglow for ever. Ameen!

8.The time is not far away when you all will have to pay the heavy price for your greed and actions. I am sure there is a great resentment among the NCO’s/JCO’s against you officers.
Oooppss!

Lolzz... you forgot dude that our Army is already 62 years old, with many units that have a history in centuries. Let's see when the 'resentment' takes over the better of them.

-------

A futile attempt of pitching the men against their officers. The men who are envied in the entire world!!!

Post reported!!
 
Before i start i would announce that you dont a damn about the Army and you have just ranted everything out in one go!

To begin with:

Be my guest!

:what: When?

If that everyone is you, then i dont give a damn. BTW, you are just plain wrong!


Yeah right!
They dont even deserved to be paid! What creatures are our armed forces..ooops sorry you were talking specific to the Army, how come? Are you one of them who has been stampeded by some Army dude at some occasion?


i have already talked on this issue at large, please spare sometime and make use of the search function to enlighten yourself!


Ahan, i never knew that. Which Army are you talking about BTW?


i can just :rofl:
You need to get your brains refurbished.


As i have mentioned in the start that you know balls about the Army. For you kind info NO NCO/JCOs were given plots excpet the SMs and few others, it was not a policy, UNTIL a few weeks back when General Kiyani announced that from now JCOs/NCOs would also be offered plots (mind it the word is plots, not housing societies). Only those would be eligible who would complete a certain amount of service and there are a few other points that need to be taken care of, which equally holds guud for Officers also, like, shouldn't be a Court Martial case, discharged on character failure, cheated or hiding of facts etc etc. So wake up sniff some coffee and pray for the 26 slain soldiers in that heli crash rather then wasting your energies here!


NOW!!
i though most of the cantts were there before partition and the remaining were made early after the independence, only a very few are being constricted currently. And banglows:lol:, i wish you got to live in that banglow for ever. Ameen!


Oooppss!

Lolzz... you forgot dude that our Army is already 62 years old, with many units that have a history in centuries. Let's see when the 'resentment' takes over the better of them.

-------

A futile attempt of pitching the men against their officers. The men who are envied in the entire world!!!

Post reported!!

I know truth is bitter but Sir you need to wake up and come into real life. Following is one of the examples of the articles published in the media for your reading pleasure ( I can search the remainig articles too if you want):

Dawn newspaper

Whose land is it, anyway?


By Irfan Husain

An old friend was recently invited to a serving general's official residence for a small dinner party, and came away hugely impressed by the acres of immaculate lawns, the discreet lighting, the tasteful furnishings and the overall level of luxury.

And it was all in good taste, he added. Nothing vulgar or ostentatious. The food and refreshments were of the highest quality, and the army staff who served the small gathering had apparently been trained at a five-star hotel. My friend who is an industrialist and lives in a fairly large, comfortable house, was so bowled over that he declared that his home was fit only to be the servants' quarters to the general's residence. I, for one, am glad my taxes are being put to good use.

Recently, the web-based journal, the South Asian Tribune, ran a long list of serving and retired generals who had been allotted large tracts of agricultural land. This is nothing new: army officers have been awarded land for distinguished service for decades. Indeed, when General Musharraf staged his coup three years ago, he made his assets public. The portfolio was so impressive that those who have an idea about property prices were of the opinion that the general was worth nothing less than a hundred million rupees.

Of course, there is no suggestion of impropriety here: all these transactions are within the rules. Perhaps the biggest boondoggle of all is the phenomenon of Defence Housing Societies that have mushroomed in virtually every urban centre. During British rule, huge swathes of land were allocated to the army for strictly military purposes. Mostly, this was unproductive land far from city centres. But with the inexorable growth of our cities, this land became prime property, and under Ayub Khan, much of it was handed over by GHQ to the Defence Housing Authority that proceeded to parcel it off to serving and retired military personnel for residential purposes at throw-away prices.

In no time at all, these plots were flogged to civilians at several times their purchase price and palatial houses have been built on them over the years. These localities are now the most prestigious housing colonies in the country. In India, by contrast, no such conversion has taken place. Indeed, I believe civilians cannot reside permanently in military cantonments. In Pakistan, the military runs the largest real estate operation in the country.For years, large chunks of borderland have been handed over to retired army officers on the bizarre pretext that they will be able to train their agricultural workers, and thus form a barrier against invading Indian forces. The thought of poor peasants armed with scythes facing Indian tanks would be hilarious if one were to ignore the underlying purpose of the exercise.
 
Sonicboom, you did not post the full column. It continues as follows:

The current standoff in Okara between peasants and the Rangers underlines the gulf between the military's needs and popular sentiment. Thousands of farmers whose forefathers have been tilling this land in the vicinity of the Military Dairy Farms for a century are being forced to forfeit tenancy rights and sign short-term contracts that could easily result in their eviction if they are unable to fulfil the terms of the contracts a couple of years down the road. Rangers have virtually surrounded the area, and have even prevented the visit of the wife of a European ambassador and a Newsweek reporter from talking to the besieged peasants.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of this dispute, I would like to know why the army is in the business of running a dairy farm at all. I know the Military Dairy Farms were inherited from the British army at independence. But since then, much progress has been made and there are a number of agri-businesses that process and sell milk and other dairy products all over the country. I know it is very nice for our military officers and their families to get fresh milk, but if packaged milk is good enough for the rest of us, why can't the military drink it? The whole concept of the military running dairy farms is an anachronism that needs to be ended.

The perks don't end here: military personnel are entitled to a 50 per cent discount on air and rail fares as well as cinema tickets. Their children have a quota at most public universities, and serving and retired officers are routinely inducted into civilian jobs. This was institutionalized by Zia who had a percentage fixed for military personnel in all the civil service groups.

All this gives the military as a class a huge incentive to stay in power, either directly or indirectly. The first instinct of any class is to protect its power and privileges, and in this the army is no exception. The corollary to wielding power is that the political parties must remain weak and divided so that they cannot challenge the supremacy of the military because more than ever before, the two are rival contenders for political power. From the army's point of view, the logic of this situation dictates that if a political party is elected to office, it must be kept off-balance, and every attempt must be made to discredit it.

So far, politicians have blithely cooperated through their incompetence and greed. Squabbling among themselves, they have given the military every opportunity to paint them as the villains. For well over a decade, Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto have been at daggers drawn, seeking to use the army against each other. Until recently, they simply did not understand that they were strengthening the military class by their antics.

But General Musharraf's insistence on sidelining both leaders and decimating their parties has had the ironic effect of bringing them together on the same platform. For the first time, they have seen that the only way to make the military subservient to the political system is to join hands. Granted they were almost forced to this conclusion, but Musharraf's wheeling and dealing may well have the opposite impact from the one he desires.

All indications are that short of massive poll rigging, the PPP and Nawaz Sharif's section of the PML will command a sizable majority in the National Assembly. This will be specially true after the two parties have completed their on-going electoral adjustments. Whether they use this majority to clip the army's wings, or as leverage in a power game remains to be seen. But the currently adverse situation can be transformed into a unique opportunity by the two mainstream parties to finally reassert the supremacy of civil society. Whether they have the wisdom and the maturity to do so remains to be seen.

Source: DAWN - Irfan Hussain; 14 September, 2002
 
Although i opted or ignoring the two latest replies as this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, and i never wanted to turn the thread into another Xeric Vs Qsaark thread, but then i saw the silver lining:

(Again i emphasize, that i know the Army has stepped on many's tails to include members on PDF, writers, govt officials, journalists etc etc, but i emphasize that the so called perk and privileges that the civilians claims holds guud for all the THREE branches of military and not only Army, just a thought!)

Training Waiter in 5 star hotel!
Waiters in Army are authorized at the rate of approx 7.5 % i.e. if there are 50 officer dinning at a mess it would only have 3-4 waiters. What a luxery!

Anywaz, training the waiters in 5 star hotel, Ok how that fu** would it bother anybody. i have to be very deliberate this time. Giving out points just for the sake of it!!?? They waiters may be trained form White House what the hell is wrong with it unless the holy tax-payers dont have to spend money on them!!?? It seems like the our writers have acquired a degree in cheap journalism and are making full use of it. Tomorrow they may say hey look they wear camo, why do they wear camo, how can they wear camo, whay cant they just wear what we wear! And my answer would be ******.

Well the waiters, i have always wished that i have my unit cooks (which are again on the same scale as of waiters) and waiters trained from a better place. As out a 100 cooks/waiters you only find maximum 1 already suitably trained,. thnx to the overall working capability of Pakistani Nation.

Now here is what we very rarely do. i said VERY RARELY because we cant spare the cooks or waiters as they are a;ready available in small numbers. When we feel that we have had enough of this Mr Cooks food and it's becoming unbearable we take a bold step and decide that he shuld be sent to kaka manna truck hotel somewhere near to the cantt to get the tarining. Now here is ho it works. Kaka manna hotel owner is happy as he gets a cook free of cost, we are happy as our cook would be well trained, nd the tax payers are hapy or may be not as they are not spending a dime extra on this!! Now yes if a unit happens to be stationed at a big station like Multan, Karachi, Lahore etc, they may try to send the waiter of cook to some guud hotel (it may be a 5 star). The formula is the same. They happy, we happy and the tax-payers burning as usual!!:) It's a win win for everyone execpt that we have to face the blunt that if we already have 3 wiater/cooks on the posted strength and we send one of them out for training and one out of thise two has to go on leave and the remainder (one) has to cook, which ofocurse we being guud leaders understand his 'hardship' and do request some neighboring military setup to share the burden.

Now here is when i said VERY RARE; the service that i am putting on (in double figures atleast) i have seen on one occasion that a cook of ours was sent to Usmania and once i HEARD that some neighboring unit is planning to send its waiter to Marriott, though i am not sure if he managed to get there.

Now if this bother an worthy member and the writer of the article he can go to hell from my side at his own expanse!

50% Off on tickets

This is the cheapest shot that anyone can take on the military!

Let me ask th writer how many times in a year does he has to travel to his home on leave as he has to spend most of his time away from his family? The military keep us away from our families and instead of providing free of cost transportation they only give us 50% concession, how does that sounds?! duh!

BTW, the concession is only on the FARE, not on the taxes, meaning thereby if a civilian can get a ticket from lahore to karachi on Air Blue for Rs 4000/- (night coach which is cheaper) if he purchase it a minimum of 2-3 days before the actual date as they give 90% off on the fare (as a publicity move) an Army personnel has to pay Rs 3640/ to purchase the same ticket. Rs 360/- in concession for serving the nation away from your beloved one, Sir i dont need it!!!! BTW, even if a civilian purchases the sme ticket on full rate i.e if he has an emergency and he has to buy that ticket for instance a few hours before the departure it would cost him Rs 6000/-. If God forbidden i had an emergency i'll not be having time for getting the concession voucher and rather i would get the tickt on full rate as there is a quota for military and it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a ticket on military voucher even if you try one day prior the date of departure. So much for the fringing concession!! And it me not you who sits on mountains and go on leave to see my wife and kids and parents after may be 10 months, though most of the time militarymen go on leave before 3 months!


Cinema concession

Another cheap shot, or i must say f!lthy thinking! How much does a cinema ticket cost dude!? BTW, how many fauji actually go to cinema now a days? i have been to one in my lifetime! This hold guud for troops, as it was a tradition that if a body of troops did soem well the CO used to allow them to go for a movie (Sultan Rahi action films) in the evening and thos poor chaps used to take it as a great incentive!

The one time that i went to the cenima was n Islamabad, i dont remeber the name though it was like 10-12 years back. When i and my coursemate were purchsing the tickets the counter wala asked us sir you from the military e said replied with a yes as our hair cut showed him and he offered us that we had a discount for military people, and i asked in sarcasm, how much is the discount actually and the reply ws like rs 20 or may be 30 WTF! No thnx sir, said i, got the ticket in full. That was the first and last time i went to a ceneima.
 
xeric

Refer to Pakistani media. Articles over articles have been written on this issue. All you have to do to read.


If that everyone is you, then i dont give a damn. BTW, you are just plain wrong!

Tauba! Tauba! I would not dare to call chosen people like that. For your kind information, I found it from the media and the Pakistani people. So go and figure?

Read this from The News dated April 4, 2009 from an indian officer:

'A Pakistani soldier that I met in Iraq in 2004, went on to say, that Pakistan army officers were more into real estate, defence housing colonies and the like.'

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=172290

Yeah right!
They dont even deserved to be paid! What creatures are our armed forces..ooops sorry you were talking specific to the Army, how come? Are you one of them who has been stampeded by some Army dude at some occasion?

The Pak Army officers are handsomely paid plus all the perks as compared to any other Pakistani with the same or more qualification. Tell me how a Pakistani army captain can live in bungalow of 2 kanal worth more than 2 crore rupees, while on the other hand a Pakistani professor (more in Rank and salary than a captain) is looking for shelters?


Ahan, i never knew that. Which Army are you talking about BTW?

The Pakistan Army


i can just
You need to get your brains refurbished.

You just saw what Irfan Hussain said in his artcile and there are many more examples. So it's time for you to get your bonehead in order.

As i have mentioned in the start that you know balls about the Army. For you kind info NO NCO/JCOs were given plots excpet the SMs and few others, it was not a policy,

And who made that policy? "Andahon mein kana raja"


Oooppss!

Lolzz... you forgot dude that our Army is already 62 years old, with many units that have a history in centuries. Let's see when the 'resentment' takes over the better of them.

No Sir, I did not. Read more from that indian army officer:

"A Pakistani soldier that I met in Iraq in 2004 lamented the fact that the Pakistani soldier in Kargil had been badly let down firstly by Nawaz Sharif and then by the Pakistani officers' cadre. Pakistani soldiers led by Indian officers, he believed, would be the most fearsome combination possible."

Also if you really want to know more, then read the surveys submitted by the returning NCO's/JCO's POW's of 1971 war. Almost all of them said that the Indian Army Officers were better than the Pakistani Army officers.


And lastly I love Pakistan Army except the property dealers.
 
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The Pak Army officers are handsomely paid plus all the perks as compared to any other Pakistani with the same or more qualification. Tell me how a Pakistani army captain can live in bungalow of 2 kanal worth more than 2 crore rupees, while on the other hand a Pakistani professor (more in Rank and salary than a captain) is looking for shelters?
Wow!
2 Kanal?
You are an idiot! Let me be very rude this time!

You just saw what Irfan Hussain said in his artcile and there are many more examples. So it's time for you to get your bonehead in order.



And who made that policy? "Andahon mein kana raja"




No Sir, I did not. Read more from that indian army officer:

"A Pakistani soldier that I met in Iraq in 2004 lamented the fact that the Pakistani soldier in Kargil had been badly let down firstly by Nawaz Sharif and then by the Pakistani officers' cadre. Pakistani soldiers led by Indian officers, he believed, would be the most fearsome combination possible."

Also if you really want to know more, then read the surveys submitted by the returning NCO's/JCO's POW's of 1971 war. Almost all of them said that the Indian Army Officers were better than the Pakistani Army officers.


And lastly I love Pakistan Army except the property dealers.

i have replied on this letter at length and detail on this forum at its own thread, make use of the search function and read it yourself. As i dont was to waste my energies again in vain.

As for a starter, Pakistan Army has never been to Iraq, and this speaks high of your ignorance!
 
Wow!
2 Kanal?
You are an idiot! Let me be very rude this time!

Now that shows frustration on your part. You looser! Politeness is contagious. And by the way I am not a NCO or JCO, whom you are used to treat like animals, that you can push me around. I will put you in your place. Mind it next time.
 
Now that shows frustration on your part. You looser! Politeness is contagious. And by the way I am not a NCO or JCO, whom you are used to treat like animals, that you can push me around. I will put you in your place. Mind it next time.

Hey idiot we dont treat our men like animals, they are the most precious commodity that we have!!
 
Hey idiot we dont treat our men like animals, they are the most precious commodity that we have!!
Well I myself have heard from a number of Jawans that they were not treated well by their officers. How much of its was true and how much was exaggeration, I don’t know. I used to spend my vacation at my Uncle's place (who retired as a Brigadier), and I saw him at least treating his batman quite well. But than his batman was sort of our (mine and my cousin's) buddy. I guess it is little different when someone is with you for such a long period of time. My Dad had a batman who was with him from 1972 (I was born in 1973) till 1999 (when my father finally got posted in Lahore). At that time Altaf (that was his name) had grown old and he couldn’t accompany my Dad for a number of reasons. We always used to call him Altaf Chacha and he indeed was/is considered a family member rather than a batman.
 
Pakistani soldiers led by Indian officers, he believed, would be the most fearsome combination possible."
This alleged interaction between a Pakistani soldier in Iraq and an Indian keeps coming up, and it is amazing that people buy into this BS.

A 'Pakistani soldier led by Indian officers' - Akhand Bharat anyone?

How foolish do you have to be to buy this crap propaganda.
 
Now that shows frustration on your part. You looser! Politeness is contagious. And by the way I am not a NCO or JCO, whom you are used to treat like animals, that you can push me around. I will put you in your place. Mind it next time.

Actually you have been making derogatory generalizations all along, both on this thread and the PAF leadership one, about either officers in the PA or pilots in the PAF.

You even insulted a decorated war hero from the PAF, and his family, by implying that the only reason his relatives had achieved various positions in the Military was because of connections, and you did so without offering a shred of evidence.

Xeric countered most of Irfan Hussein's points in his article, which were primarily based on bad anecdotal evidence and speculative arguments, and instead you chose to engage in more derogatory generalizations.

You sir are not on this forum to participate in discourse, but to merely pursue an agenda against the Pakistani military by making spurious arguments. Your derogatory generalizations are getting tiresome, especially in light of the sacrifices being rendered by both officers and jawans of the PA against the Taliban.

Please take your agenda elsewhere.

Thanks.
 
Hey idiot we dont treat our men like animals, they are the most precious commodity that we have!!

You bastard, Idiot tera **** who brought you in this world and that's what PMA taught you, shame on you, that's how you treat your soldiers too, no wonder why your ***** were kicked by indian army, chullu bher pani mein doob maru
 
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Sonicboom after getting his *** kicked by Army and PAakdef Mods is back with new ID :pdf:
 
Actually you have been making derogatory generalizations all along, both on this thread and the PAF leadership one, about either officers in the PA or pilots in the PAF.

You even insulted a decorated war hero from the PAF, and his family, by implying that the only reason his relatives had achieved various positions in the Military was because of connections, and you did so without offering a shred of evidence.

Xeric countered most of Irfan Hussein's points in his article, which were primarily based on bad anecdotal evidence and speculative arguments, and instead you chose to engage in more derogatory generalizations.

You sir are not on this forum to participate in discourse, but to merely pursue an agenda against the Pakistani military by making spurious arguments. Your derogatory generalizations are getting tiresome, especially in light of the sacrifices being rendered by both officers and jawans of the PA against the Taliban.

Please take your agenda elsewhere.

Thanks.

First of all you seem to be the owner of this forum and you are serving the interest of some of the ex army and air force officers to keep your forum in business.

Secondly I did not make any derogatory statements but told the absolute truth and truth is always bitter. As a matter of fact, most of your heroes are frustrated, abrasive and rude.

Third I did not insult him and once again told the truth. Everyone knows what goes in ISSB and how the selection process favors sons/ daughters and relatives of officers.

You can ban me as many times as you wish. Let's see who wins here.
 
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