Pakistan - Khorasanian (Tajik) relationship

[pak-marine]

in our area our malaks and khans organized lashkars against talibans and confronted them. And now talibans are target killing them. In waziristan all tribal elders are killed by talibans, so no tribal organization and no force to resist talibans. The framework of our society is very complex. Army, agencies had messed with our culture and have introduced germs of extremism into afghanistan and pakhtunkhwa. We were never talibans and religous extremist before that. Note that in tabligh jamat, 80 % of tablighis are pashtuns and this tabligh was promoted during zia ul haq times and pashtuns were drawn to it during that time. Our grandfathers say that during british times our society was at 180 degree from currunt times. Upto 1947 we were voting for secular khudai khidmatgar, think about it.

the talibani snakes are bitting all who fed them milk .. i remember at one point BB in 90's claimed Taliban meray bachay hain .. the same snakes killed her eventually , yeh bastards kisi kay bhi nahi except apnay funders kay .. PA supported them but now are fighting a war from last few years , i am sure the mallicks and sardars have at once sympathies but now are suffering. Bottom line they are proven back biting SOB's and now its understood by all .. some people have sympathies thus why they have little existence but with time these morons will suffocate

 

[W.11]

They have very strong reason to hate pakistan and pakistanis. You interfered in their internal matters, took dollars from america to counter communists in afghanistan, you introduced jihadism and extremism in their society, you are still interfering in their country, you consider afghanistan as fifth province of pakistan, the list is long.
If my afghan fellows dislike lar pashtuns then i wont blame them as we have betrayed them and had had preferred mohajirs/sindhis/punjabis over them.

its infact an afghani who has betrayed pakistan.

firstly it was afghan who was used by american CIA to kill liaquat ali khan

in indo pak war an afghani president said it will not back bite pakistan

pakistan took money from US to interfere in afghanistan, i beg a pardon but the afghanis were the ones who got first interfered from USSR and got raped by them, their own president got killed by USSR, and if the afghani is so proud they why they so much boast about defeating the super power? not only pakistan supported afghanistan getting a free country but also imported so many millions of poverty stricken afghans plus afghan weapons and drug mafia inside our country, our country suffered from this drug mafia and a land which had nothing to do with drugs because violant because of drug smuggling in our country thanks to afghans

still we kept welcoming afghans in our largest cities and ecomic hub like karachi

we knew we had to suffer this afghan ***** but still now we consider them as our brothers in the meaning of 'islamic brotherhood'

talibans are not afghans but punjabis???, ***** please , if talibans had been other then afghans then i might have said, poor afghans are getting raped by pakistan, but its not punjabis or mohajirs but afghans themselves raping their own country, its not pakistan but afghans have been raping their country since long time

afghanistan also had become a soviet stooge and wanted to spread terrorism in pakistan, the soviets tried to occupy pakistan by using afghans and their dirty scum ***** stooge, remember the fighter jet MIG we have which reminds how these afghans wanted to hurt us?

if you guys like more of your ugly stupid afgooni brother and want to choose them any time of the day then you are most welcome to spend rest of your time in kabul and mazar shareef then karachi, lahore and islamabad, and we all other non pashtun pakistan will also very much like to ship all afghans and if pakistani pashtuns wanna like to join them as well to afghanistan from our biggest cities which are vital for us

there is a simple rule, pathans who are living in pakistan are pakistanis, and they must favour a punjabi or mohajir or sindhi or balochi then a afghani, just to feel being same race, we mohajirs can favour our indian brothers than a pathan and would gladly like to replace or indian brothers then a pathan brother in karachi, a punjabi would also like to feel closer to indian punjabi brother by welcoming indian punjabi to lahore and islamabad and help them more than a pakitan pathan brother, and same stands for balochi feeling more intimate to his iranian balochi brother than a pathan brother in quetta city, no we are pakistan, so if you are pakistani you have to follow this simple rule, or you can have a wonderful time spending in kabul for all we care

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

its infact an afghani who has betrayed pakistan.

firstly it was afghan who was used by american CIA to kill liaquat ali khan

in indo pak war an afghani president said it will not back bite pakistan

pakistan took money from US to interfere in afghanistan, i beg a pardon but the afghanis were the ones who got first interfered from USSR and got raped by them, their own president got killed by USSR, and if the afghani is so proud they why they so much boast about defeating the super power? not only pakistan supported afghanistan getting a free country but also imported so many millions of poverty stricken afghans plus afghan weapons and drug mafia inside our country, our country suffered from this drug mafia and a land which had nothing to do with drugs because violant because of drug smuggling in our country thanks to afghans

still we kept welcoming afghans in our largest cities and ecomic hub like karachi

we knew we had to suffer this afghan ***** but still now we consider them as our brothers in the meaning of 'islamic brotherhood'

talibans are not afghans but punjabis???, ***** please , if talibans had been other then afghans then i might have said, poor afghans are getting raped by pakistan, but its not punjabis or mohajirs but afghans themselves raping their own country, its not pakistan but afghans have been raping their country since long time

afghanistan also had become a soviet stooge and wanted to spread terrorism in pakistan, the soviets tried to occupy pakistan by using afghans and their dirty scum ***** stooge, remember the fighter jet MIG we have which reminds how these afghans wanted to hurt us?

if you guys like more of your ugly stupid afgooni brother and want to choose them any time of the day then you are most welcome to spend rest of your time in kabul and mazar shareef then karachi, lahore and islamabad, and we all other non pashtun pakistan will also very much like to ship all afghans and if pakistani pashtuns wanna like to join them as well to afghanistan from our biggest cities which are vital for us

there is a simple rule, pathans who are living in pakistan are pakistanis, and they must favour a punjabi or mohajir or sindhi or balochi then a afghani, just to feel being same race, we mohajirs can favour our indian brothers than a pathan and would gladly like to replace or indian brothers then a pathan brother in karachi, a punjabi would also like to feel closer to indian punjabi brother by welcoming indian punjabi to lahore and islamabad and help them more than a pakitan pathan brother, and same stands for balochi feeling more intimate to his iranian balochi brother than a pathan brother in quetta city, no we are pakistan, so if you are pakistani you have to follow this simple rule, or you can have a wonderful time spending in kabul for all we care

Did'nt allama iqbal said "afghan baqi kohsaar baqi", why so much hate against your fellow muslims of afghanistan?
If afghans are not thankful then you were also not sincere with them, you are making them stay in the country to recieve aid for refugees and eat it.
By the way i am always asked to pack my bags and go to afghanistan by my fellow pakistanis, whenever i say stuff like afghan=pashtun or that ethnically we are same people. Is this a lack of trust or a fear that seceretly we are harbouring a pakhtunistan plan?

 

[Icarus]

Did'nt allama iqbal said "afghan baqi kohsaar baqi", why so much hate against your fellow muslims of afghanistan?

It's a mutual feeling, never talked to an Afghan (particularly Afghan Pukhtun) who had some kind words to say for Pakistan.

If afghans are not thankful then you were also not sincere with them, you are making them stay in the country to recieve aid for refugees and eat it.

We host over 6 million of them on our fragile economy.
Loose millions of tonnes of grain through smuggling.
Have to live with drugs.
The increases in number of arms doing rounds on the streets.
These are all the gifts that Afghans have brought to us in return for our help.

By the way i am always asked to pack my bags and go to afghanistan by my fellow pakistanis, whenever i say stuff like afghan=pashtun or that ethnically we are same people. Is this a lack of trust or a fear that seceretly we are harbouring a pakhtunistan plan?

Well, not all Afghans are Pukhtun, there is a considerable non-Pushtun population in Afghanistan, Darrigan, Hazara, Tajik, Uzbek and that's just the tip of the iceberg. So technically your Afghan=Pukhtun theory is flawed, that would explain why some people are hostile towards it. As for Pukhtunistan, its the bastard child of the Nationalist Pukhtun Afghans the 50s, 60s and 70s. It has never caught on and has been rejected by Pakistani Pukhtuns and Afghan Non-Puhtuns. Not a viable plan, never was. Pukhtuns are the most well represented community in Civil and Armed Forces in Pakistan with respect to %age total population. Why would they want to go and join someone else.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

"A" in Pakistan stands for afghania yet people are confused about afghan terminology. There are kurds, azerbaijanis , balochs etc in iran, they are "iranis" by nationality. In the same way a tajik of afghanistan is afghan by nationality, not by ethnicity , they have a country also tajikistan.
My fellow pakistanis try very hard to prove that pashtuns of afghanistan are very different from pakistani pashtuns, but things do not work like this. A german is german whether he is of germany or austria. A korean is korean whether he lives in north or south. A kurd is kurd whether he lives in turkey or iraq. Similarly afghan is afghan whether he is of lar or bar.

 

[53fd]

"A" in Pakistan stands for afghania yet people are confused about afghan terminology. There are kurds, azerbaijanis , balochs etc in iran, they are "iranis" by nationality. In the same way a tajik of afghanistan is afghan by nationality, not by ethnicity , they have a country also tajikistan.
My fellow pakistanis try very hard to prove that pashtuns of afghanistan are very different from pakistani pashtuns, but things do not work like this. A german is german whether he is of germany or austria. A korean is korean whether he lives in north or south. A kurd is kurd whether he lives in turkey or iraq. Similarly afghan is afghan whether he is of lar or bar.

There are many similarities between the Afghan & Pakistani Pashtuns. However, the Afghan Pashtuns have been at war for the last few decades, whereas Pakistani Pashtuns haven't. The Afghan Pashtun "Tajikized" elites sitting in Kabul do not represent the common Afghan Pashtun. There is nothing that bring the Afghan Pashtun together with the other ethnicities in Afghanistan, there are quite a few things that unite the Pakistani Pashtuns with other ethnicities. Which is why on a whole, the Pakistani Pashtuns are much more prosperous than the average Afghan Pashtun & average Afghan (regardless of ethnicity). The way Afghan Pashtuns are with the Pakistani Pashtuns is the way an Indian Punjabi is with a Pakistani Punjabi: they agree on non-political issues, share a lot of culture, common heritage & history; but disagree on the political issues.

Afghans not only hate one another based on their ethnicity, they also hate Iran & Pakistan, the two countries they are linked to (ethnically, historically, culturally) closest. They hate the present Afghan government, & the warlords. They hate the US/NATO. They dislike the Taliban, who are the Afghan people. These people are hopelessly divided, do not have a consensus on anything, do not like anyone but themselves, & do not have an ounce of unity with each other.

Pashtuns from Kabul, & Dari majority areas live in their delusions, & are detached from the realities of the Pashtun masses in the rest of the country. These Pashtuns are the enemies of Pakistan, not the Afghan Pashtun masses. I would encourage Pakistanis not to think of people like Karzai, or some members on this forum; as representing the Afghan Pashtun masses. Likewise, the Afghan Tajiks, Hazaras & Pashtuns are always at each other's throats; blaming each other for everyone's ills; blaming everyone besides themselves (their own countrymen, as well as foreign nations) for the ills in their country.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Best if the Afghan Pashtuns "liberate" themselves from the Persian speaking people and influence before they talk about the Pakistan Pashtun...otherwise they can just shut up with this Pashtunistan stuff

 

[KingMamba]

I've met some pathan afghans in NY (god knows how they got here lol) first thing they say when they hear my family is from Pakistan is that we stole Peshawar from them and that half of there brothers are stranded in Pakistan then I usually tell them that Pakistan could not have stolen Peshawar as Afghanistan is a part of Pakistan LOL the look on their faces is always priceless.

 

[SHAMK9]

Tajik Air to start flights to Islamabad from June’
KARACHI: Tajik Air, the national flag carrier of Tajikistan, is all set to start its flight operations between Dushanbe and Islamabad from June, while Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) would also fly between Lahore and Dushanbe, the date of which is yet to be finalised, said an official of Tajikistan.

Tajikistan is also in the process of starting issuing business and tourist visas to people of Pakistan from Karachi in the near future, he added.

“Tajik Air would start flying between Dushanbe and Islamabad from next June,” said Irshad Kasim, honorary consul general of Tajikistan, while quoting ambassador of Tajikistan to Pakistan, Dr Zubaydullo N Zubaydov.

Earlier, Zubaydov held a meeting with the officials of the Trade Development Authority of Pakistan (TDAP) recently along with the honorary consul general and informed them about the latest plan of Tajik Air operations.

The envoy also discussed matters related to economic, business and trade ties between the two countries.

“Tajik Air has acquired Civil Aviation licence and proper track route to fly between the two countries,” he said, adding, “The airline will operate two flights a week from June, in the first phase, and will add Karachi and Lahore to its operation at a later stage.”

The two airlines would start flying to their new destinations in the aftermath of an understanding reached between President Asif Ali Zardari and his Tajik counterpart Imam Ali Rehmon in March, he said.

“Dr Zubaydov also informed the TDAP to extend full-fledged status to the Consulate General of Tajikistan in Karachi and to start issuing visas to the businessmen, as well as to the tourists very soon.”

“Initially, a visa councilor will be posted in Karachi and more staff would be added later on depending upon the volume of visa applications flowing in at the Consulate,” he said, quoting the Tajik envoy.

Tajikistan has also appointed honorary consul generals in Lahore and Peshawar after Karachi, Kasim quoted Zubaydov.

He announced to form Pakistan-Tajikistan Business Forum (PTBF) soon with an aim to boost bilateral trade and brotherly relations between the two countries and spearheading the Karachi Consulate.

The work is also in progress to set up a display centre of Tajikistan in Karachi for the introduction and promotion of Tajik products in Pakistan, he said, adding that the display centre would be a one room trading centre that would be extended further at a later stage.

Moreover, tripartite negotiations between Tajikistan, Pakistan and Afghanistan are going on for the transit trade agreement and construction of road linking Pakistan with Tajikistan through Wakhan, Afghanistan, he said.

As a follow up of a big trade delegation from Pakistan to Tajikistan arranged by the TDAP with the coordination of Tajik Embassy in Islamabad last year, the National Bank of Pakistan (NBP) had already opened up its branch in Dushanbe and banking channel has been established, he said, adding that President Zardari and President Rehmon jointly inaugurated the NBP’s branch in Dushanbe during Zardari’s visit in March to attend Tajikistan’s 20th Independence Day celebrations and Nauroze.

Zubaydov said that Tajikistan is in the state of rebuilding after seven years of civil war. The country has, however, become politically and economically very stable under the leadership of President Rehmon.

He invited Pakistanis to visit Tajikistan for business, tourism, as well as Ziarat (visiting) of famous Saint Syed Ali Hamadani (RA) in Kulab.

He invited opening up a Pakistani restaurant in Tajikistan and offered business visa in this regard too. Cooperation in the field of textile manufacturing in Tajikistan is yielding visible results, he said, adding that a working group of the ministry of industries of Pakistan has traveled to Tajikistan in July 2011 for deliberation on the allocation of investment in the construction of the cement plant.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-3-108415-Tajik-Air-to-start-flights-to-Islamabad-from-June

 

[53fd]

"A" in Pakistan stands for afghania yet people are confused about afghan terminology. There are kurds, azerbaijanis , balochs etc in iran, they are "iranis" by nationality. In the same way a tajik of afghanistan is afghan by nationality, not by ethnicity , they have a country also tajikistan.
My fellow pakistanis try very hard to prove that pashtuns of afghanistan are very different from pakistani pashtuns, but things do not work like this. A german is german whether he is of germany or austria. A korean is korean whether he lives in north or south. A kurd is kurd whether he lives in turkey or iraq. Similarly afghan is afghan whether he is of lar or bar.

If what you are saying about Pashtuns is true, why are we seeing this from the Pashtun Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government?

KPK govt orders 929 Afghan families, 473 suspected Afghans to leave the country | The Nation

KP orders deportation of 2,000 Afghan refugees | The Nation

Peshawar to repatriate 0.4m illegal Afghan refugees | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Best if the Afghan Pashtuns "liberate" themselves from the Persian speaking people and influence before they talk about the Pakistan Pashtun...otherwise they can just shut up with this Pashtunistan stuff

And what about urdu influence on pakistani pashtuns?. Dari is native to afghanistan... On the other hand 200 year old urdu was brought from plains of ganga and we are made to learn it. When we raise issue of danger to our mother tongue , it is labeled "lasaniat", "ilaqaiat".
Jinnah told us that we are neither punjabi, nor pathan, sindhi or baloch, we are just pakistanis...i.e no diversity.
No doubt Dari is very dominant langauge in afghanistan but pashtuns there speak very pure pashto compared to pakistani pashtuns who use lot of urdu words in it. An afghan can write in pashto while a pakistani pashtun can not. So tell me who is at disadvantage. I can see future of my people in next 100 years, they would be speaking urdu instead of pashto, dancing bhangra instead of attan and wearing pant shirts instead of khat pardoog.
Many pakistanis say to afghans that we have twice the number of pashtuns in pakistan compared to your country. But what would be the use of these numerical advantage when our future generations would be "naam k pathan" like shahrukh, aamir khan, irfan pathan etc....

 

[Icarus]

And what about urdu influence on pakistani pashtuns?. Dari is native to afghanistan... On the other hand 200 year old urdu was brought from plains of ganga and we are made to learn it. When we raise issue of danger to our mother tongue , it is labeled "lasaniat", "ilaqaiat".
Jinnah told us that we are neither punjabi, nor pathan, sindhi or baloch, we are just pakistanis...i.e no diversity.
No doubt Dari is very dominant langauge in afghanistan but pashtuns there speak very pure pashto compared to pakistani pashtuns who use lot of urdu words in it. An afghan can write in pashto while a pakistani pashtun can not. So tell me who is at disadvantage. I can see future of my people in next 100 years, they would be speaking urdu instead of pashto, dancing bhangra instead of attan and wearing pant shirts instead of khat pardoog.
Many pakistanis say to afghans that we have twice the number of pashtuns in pakistan compared to your country. But what would be the use of these numerical advantage when our future generations would be "naam k pathan" like shahrukh, aamir khan, irfan pathan etc....

That is a very narrow minded and factually incorrect approach to the matter. It is a fact that Indian Punjabis speak much purer Pubjabi than do we, they practice Gatka, Bassant and Besakhi. Traditions that we have forsaken, however there is little I can blame the Federation for, it is obvious that when you are segregated from one group, no matter how similar, with time differences will develop. The two Koreas are a prime example, their language has evolved along two different lines and now North Korean Defectors undergo language courses to learn the 'New' Korean. Your customs are yours to preserve, if you choose not to, then even if the entire world is made Pukhtun, you will lose them and if you wish to preserve them, then you can do so even if you are the last Pukhtun on earth.


BTW, you need to research the word "Non-Pushto Speaking Pathans", they are ethnically Pushtun but having settled in other parts of the world or their own countries, have forsaken Pukhto as their first language. Ayub Khan, Imran Khan are good examples.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

If what you are saying about Pashtuns is true, why are we seeing this from the Pashtun Khyber Pakhtunkhwa government?

KPK govt orders 929 Afghan families, 473 suspected Afghans to leave the country | The Nation

KP orders deportation of 2,000 Afghan refugees | The Nation

Peshawar to repatriate 0.4m illegal Afghan refugees | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

You did'nt get the point. If you have read my previous posts, i have clearly stated that afghan mohajirs should return back to their country. ANP is in governament and is following pakistani contitution and are taking legal actions, qanoon se koi balatar nahi, you should appreciate them instead of calling them ghaddar. But tell me , does it change the fact of afghan= pashtun?. If hispanic american policeman arrest illegal mexican, would it imply that both are not racially related?

 

[53fd]

And what about urdu influence on pakistani pashtuns?. Dari is native to afghanistan... On the other hand 200 year old urdu was brought from plains of ganga and we are made to learn it. When we raise issue of danger to our mother tongue , it is labeled "lasaniat", "ilaqaiat".
Jinnah told us that we are neither punjabi, nor pathan, sindhi or baloch, we are just pakistanis...i.e no diversity.
No doubt Dari is very dominant langauge in afghanistan but pashtuns there speak very pure pashto compared to pakistani pashtuns who use lot of urdu words in it. An afghan can write in pashto while a pakistani pashtun can not. So tell me who is at disadvantage. I can see future of my people in next 100 years, they would be speaking urdu instead of pashto, dancing bhangra instead of attan and wearing pant shirts instead of khat pardoog.
Many pakistanis say to afghans that we have twice the number of pashtuns in pakistan compared to your country. But what would be the use of these numerical advantage when our future generations would be "naam k pathan" like shahrukh, aamir khan, irfan pathan etc....

You probably haven't met the Tajikized Afghan Pashtuns like I have living in Kabul & places like Panjsher, they are not fluent in Pashto either. Pakistan is not a mess like Afghanistan, because people generally think about the common & overall good of society; uniting together than being divided like the Afghans are. Urdu is the franca lingua in Pakistan, like Dari is the franca lingua in Afghanistan (Urdu is not superior to any regional language in Pakistan, it is relatively easier to learn than other regional languages of Pakistan, which is why it has been adopted by Pakistan for Pakistanis). There is nothing that unites the various ethnicities of Afghanistan together, which is why it is a failed state. Urdu is a common means for us to understand one another, religion is the glue that holds us together & keeps us away from ethnic divide. According to a recent Gallup poll, 89% of Pakistanis consider themselves as Pakistani first & their ethnic groups second.. The people that do not consider themselves to be Pakistanis are free to move to Afghanistan & live with their brethren there.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

That is a very narrow minded and factually incorrect approach to the matter. It is a fact that Indian Punjabis speak much purer Pubjabi than do we, they practice Gatka, Bassant and Besakhi. Traditions that we have forsaken, however there is little I can blame the Federation for, it is obvious that when you are segregated from one group, no matter how similar, with time differences will develop. The two Koreas are a prime example, their language has evolved along two different lines and now North Korean Defectors undergo language courses to learn the 'New' Korean. Your customs are yours to preserve, if you choose not to, then even if the entire world is made Pukhtun, you will lose them and if you wish to preserve them, then you can do so even if you are the last Pukhtun on earth.


BTW, you need to research the word "Non-Pushto Speaking Pathans", they are ethnically Pushtun but having settled in other parts of the world or their own countries, have forsaken Pukhto as their first language. Ayub Khan, Imran Khan are good examples.

I dont know whether to appreciate or criticize punjabi to forsake their langauge and culture for that of delhi and UP. I wont comment on them.
Let me talk about my people, you gave me examples of ayub khan and imran khan, that they are/were ethnically non-pashto speaking pathans. Things doesnt work like this in pashtun society, we doesnt classfy ourselves on racial lines. We have jats, awans, qureshis syeds etc among ourselves, they have adopted pashto and for us they are pashtun for us, not ayub khan or imran khan. I am marwat, and niazis are our cousins and neighbours but we call them "punjabiyan" as they speak seraiki.
and we also measure ourselves by pakhtunwali. A ghairatmand punjabi would be more respectable to us then a pashtun of weak character.