Pakistan is buying Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats

[Zarvan]

The way Indians act about their weapons is quite amazing first these ships are solely for defense not offense meaning your ship has to come really close to our seas to get attacked by this ship. So this ship would have advantage as for P-8 if you want to send that jet to our seas than this ship also has Air Defence systems as well our Navy would also soon operate two squadrons of JF-17 which would deal with your P-8 if it tries to enter our territory.

 

[ni8mare]

Lets not forget Phalanx

TYPE 22 HAVE PHALANX..IT'S NEWS TO ME

not impossible to shoot it down.

WITH WHAT.....REALLY WANT TO KNOW

Air Defence systems

WHAT AIR DEFENCE?

 

[Donatello]

You think this is some kind of blow?
These are basically souped up coast guard ships,they are defenceless against heavier IN flotilla or air attack by brahmos.

Indian flotilla would need to get past SU35s and their barrage of Supersonic missiles.
Good Luck with that!

 

[Spectre]

Indian flotilla would need to get past SU35s and their barrage of Supersonic missiles.
Good Luck with that!

Well true when and if Pakistan get's SU-35 and if that happens I am sure India will make provisions to keep the current balance or rather imbalance intact.

The thing is good sir, both of our countries are no longer constrained by sanctions and it is a free market so only criteria is who has more money.

Regards

 

[Donatello]

Well true when and if Pakistan get's SU-35 and if that happens I am sure India will make provisions to keep the current balance or rather imbalance intact.

The thing is good sir, both of our countries are no longer constrained by sanctions and it is a free market so only criteria is who has more money.

Regards

What will India do to counter the hypothetical scenario where Pakistan has SU35s? Your MKIs and Rafale would be inferior. Any attempt by USA to sell F-35s to India would be countered by equal offers from China in the same time frame.

The thing is, in it's current form, PN is shyt and IN is supreme. However, if i have aerial assets that can seek your big ships out from 300+ km and launch their salvo of missiles from 200km away, there is nothing in your Air-Defense that can counter that. Your Mig 29s can be fully engaged by JF-17s and F-16s.

The idea for Pakistan is not to get into a ship based arms race. We cannot match that. In order to do that, we need to spend 20-30 Billion USD. However, if the original task is sea denial and deterrence, then it can accomplished cheaply by using smart air weapons. So rather than forking out 30 Billion USD on building a navy fleet, why not spend 5-10 Billion and accomplish the same thing?

 

[Spectre]

What will India do to counter the hypothetical scenario where Pakistan has SU35s? Your MKIs and Rafale would be inferior. Any attempt by USA to sell F-35s to India would be countered by equal offers from China in the same time frame.

Agreed, However there is day and night difference between offerings of Chinese and US 5th Gen fighter jets. Naval F-35s for atleast for a period of 10 - 15 years will reign supreme. Kindly keep this in mind.

The thing is, in it's current form, PN is shyt and IN is supreme. However, if i have aerial assets that can seek your big ships out from 300+ km and launch their salvo of missiles from 200km away, there is nothing in your Air-Defense that can counter that. Your Mig 29s can be fully engaged by JF-17s and F-16s.

Agreed, however again the presumption based on Hypothetical Pakistan Assets and Current Indian assets. Not a just comparison.

The idea for Pakistan is not to get into a ship based arms race. We cannot match that. In order to do that, we need to spend 20-30 Billion USD. However, if the original task is sea denial and deterrence, then it can accomplished cheaply by using smart air weapons. So rather than forking out 30 Billion USD on building a navy fleet, why not spend 5-10 Billion and accomplish the same thing?

Keep in mind Barrack 8 and it's subsequent future iterations, Future fighter screen and so on and so forth.

My apologies, I am way out of my depth here and my replies are based on liberal application of common sense. Technically someone else may be better placed to answer your queries in technical terms.

 

[Blue Marlin]

这款导弹艇要发挥出应有的威力，个人认为巴基斯坦需要特别重视两项能力：预警能力和协同指挥能力。022导弹艇最高时速能达到50节，比较适合发起突然打击或快速迎战。主动发起攻击的前提是拥有足够的战前预警能力，否则即便是022高速导弹艇也可能遭到毁灭性的的空中打击。另外，022不能单独行动，它本身作为护卫舰和驱逐舰的有力补充是完全合格的，但限于吨位，不可能单独远离海岸寻找有力作战机会，此外，它也需要空中配合。
现代战争已经不是一两件武器，一个兵种能够致胜的，需要海陆空协同。所以，建设本国可靠的一体化数据链和数据传输系统，对于武器的整合和充分发挥威力尤其重要！

english please!

 

[surya kiran]

Indian flotilla would need to get past SU35s and their barrage of Supersonic missiles.

khayali pulao started. Why not the 6th generation jet the Chinese are going to make for you?

 

[Donatello]

Agreed, However there is day and night difference between offerings of Chinese and US 5th Gen fighter jets. Naval F-35s for atleast for a period of 10 - 15 years will reign supreme. Kindly keep this in mind.



Agreed, however again the presumption based on Hypothetical Pakistan Assets and Current Indian assets. Not a just comparison.



Keep in mind Barrack 8 and it's subsequent future iterations, Future fighter screen and so on and so forth.

My apologies, I am way out of my depth here and my replies are based on liberal application of common sense. Technically someone else may be better placed to answer your queries in technical terms.

There is currently no offer of F-35 to India by USA. India itself is a miserable place for procurement since you are stuck with a basic MMRCA tender for the past 7 years. How do you think the attempt to procure F-35 would go.........which is not on offer at the moment. USA want's business and money from India, but it cannot and will not alienate or abandon Pakistan.

LR Barrack will take a long time to develop.

 

[surya kiran]

What will India do to counter the hypothetical scenario where Pakistan has SU35s?

In a hypothetical scenario, there will be a hypothetical fifth generation which will face your hypothetical su35.

 

[Spectre]

There is currently no offer of F-35 to India by USA. India itself is a miserable place for procurement since you are stuck with a basic MMRCA tender for the past 7 years. How do you think the attempt to procure F-35 would go.........which is not on offer at the moment. USA want's business and money from India, but it cannot and will not alienate or abandon Pakistan.

LR Barrack will take a long time to develop.

This is a easy one to answer MMRCA delay is primarily due to lack of urgent threat perception by India vis a vis Pakistan. With regards to China there is very less chance of any hostilities breaking out due to immense bi-lateral trade highly beneficial to China.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Irrespective of what Yakhont can do during flight how it will lock on type-022 is still to be proven.
To target type-022 Onyx's range will be limited to 150km only
Lets not forget Phalanx, which can target missiles traveling at supersonic speed.
Onyx travels at a predetermined path and its flight trajectory almost remains same, making it not a difficult job for the interceptors.
Type-022 can talk to AWACS and once the missile is picked up, not impossible to shoot it down.
Onyx accuracy?
Pakistan posses sufficient resources and capabilities to thwart Indian dreams of naval blockade and one missile alone cannot guarantee Indian advantage.

Brahmos range is 290 km i don't know why range is limited to 150 kms.AEW Helicopters and carrier aircraft or maritime patrol aircraft like P-8I with their own radars patrolling 400 kms outside the fringes of CBG can easily pick it up,why will it allowed to close to 150 km..they can also provide mid course link for brahmos.What will carrier escorts,carrier aircraft,carrier escort submarine do?Wait for patrol boats to move with impunity?that makes whole point of having carrier aircraft useless.
Phoenix is useless vs brahmos due to speed and endphase manuever ,its capable of eliminating subsonic targets.
Don't know about onyx but brahmos has various flight profiles as well as zig zaf manuever in final phase.To shoot it down reliably u need modern SAMs like aster,sm-6,barak-8 .
Sea skimmers are very difficult to pick up for AWACS,also awacs operating near CBG is likely to be shot down by carrier group aircraft.

Right now pakistan doesn't possess sufficient resources to prevent blockade,this can easily change if PN gets a air defence ship and good submarines and new maritime strike aircraft like su-35/flankers etc.Right now i would argue brahmos does guarantee indian advanatge in naval arena because pakistani naval fleet is defenceless against this missile just like in 1971 PN was defenceless against styx missile.

Indian flotilla would need to get past SU35s and their barrage of Supersonic missiles.
Good Luck with that!

When you get su-35 ,that will be a good point in ur favour.Till then its no point.

 

[Donatello]

When you get su-35 ,that will be a good point in ur favour.Till then its no point.

I know for a fact that PAF looking into a 'third type' option for non-stealth/low RCS aircraft.....beyond JF-17 and F-16s. I also know for a fact they are looking into both Medium and Heavy category. But whether this requirement is to be fulfilled by SU35 only, i am not sure. As the Air Chief said recently, PAF is looking at both Western and Eastern Options. Eastern being Chinese, and Western, i am assuming he counts Moscow as western.

In any case, PAF is looking to build a dedicated medium-heavy aerial anti-sea capability.

 

[ni8mare]

Indian flotilla would need to get past SU35s and their barrage of Supersonic missiles.
Good Luck with that!

What about couple of SM-6 and S-400 !!!!!!..........will that be good enough
^^^^^^^^^^^

However, if i have aerial assets that can seek your big ships out from 300+ km and launch their salvo of missiles from 200km away, there is nothing in your Air-Defense that can counter that.

And if indian warships gets SM-6 and S-400 will your suddenly not-junk-russian-aircraft will be ever come as close 350 km?

The idea for Pakistan is not to get into a ship based arms race. We cannot match that. In order to do that, we need to spend 20-30 Billion USD. However, if the original task is sea denial and deterrence, then it can accomplished cheaply by using smart air weapons. So rather than forking out 30 Billion USD on building a navy fleet, why not spend 5-10 Billion and accomplish the same thing?

what if india goes for much more cheaper solution like very long range SAM that i have pointed

LR Barrack will take a long time to develop.

Long-range SAMs, cruise missiles for all platforms: Avinash Chander - The Hindu

develop long-range SAMs of 300 km range

that is like 2 years ago, now most probably its hardware being realised

 

[tarrar]

PN should try to buy Type 55 or 56 navy ships from China. PN is weak & if PN successfully buys these navy ships it will strengthen PN.