Pakistan has been offered the Chinese 4th generation J-11 (SU27)

[hillman32]

So much time is passed and I have not seen these promised Chinese planes in the skies of Pak.

 

[raveolution]

So much time is passed and I have not seen these promised Chinese planes in the skies of Pak.

Not gonna be happening for the next 10 years atleast. There will no twin engined plane until 2020 according to PAF's latest doctrine. And anyways the J-10b is supposed to be better than the J-11 according to posts in other threads, so why not just concentrate on that.

 

[ao333]

Not gonna be happening for the next 10 years atleast. There will no twin engined plane until 2020 according to PAF's latest doctrine. And anyways the J-10b is supposed to be better than the J-11 according to posts in other threads, so why not just concentrate on that.

You have it all wrong. Pakistan is not opting for twin-engined MRs mainly for the following reasons:

1) China lacks experience in heavy fighters. The J-11B will be China's first attempt at indigenizing dual-engine designs. The Chinese has yet to reveal its own heavy fighter. Thus, maintence, pilot training and logistics involving the J-11 will be compromised mainly due to the lack of Chinese expertise in the field.

2) The J-11 is not cost viable for Pakistan. The Flanker still has many non-Chinese parts. License fees demanded by the Russians upon initial purchase, and spare parts will make the purchase infeasible.

3) Engine maintenance costs will be extremely high, especially when Russian/Chinese engines have shorter service life than most of their western counterparts in the same class.

4) Twin-engine MRs like the Eurofighter are designed for deep penetration and strategic strikes. Pakistan is not on the offensive, but the defensive. It does not need its interceptors to supercruise (one of the greatest advantages of dual-engines) into enemy territory. This is also the reason why France deemed the Raphale "unpractical" for Pakistan.

Note: J-10B is and will not be twin-engined. It will nonetheless, be China's most advanced indigenous MR in service for the next 7 years or so.

For reference:

FGFA vs J-12/13
F-16 IN vs J-10B
Su-30MKI vs J-11B
Tejas vs J-10

India: Logistics, superior aircraft, advanced anti-surface missiles, naval experience
vs
China: Indigenous&industrial production capacity, superiority in all other weaponry, economy, numbers

Unknown factors: crew potency, geological position: Indian Ocean (oil transport routes), though can be argumented by Burmese, Sri lankan and Pakistani naval/air bases, vs Tibet (natural elevated topographical defence), though can be argumented by Japanese and Vietnamese encirclement.

As you can see, the two countries are evenly matched. It all comes down to who the United States and/or Russia supports.

 

[Luftwaffe]

ao333..China lacks experience in heavy fighters

well you were sleeping all these years..
Q-5 is a heavy fighter
F-6 was a heavy fighter
SU-27 is a heavy fighter
China has been maintaining bombers..come out of hibernation chamber.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J10B 2014/2015 (36 planes)
J10B 100 + (2015-2017)

J14 Or J11 2018 36

 

[All-Green]

I do not think PAF has shunned twin engined aircraft, it is just that we have a lot of tasks lined up and may not be able to handle a new monster.
PAF is already introducing three new fighter jets in its inventory, F-16 Blk52, JF-17 and FC-20.
On top of this the AEW&C and Fuel tankers are also new aircraft in its inventory.

For PAF to introduce yet another entirely new aircraft in its inventory would be very difficult, i would say that such a task borders on the realm of impossible and will not be productive.

JF-17is the first induction in any air force, implying that we have no reference data available of past operations and are the pioneers in devising the military tactics for this plane.
F-16Blk52 is also a very advanced beast compared to current F-16s and will take time to fully integrate.
FC-20 will be around in 2015 and will require massive effort to integrate as well.

Now all these fighters will also have to be integrated to the early warning and command systems and be tested for air to air refueling.

One also has to understand that each fighter has to be thoroughly tested in various battlefield scenarios and tactics developed accordingly, this takes a lot of time and is not an overnight process.

The logistical support and maintenance requirements unique to each aircraft make it all a costly venture on top of the many man hours required for training and setup of the support staff and facilities respectively.

If we look at all the current plans, logic would dictate that PAF should look for another fighter acquisition after 2015 when FC-20 will be the only fighter new to PAF, right now it is a very busy time for PAF.

J-11 is very much a possibility and can add a lethal punch to PAF in strike roles over land and sea, however it will most likely be considered after 2015.
Maybe China has something better to offer by that time, one never knows.

 

[ao333]

ao333..China lacks experience in heavy fighters

well you were sleeping all these years..
Q-5 is a heavy fighter
F-6 was a heavy fighter
SU-27 is a heavy fighter
China has been maintaining bombers..come out of hibernation chamber.

Q-5 is not a fighter
J-6 is 2nd gen.
SU-27 is not Chinese.
Pakistan needs twin-engined bomber expertise...? I remember you need 4 for those.

 

[Luftwaffe]

ao333..all wrong answers..

Q-5/A-5 Fantan is a heavy fighter bomber used for ground attack roles..
F-6 as explained above.
whether su-27 is Chinese or not...PLAAF has been operating them from 90's till now and 7-9 years of su-30..Chinese aviation industry is 45 years+
again you need some research regarding Chinese aviation.

 

[Mr. cool]

J10B 2014/2015 (36 planes)
J10B 100 + (2015-2017)

J14 Or J11 2018 36

Hello Gabbar Singh ji, how are you? (Just kidding, take it lightly)

I don't think that pakistan will buy any twine engine fighter or bomber before 2019...........

And ya Pakistan should not go with chines Su 27 because India is operation Su -30 More then 14 years and we have greater experience of this plane which is very important factor in WAR
Plus Pakistan air strategy is Defensive..............

so you generally don't required this kind of war birds. you should go with JF-17, F-16 and may be old Mirage-2000 in future.

What do you say?

 

[ao333]

ao333..China lacks experience in heavy fighters

well you were sleeping all these years..
Q-5 is a heavy fighter
F-6 was a heavy fighter
SU-27 is a heavy fighter
China has been maintaining bombers..come out of hibernation chamber.

ao333..all wrong answers..

Q-5/A-5 Fantan is a heavy fighter bomber used for ground attack roles..
F-6 as explained above.
whether su-27 is Chinese or not...PLAAF has been operating them from 90's till now and 7-9 years of su-30..Chinese aviation industry is 45 years+
again you need some research regarding Chinese aviation.

Look here,

Q-5 is not a fighter-bomber. It's a striker-bomber, with few variants equipped A2A.

J-6 is a second generation Russian copy.

Operating and manfracturing with indigenous kits are 2 different things. If pakistan were to buy flankers, it has to be made-in-china, something the J-11 is not...

 

[raveolution]

J10B 2014/2015 (36 planes)
J10B 100 + (2015-2017)

J14 Or J11 2018 36

Why not make that J10B - 1000 by 2015 and J11D - 1000 by 2018. Yaar Azad bhai u really are too much... First let the J10b specs get finalised and all relevant engines/ radar/ avionics get operational / selected and then the PAF can decide its future. As of now only 36 planes have been ordered which will start coming in by 2014-2015 if the program is on schedule. Where on earth did u get 100+ J10b's from by 2015??

 

[Azam Eagle]

I will Prefer a mixture of J10's and J11's for the future PAF.
There should be no deals with US abiut F16.
We dont need F16 with so much sanctions.
US shuold keep her F16 with her.we dont need....
PAK-CINO friendship Zindabad

 

[Sanchez]

To clarify some of the confusing comments Chinese Su-27s/J-11s are named in the following ways:

Su-27SK/UBK 76 = Russian original
J-11A 105 = Assembled with/without Chinese parts
J-11B 70+ = Chinese indigenous variants
J-11BS (or J-11C) = Redesigned J-11B
J-15 5+ = Naval version

Su-27s/J-11As/Su-30MKKs have all been shown inferior to J-10A in air combat excercises.

J-11B vs J-10A? Not yet tested.

The production of J-11B is already finished. PLAAF is ordering large numbers of J-11BS/J-11C, since it's a lot better than J-10B. By the end of the year there'll be only J-11BS and J-10B on the production lines. These fighters will likely be equipped with AESA radars, updated avionics and using new versions of PL-12G/PL-13 AA missiles. Their performances are expected to match up or exceed those of MKIs and Eurofighter Typhoons.

 

[Luftwaffe]

ao333...hatsoff to an idiot i'm not going to take this conversation to the next level mr. canadian.

>>read it and stop arguing..
Fighter bomber is a military aircraft designed to operate in combined roles of attacking enemy aircraft and bombing targets. Usually faster and more maneuverable than a traditional bomber Now F-16 and others have over taken the role of engaging enemy fighters but A-5 was good for its era.

bang your head dude try to understand..J-6/F-6 was a heavy twin engine fighter whether it is a 1st second 3rd gen it does not matter u raised the point that china has no or lacks experience with heavy fighters and i responded with the list..can't you get it in a simple way?! A-5/J-6 were not kits they were both indigenous F-7 is not kit but indigenous i can list airplanes Chinese manufactured upgraded and has operated and is operating..leave that su-27s kits, China has tendency they reveal things after they've operational j-11b has been in Chinese service for the last if not 5 years..for more information go back to 1950's Chinese aviation industry.

 

[zulfiqar74]

wel i guess
Self Reliance is the first and the last key to success.
If J11 comes with a technology transfer then its a good deal..
guys i m an electronic engineer and i think that people here definately have the potential to devlop almost anything weather its the radar or any electronic equipement in a fighter plane.. they just need financial support. I personly know some people in Pakistan who can make even a space shuttle for you ... But you know This is Pakistan .We dont have any respect of talent ...

100% true, no respect for talent.
proper law order, no corruption, right people in the right position in the govt or civil job. pak can be beautiful resourceful have a very good revenue, financial stability, a new energing super power not just military wise as we the bomb but technology, finance, agriculture, IT. look at china indonesia singapore malaysia people are moving toward a better lifestyle, buses, trains roads moving forward an we are going backwards. unfortunately this will only be a dream as our country has been sold....