Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M or the Russian T-90S tank

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

It is rumored that because of the higher price, Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M tank or the Russian T-90S tank.

VT-4 tank exported to Thailand

As the Chinese-made VT-4 adopts internationally advanced technology and equipment, the price is relatively high. It is believed that Pakistan will not purchase the Chinese VT-4, but choose the cheaper U-T-84M tank and the Russian T-90S tank. Due to the Ukrainian civil war, the delivery capacity of the Ukrainian tank factory is questionable, so Pakistan may eventually choose the cheaper Russian T-90S tank.

The VT-4 tank hoisted to land after arriving at the port of Thailand

VT-4 tank road transport

VT-4 tank arriving at the Thai military destination

VT-4 tank internal picture


VT-4 tanks and Pakistani Khalid tanks have many shared parts. According to common sense, Pakistan should choose VT-4 tanks. However, considering the current financial situation in Pakistan, it is understandable to choose cheap tanks.

 

[graphican]

It is rumored that because of the higher price, Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M tank or the Russian T-90S tank.

VT-4 tank exported to Thailand

As the Chinese-made VT-4 adopts internationally advanced technology and equipment, the price is relatively high. It is believed that Pakistan will not purchase the Chinese VT-4, but choose the cheaper U-T-84M tank and the Russian T-90S tank. Due to the Ukrainian civil war, the delivery capacity of the Ukrainian tank factory is questionable, so Pakistan may eventually choose the cheaper Russian T-90S tank.

The VT-4 tank hoisted to land after arriving at the port of Thailand

VT-4 tank road transport

VT-4 tank arriving at the Thai military destination

VT-4 tank internal picture


VT-4 tanks and Pakistani Khalid tanks have many shared parts. According to common sense, Pakistan should choose VT-4 tanks. However, considering the current financial situation in Pakistan, it is understandable to choose cheap tanks.

Why is price a concern for China here? Is making money the only National goal left? Pakistan is freaking giving you its land and length of resources so our friend China be strategically safe. Can china not reduce the price of a defence product Pakistan needs and when it knows Pakistan is short of cash?

Pakistan is a friend when China benefits and not so much when money comes in the way?

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Why is price a concern for China here? Is making money the only National goal left? Pakistan is freaking giving you your land and length of resources so our friend China be safe. Can china not reduce the price of a defence equipment Pakistan needs and when it knows Pakistan is short of cash?

Pakistan is a friend when China benefits and not so much when money comes in the way?

Aid and doing business are two different things. China can give Pakistan free things, but the cost of VT-4 tanks is very high. How to reduce prices?
You go to buy a Huawei mobile phone. The price of Huawei mobile phone is 500 US dollars. If you spend 300 US dollars, will Huawei sell it to you?
Don't forget, the United States is stationed in Japan, and Japan has to pay billions of dollars a year to the United States!
The United States is stationed in South Korea, and South Korea has to pay hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the United States!

Pakistan definitely wants nuclear submarines. Can China also give Pakistani nuclear submarines free of charge? ?
Have you seen the United States free and unconditional delivery of things to other countries?

In the second Indian-Pakistan war, Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai sent the PLA in service tanks directly from PLA to Pakistan Army. Why don't you mention it?

No money, how to conduct research and development(RD) and how to master the most advanced technology?

Why is price a concern for China here? Is making money the only National goal left? Pakistan is freaking giving you its land and length of resources so our friend China be strategically safe. Can china not reduce the price of a defence product Pakistan needs and when it knows Pakistan is short of cash?

Pakistan is a friend when China benefits and not so much when money comes in the way?

So Pakistan wants the best tanks and do not want to pay too much?！
Is this your logic!?

The seller of the VT4 tank is China North Industries Corporation, not the Chinese government, please keep this in mind.

 

[pzfz]

False premise. VT4 is cheaper than the other tanks. And since it does share so many components and a lineage with the Al-Khalid, why would Pak go for another version when it can just update the Al-Khalid?

Pak will likely go for neither. Not only does it not need another tank which does not provide generational capability, it has other defense priorities.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

The seller of the VT4 tank is China North Industries Corporation, not the Chinese government, please keep this in mind.

False premise. VT4 is cheaper than the other tanks. And since it does share so many components and a lineage with the Al-Khalid, why would Pak go for another version when it can just update the Al-Khalid?

Pak will likely go for neither. Not only does it not need another tank which does not provide generational capability, it has other defense priorities.

1）You are wrong, the VT-4 main battle tank produced in China is about 40% higher than the T-84M produced in Ukraine.
2）Why is Pakistan testing Chinese VT-4 tanks?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Pakistan should stop buying tanks and trucks from foreign countries. these things can be easily made in Pakistan initially with foreign help. We need to save foreign exchange.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

The VT-4 is much more expensive than the T-84M and T-90S. The VT-4 is priced at $5.8 million, while the T-90S that Vietnam ordered from Russia last year was priced at $2.5 million.T-90s is an simple update of russian old T-90 that is why it is so cheap.

Pakistan should stop buying tanks and trucks from foreign countries. these things can be easily made in Pakistan initially with foreign help. We need to save foreign exchange.

Pakistani brothers, what you said makes sense, but you need to consider the following factors:
1) China and Pakistan's common enemy India is upgrading its army equipment on a large scale, including tanks. If we do not upgrade, China and Pakistan will suffer in the war. Obviously, this is a situation that China and Pakistan are not willing to see;
2) Regarding foreign exchange reserves, more consideration should be given to how to earn foreign exchange instead of saving foreign exchange. Pakistan has abundant cotton resources and abundant human resources. Why can't we vigorously develop the textile industry? ? If we earn $100 billion in foreign exchange a year, why should we save foreign exchange?
3) China has never thought of restricting the development of Pakistan. China will not restrict Pakistan from developing higher-end weapons (including nuclear weapons) because the stronger Pakistan is, the stronger the China-Pakistan alliance will be. Limiting allies is something that the United States will do.
4）As a brother of Pakistan, we Chinese absolutely do not want to dictate the Pakistani brothers, but please Pakistani brothers think about this: If you want to strengthen Pakistan, the most important thing is to make Pakistan’s economy more stronger,after all when we become richer, we are more capable to buy weapons or make weapons by ourselves, and even nuclear weapons also need money to maintain and upgrade.
5）Plus if we sell VT-4 3 millions usd each to Pakistan，how we gonna argue the price as 5.8 millions with other countries?

VT-4 priced at $5.8 million, while the T-90S priced at $2.5 million.
T-90s is an simple update of russian old T-90 that is why it is so cheap.
T-84M of ukrain is around 3.5 millions to 4 .2 millions.

 

[pzfz]

1）You are wrong, the VT-4 main battle tank produced in China is about 40% higher than the T-84M produced in Ukraine.
2）Why is Pakistan testing Chinese VT-4 tanks?

1) VT4 is cheaper. Just admit it.

2) Pak also tested the Ukrainian tank. What's your point?

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

I am very opposed to not making money to sell things. If there is no profit to make or even sell at a loss, this kind of transaction can't last forever.

The seller has no money to develop better and more advanced products, so Americans are smart. Their things are more expensive but better, with more profits,they have more development potential because they have the money to develop more advanced products.

In order to develop the kirin series chips (K3V2, Kirin 910, Kirin920, Kirin 925, Kirin 950, Kirin 960 Kirin 970), Huawei spent already 50 billion USD to get the world's leading kirin 980.

1) VT4 is cheaper. Just admit it.

2) Pak also tested the Ukrainian tank. What's your point?

If you do not want to buy things, why you test them ,for fun only?
VT-4 priced at 5.8 millions usd,thanks for your time!

 

[Kompromat]

VT-4 broke down during tests, Oplot also broke down during tests.

Pakistan may not buy a new Tank if the potential options can't negotiate the rugged terrain in Punjab and the deserts in Sindh.

We may choose to upgrade Al-Khalid to VT-4 or Oplot standard with a new turret, optics, powerpack etc.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

The VT-4 is much more expensive than the T-84M and T-90S. The VT-4 is priced at $5.8 million, while the T-90S that Vietnam ordered from Russia last year was priced at $2.5 million.T-90s is an simple update of russian old T-90 that is why it is so cheap.



Pakistani brothers, what you said makes sense, but you need to consider the following factors:
1) China and Pakistan's common enemy India is upgrading its army equipment on a large scale, including tanks. If we do not upgrade, China and Pakistan will suffer in the war. Obviously, this is a situation that China and Pakistan are not willing to see;
2) Regarding foreign exchange reserves, more consideration should be given to how to earn foreign exchange instead of saving foreign exchange. Pakistan has abundant cotton resources and abundant human resources. Why can't we vigorously develop the textile industry? ? If we earn $100 billion in foreign exchange a year, why should we save foreign exchange?
3) China has never thought of restricting the development of Pakistan. China will not restrict Pakistan from developing higher-end weapons (including nuclear weapons) because the stronger Pakistan is, the stronger the China-Pakistan alliance will be. Limiting allies is something that the United States will do.
4）As a brother of Pakistan, we Chinese absolutely do not want to dictate the Pakistani brothers, but please Pakistani brothers think about this: If you want to strengthen Pakistan, the most important thing is to make Pakistan’s economy more stronger,after all when we become richer, we are more capable to buy weapons or make weapons by ourselves, and even nuclear weapons also need money to maintain and upgrade.

VT-4 priced at $5.8 million, while the T-90S priced at $2.5 million.
T-90s is an simple update of russian old T-90 that is why it is so cheap.
T-84M of ukrain is around 3.5 millions to 4 .2 millions.

$5.8 million are you serious bro

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

VT-4 broke down during tests, Oplot also broke down during tests.

Pakistan may not buy a new Tank if the potential options can't negotiate the rugged terrain in Punjab and the deserts in Sindh.

We may choose to upgrade Al-Khalid to VT-4 or Oplot standard with a new turret, optics, powerpack etc.

Well,Dozens of VT-4 main tanks have been operating smoothly in the swamps and jungles of Thailand.

$5.8 million are you serious bro

Serious bro,as i said,T90s simply upgraded from Russia old stocked T90 is much cheaper :2.9 millions,so T90s should be the better choice!
A $5.9 million VT-4 main battle tank cannot meet everyone's requirements.
However, I believe that Thailand has purchased high-profile version of the VT-4 tank. If a low-profile version of the VT-4 tank is purchased, the price may be reduced to $4.8 million.

The VT-4 tank is really a very advanced tank.Don't put China's most advanced export tank VT-4 and China's 59 tanks and 69 tanks together. They are not in one world at all.

The VT-4 uses the most advanced technology and equipments of the most advanced tank PLA 99A main battle tank of China.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

I would personally go with t99a2

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

PLA 99A main battle tank

I would personally go with t99a2

That is PLA most advanced tanks,few produced.Nice point though!
1) On the one hand, due to capacity problems, China has only a few dozen 99A2.
2) According to Chinese laws, the most advanced equipment is prohibited from exporting before the next generation created.
Therefore, within 5 to 10 years, 99A and 99A2 are not allowed to be exported.

 

[Cybernetics]

Why is price a concern for China here? Is making money the only National goal left? Pakistan is freaking giving you its land and length of resources so our friend China be strategically safe. Can china not reduce the price of a defence product Pakistan needs and when it knows Pakistan is short of cash?

Pakistan is a friend when China benefits and not so much when money comes in the way?

Norinco the company has to make back its costs, pay for workers, overhead, down stream suppliers, R&D, etc. Maybe they need to work on cutting costs but they need to offer a price to test the market. Thailand ordered 28 VT-4 for $150 million and another 10 for $58 million. They have limited production capacity for this model so they will likely take the highest bidder to quickly cover costs and build up capacity. In the situation that they cannot find a customer after they have space in their booking, then they might lower prices or make it attractive through other means. If Norinco doesn't make a profit or at least their costs, their suppliers and workers won't give them components and work, if unprofitably is sustained the company goes under. No money means no activity. They don't go into a deal or demonstration thinking about political considerations between Pakistan and China (maybe it is better if they do as a sales strategy?), it is a publicly listed company. Currently Norinco is using export markets to improve its product line, much work is needed to be done.

On the other hand if Pakistan thinks a particular defense product from China is desirable but pricing is out of range then maybe an arrangement can be made with the government of China to subsidize costs. There is a process to go about this.

As for bases, just putting it in context, the Americans are subsidized by their allies for overseas basing. Japan pays $2 billion, South Korea pays $800 million, and NATO pays $2.5 billion every year to the US for covering basing costs.

"The United States’ European allies, Burns said, "pay us $2.5 billion a year to keep our forces there."
https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...opean-allies-pay-us-25-billion-yearly-keep-t/

"Japan has agreed to pay as much as $12 billion to build a new U.S. base on Okinawa for thousands of Marines now at the U.S. installation in the town of Futenma. "

"South Korea also is funding most of a $10.8-billion construction project that will allow U.S. troops to move from bases near Seoul and the Demilitarized Zone along the border with North Korea to new installations farther south."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-allies-20160930-snap-story.html

Kuwait, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia also pay the majority of American basing costs. The Gulf war was largely paid by the Arab Gulf nations.

"The report, released at a central bankers' meeting in the United Arab Emirates, said that in addition, the governments of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the gulf emirates made $84 billion in direct payments to the United States, Britain and France for military expenses. Officials said payments to Egypt and Syria, who were also members of the coalition opposing Iraq, may have totaled $3 billion to $5 billion.

Direct logistical support for the 600,000 American and allied troops in Saudi Arabia between August 1990 and March 1991, plus the rush to build military airstrips and camps, cost another $51 billion, which was paid largely by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait."
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/08/world/gulf-war-s-cost-to-arabs-estimated-at-620-billion.html

That is PLA most advanced tanks,few produced.Nice point though!
1) On the one hand, due to capacity problems, China has only a few dozen 99A2.
2) According to Chinese laws, the most advanced equipment is prohibited from exporting before the next generation created.
Therefore, within 5 to 10 years, 99A and 99A2 are not allowed to be exported.

US and Russia also have these type of restrictions to prevent leaking of sensitive information. Some exports products have purposely limited capabilities. American export M1 Abrams tanks lack depleted uranium armor. It would be nice if China could one day export Type 99A series to Pakistan. Likely by then China would be equipping 4th generation tanks.