Pakistan Inadvertantly Admits That Its First Strike Capability Is Neutered:--

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

That's exactly my point, we know who our enemies are which is not Pakistan or Pakistanis directly so why would we go to war with them?



Oh we have had terror attacks here in Nairobi also and you must be aware of the big Asian population we have here in Africa?

If you as an indian don't consider Pakistan your enemy then I don't consider you or your nation my enemy either.

 

[Dr Gupta]

If you as an indian don't consider Pakistan your enemy then I don't consider you or your nation my enemy either.

Actually I would like to visit Karachi and Lahore one day in my life

 

[nangyale]

What's so intelligent about hiding behind a Kenyan/British flag.
If you want to talk from an Indian perspective then atleast have that as your origin or location and everybody will understand.
Intelligent conversation is always welcomed here, false-flagging not so much.

Do I look like a teen kid with spots? my friend I seen much in this world and understand what is going on but alas many here seem to love fighting rather than having rational intelligent dialogue where we can learn from one another.

 

[Dr Gupta]

What's so intelligent about hiding behind a Kenyan/British flag.
If you want to talk from an Indian perspective then atleast have that as your origin or location and everybody will understand.
Intelligent conversation is always welcomed here, false-flagging not so much.

How do you know I have false flags? what does my name say? I was born in Kenya and live in UK how does that make me a Indian citizen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indians_in_Kenya

We been in Kenya before India and Pakistan were created

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at

Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.

I was reading about President Eisenhower and i came across something very interesting about USA and Soviet Conflict in 1950s.During President Eisenhower's era many of his advisers were pushing him to strike on USSR before they could and that was because at the time Soviets didn't have ICBMs that could reach USA. Soviets delivery system were mostly long range bombers which meant enough time for US to engage them before they could reach mainland. This however changed altogether once Soviets developed ICBMs because now the reaction time changed from hours to 15 mins or so and the idea of hitting Soviets first was off the table for a while.
What we learn from above is that time and reaction time as well as reach of weapons can upset a whole doctrine.
As you asserted that USA will be defending India from N weapons so that bring USA into the equation. So lets see how can we neutralize any US intervention if no China involved. Access the threat level from US in any future conflict and go for either aggressive or defensive doctrine. That can also give Pakistan something to negotiate on table. Build ICBMs as quickly as possible and try to get carrier killer such as DF-21 from China along with S400s from Russia. It will take US out of any direct help to Indians because US wont be willing to risk too much for Indians.
This strategy will most certainly raise alarm bells and piss US off. It would also result in economic sanctions for a while. We can face the sanctions if CPEC is operational because Chinese will veto any hard sanctions on Pakistan. Also making sure that our friends in middle east can step in during those hard times.
Another option is taking the war underwaters. Build or acquire 3 to 5 Nuclear billistic missile subs. Now you cant calculate what you cant see. If we are able to launch from sea and hit Mumbai along with other missiles from with in Pakistan. Nuclear sub is a cheap option to outflank Indians. It can also launch from within Indian waters therefore changing the reaction time for Indians and US combine.
I don't think having more aircrafts or bombers only can change everything. I see one weakness in Pakistan and that is its land mass and strategic depth. I'm more worried about those aircrafts destroyed on ground.
We seriously need to start thinking about
1. Carving up more mountains in north of country and moving more assets there and formulate the strategy to totally overwhelm northern India. We have better position and better ground in north. Another advantage is that we don't have any hostile nation to the north but a very trusted friend. Indians don't have such luxury and therefore wont work for them.
2. Time to formulate a strategy to work underground bases or I think of it as WARRIORS OF HELL. That is formation of units who can fight in N effected/infected environment. These units mayb few but able to fight in real hostile environment and be able to take advantage of terrain after the tactical strike.
As far as air assets and ground assets and strike platfroms are concerned the more the technology advances the more vunerable they are. Underwater and Afterwards is the way to go.

 

[MastanKhan]

I was reading about President Eisenhower and i came across something very interesting about USA and Soviet Conflict in 1950s.During President Eisenhower's era many of his advisers were pushing him to strike on USSR before they could and that was because at the time Soviets didn't have ICBMs that could reach USA. Soviets delivery system were mostly long range bombers which meant enough time for US to engage them before they could reach mainland. This however changed altogether once Soviets developed ICBMs because now the reaction time changed from hours to 15 mins or so and the idea of hitting Soviets first was off the table for a while.
What we learn from above is that time and reaction time as well as reach of weapons can upset a whole doctrine.
As you asserted that USA will be defending India from N weapons so that bring USA into the equation. So lets see how can we neutralize any US intervention if no China involved. Access the threat level from US in any future conflict and go for either aggressive or defensive doctrine. That can also give Pakistan something to negotiate on table. Build ICBMs as quickly as possible and try to get carrier killer such as DF-21 from China along with S400s from Russia. It will take US out of any direct help to Indians because US wont be willing to risk too much for Indians.
This strategy will most certainly raise alarm bells and piss US off. It would also result in economic sanctions for a while. We can face the sanctions if CPEC is operational because Chinese will veto any hard sanctions on Pakistan. Also making sure that our friends in middle east can step in during those hard times.
Another option is taking the war underwaters. Build or acquire 3 to 5 Nuclear billistic missile subs. Now you cant calculate what you cant see. If we are able to launch from sea and hit Mumbai along with other missiles from with in Pakistan. Nuclear sub is a cheap option to outflank Indians. It can also launch from within Indian waters therefore changing the reaction time for Indians and US combine.
I don't think having more aircrafts or bombers only can change everything. I see one weakness in Pakistan and that is its land mass and strategic depth. I'm more worried about those aircrafts destroyed on ground.
We seriously need to start thinking about
1. Carving up more mountains in north of country and moving more assets there and formulate the strategy to totally overwhelm northern India. We have better position and better ground in north. Another advantage is that we don't have any hostile nation to the north but a very trusted friend. Indians don't have such luxury and therefore wont work for them.
2. Time to formulate a strategy to work underground bases or I think of it as WARRIORS OF HELL. That is formation of units who can fight in N effected/infected environment. These units mayb few but able to fight in real hostile environment and be able to take advantage of terrain after the tactical strike.
As far as air assets and ground assets and strike platfroms are concerned the more the technology advances the more vunerable they are. Underwater and Afterwards is the way to go.

My Son,

There is a time for war---and there is time to put your head between your knees and pray----.

If your air force would have progressed at the rate it was supposed to do after 2002---you could take somewhat of a stand---and if you could have kept your mouth shiut and made no threats---there was no issue----but your problem has been that you have been bragging about nuking everything every time there was any hiccup or a sneeze---.

The white boys have taken your call very serious----they are going to castrate pakistan and will show the world how it is being done---.

They gave you a very small sample at Salala check post----you have no idea---how bad the U S military had been itching to take on pakistan.

The west wants to make up an example of the ultimate bad boy of the world aka Pakistan---.

We are lucky---that they fckd up in Libya and Syria----. Thank your stars---.

One time LENIN & BBERIA were sitting together having a glass of Vodka---Beria was silent for awhile deep down in his thoughts----.

Lenin looks over and say " Beria---shtoh---what are you thinking ".

Beria slowly turns his head and looks at Lenin silently for a moment---then silently, he replies, " You don't want to know---just be grateful that I am on your side ".

 

[Tiger Genie]

Several dozen generals, about 20 think tanks, literally 90+ consultants, hundreds of ministry officials ....all of them missed this but our buddy Mr.@Mastan Khan discovered things about Pak nukes that none of them could.

Ofcourse it is always easy for people who don't live in the Indian sub-continent to talk so easily about trading nuclear attacks. they don't have to care about wind directions, MAD et al.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

My Son,

There is a time for war---and there is time to put your head between your knees and pray----.

If your air force would have progressed at the rate it was supposed to do after 2002---you could take somewhat of a stand---and if you could have kept your mouth shiut and made no threats---there was no issue----but your problem has been that you have been bragging about nuking everything every time there was any hiccup or a sneeze---.

The white boys have taken your call very serious----they are going to castrate pakistan and will show the world how it is being done---.

They gave you a very small sample at Salala check post----you have no idea---how bad the U S military had been itching to take on pakistan.

The west wants to make up an example of the ultimate bad boy of the world aka Pakistan---.

We are lucky---that they fckd up in Libya and Syria----. Thank your stars---.

One time LENIN & BBERIA were sitting together having a glass of Vodka---Beria was silent for awhile deep down in his thoughts----.

Lenin looks over and say " Beria---shtoh---what are you thinking ".

Beria slowly turns his head and looks at Lenin silently for a moment---then silently, he replies, " You don't want to know---just be grateful that I am on your side ".

Dear using the words such as son or narrating a moment of intimidation and crying about the moments missed won't be of any use. I would ve appreciated if you wouldn't ve used the word son. It is you sir who brought the question in light about how Pakistan's 1st strike doctrine is totally nuterlized and you left the topic for discussion. So it was my opnion I'm sorry if you disagree with my opnion you have a right to do so as am I entitled to mine. Having cleared the air let's get to substance sir.
You said our Airforce messed up in 2002. Agreed they did but now what shall we put our head in our knees and cry about it?
If white boys wanted Pakistan to be the example then they would've done it in 2001 because that was the time when it was at its weakest and so was China.
I disagree that white boys messed up in Iraq,Syria,Libya and Yemen . Except Syria they got all the other above mentioned countries just where they wanted. And capitalist are thriving and I enjoy the gas price here in US.
I don't remember Pakistan threatening US or any other westren nation and have absolutely no hostility towards them as a state.You think white boys don't know that then you think of them of being very naive. I thought it was N. Korea that was the bad boy of the world and it NK AQ connection which got the white boys panicked. Sending military to other nations and hoping that they would give us they money and deploy those F15s and 16s is asking for more trouble. We would ve lost it here if Iranians and Indians would've stepped up after our involvement in Yemen. Military would've certainly been enjoying the Saudi money but average Pakistani would ve been enjoying whatever Indian and Iranians would've cooked up for them and we would've lost more than gained. Right now the peace in Pakistan espically in Baluchistan is directly a result of not going into Yemen.
Secondly if we know the white boy wana make an example of the bad boy then let the white boy recalculate and give him the reason to recalculate because Jaan saab ko payari ha.
Realistically if white boys coming after us then it doesn't matter how much air power or platform we have they will be sitting duck that's the reality. No matter how much or how better platform you have on surface or in air.
They only weakness in Nuclear warfare is Nuclear submarine which changes the whole scenerio and gives you more chances of achieving an objective such as Mumbai if Godforbid it's the armegadon.

 

[Kaniska]

Dil behlane ko Ghalib , yeh jung bhi achi hai

Agar tumhara dil itna kamjoor hai ki behelane ke liye Jung Chahiye, then both of us should fight war against the more challenging issues which both of our nation is fighting right now rather than fighting a war...Any way, apart from some fan boys from both India and Pakistan, i am so happy that both Modi and Sharif understand the futility of war. So they are working in a right direction in focusing on improving the economy of respective countries.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear using the words such as son or narrating a moment of intimidation and crying about the moments missed won't be of any use. I would ve appreciated if you wouldn't ve used the word son. It is you sir who brought the question in light about how Pakistan's 1st strike doctrine is totally nuterlized and you left the topic for discussion. So it was my opnion I'm sorry if you disagree with my opnion you have a right to do so as am I entitled to mine. Having cleared the air let's get to substance sir.
You said our Airforce messed up in 2002. Agreed they did but now what shall we put our head in our knees and cry about it?
If white boys wanted Pakistan to be the example then they would've done it in 2001 because that was the time when it was at its weakest and so was China.
I disagree that white boys messed up in Iraq,Syria,Libya and Yemen . Except Syria they got all the other above mentioned countries just where they wanted. And capitalist are thriving and I enjoy the gas price here in US.
I don't remember Pakistan threatening US or any other westren nation and have absolutely no hostility towards them as a state.You think white boys don't know that then you think of them of being very naive. I thought it was N. Korea that was the bad boy of the world and it NK AQ connection which got the white boys panicked. Sending military to other nations and hoping that they would give us they money and deploy those F15s and 16s is asking for more trouble. We would ve lost it here if Iranians and Indians would've stepped up after our involvement in Yemen. Military would've certainly been enjoying the Saudi money but average Pakistani would ve been enjoying whatever Indian and Iranians would've cooked up for them and we would've lost more than gained. Right now the peace in Pakistan espically in Baluchistan is directly a result of not going into Yemen.
Secondly if we know the white boy wana make an example of the bad boy then let the white boy recalculate and give him the reason to recalculate because Jaan saab ko payari ha.
Realistically if white boys coming after us then it doesn't matter how much air power or platform we have they will be sitting duck that's the reality. No matter how much or how better platform you have on surface or in air.
They only weakness in Nuclear warfare is Nuclear submarine which changes the whole scenerio and gives you more chances of achieving an objective such as Mumbai if Godforbid it's the armegadon.

So,

What is the issue then.

Several dozen generals, about 20 think tanks, literally 90+ consultants, hundreds of ministry officials ....all of them missed this but our buddy Mr.@Mastan Khan discovered things about Pak nukes that none of them could.

Ofcourse it is always easy for people who don't live in the Indian sub-continent to talk so easily about trading nuclear attacks. they don't have to care about wind directions, MAD et al.

Hi,

Please explain a little clearly what you want to say---. I don't understand the indian / pakistani talk.

 

[leftfordead]

Agar tumhara dil itna kamjoor hai ki behelane ke liye Jung Chahiye, then both of us should fight war against the more challenging issues which both of our nation is fighting right now rather than fighting a war...Any way, apart from some fan boys from both India and Pakistan, i am so happy that both Modi and Sharif understand the futility of war. So they are working in a right direction in focusing on improving the economy of respective countries.

Nope , I am not Kamjoor or Kamzoor to want a war for my Dil behlana .. its bad that you didn't catch the sarcasm .. anyway , I agree on both India and Pakistan has other battles to fight like Terrorism , Poverty , unemployment , lack of Education , clean water , energy , infrastructure and so on ... but the war between Pakistan and India is like a swoard hanging on wall with a thin rope, it can fall anytime on anyone ..

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

So,

What is the issue then.

Issue is that there is no issue as we speak. Pakistan is gaining ground on all fronts on regards to internal peace and economic front.
India on the other hand is stuck. They cozied up to US a little too much and US need India against China. It was decided during Bill Clinton's era. US want India to focus on China and also keep an eye on Russians using Indian soil. While India knows the predicament it is in want to keep shouting Pakistan. You know they have zero threat from Pakistan then why such a cry?They want to keep crying Pakistan let them. We are doing great and f16s issue I see as a minor set back. It could be a pressure tactic to ease pressure on PM and to please India some statements. Syria,Libya and Iraq had one thing in common they were Soviet Allies.
We don't have to change anything at the moment and keep the threat to India minimum clean up corruption and terrorism domestically and focus on economy. After a long time Pakistan is out of great game and India is in the mix. Let's see who blinks first India or US.
But nuclear submarine is a must requirement for future because if Pakistan is fighting a N war then it's fighting it's last war and if such is the case then Pakistan should make sure it can hit the enemy again and again and again and again and again even if the land is no more but smoke. 3 to 5 submarines can do that and that a scary scenerio for any enemy knowing that there are N subs out there with no home to go to and really pissed off.

 

[MastanKhan]

Issue is that there is no issue as we speak. Pakistan is gaining ground on all fronts on regards to internal peace and economic front.
India on the other hand is stuck. They cozied up to US a little too much and US need India against China. It was decided during Bill Clinton's era. US want India to focus on China and also keep an eye on Russians using Indian soil. While India knows the predicament it is in want to keep shouting Pakistan. You know they have zero threat from Pakistan then why such a cry?They want to keep crying Pakistan let them. We are doing great and f16s issue I see as a minor set back. It could be a pressure tactic to ease pressure on PM and to please India some statements. Syria,Libya and Iraq had one thing in common they were Soviet Allies.
We don't have to change anything at the moment and keep the threat to India minimum clean up corruption and terrorism domestically and focus on economy. After a long time Pakistan is out of great game and India is in the mix. Let's see who blinks first India or US.
But nuclear submarine is a must requirement for future because if Pakistan is fighting a N war then it's fighting it's last war and if such is the case then Pakistan should make sure it can hit the enemy again and again and again and again and again even if the land is no more but smoke. 3 to 5 submarines can do that and that a scary scenerio for any enemy knowing that there are N subs out there with no home to go to and really pissed off.

Hi,

Enjoy the illusion then.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Hi,

Enjoy the illusion then.

Threats from within outweigh than the military threat and army is on top of it. If we can checkmate them domestically then it will keep the intiative away from them to act.

 

[Talha Asif]