Pakistan Going For J-11?

[Kamakazi 69]

Well that's a bit odd considering we don't have any carriers.
So all of our planes will have to be launched from land bases, so wont JF-17s accomplish the job required? Perhaps a variant of the Thunder optimized for the navy?

Or perhaps the naval versions of the J-7 which could be serviced partly from scavenging the PAF J-7s which will be retired by then?
Because lets face it, we aren't going to get something as advanced and expensive for our least funded arm?

 

[SBD-3]

Well that's a bit odd considering we don't have any carriers.
So all of our planes will have to be launched from land bases, so wont JF-17s accomplish the job required? Perhaps a variant of the Thunder optimized for the navy?

Or perhaps the naval versions of the J-7 which could be serviced partly from scavenging the PAF J-7s which will be retired by then?
Because lets face it, we aren't going to get something as advanced and expensive for our least funded arm?

brother PN will operate J-11 from Land bases J-11 is better suited for sea patrol rather than JF-17 which is more an interceptor and CAS aircraft J-11 will not only enhance sea patrol due to its greater range but will also enhance anti ship and air engagement capability
along with sea strike capability not achieved by JF due to lesser load and lesser range

 

[DaRk WaVe]

well Russia can do only one thing in this case......................Stop the engine supply..........Since Pakistan is not a direct Russian market so logically Russian should not have any objections and reservations on this issue......they can not sell anything to Pakistan because it will distort one of their biggest buyers....India.........if China sells J-11 to Pakistan..........India will make hue and cry..........as it always does....can't help itself................but only factor where India can try to influence the deal is asking the Russians to stop AL-31F to PAF but the reason for FC-20 delay (which uses the same engine) also seems the wait for WS-10A; Chinese equivalent of AL-31F.But reports also indicate the Russia has cleared the sale of AL-31F to PAF also so No chance for India to stop this.....

well Chinese are no doubt not doing very well in case of engines, even if they r able to make a copy it wont be as good as the russian one & i think Russikis dont want to disurb Indians, at least not for now, as MMRCA race is on, but who knows, story of RD-93 might be repeated

 

[SBD-3]

well Chinese are no doubt not doing very well in case of engines, even if they r able to make a copy it wont be as good as the russian one & i think Russikis dont want to disurb Indians, at least not for now, as MMRCA race is on, but who knows, story of RD-93 might be repeated

well it depends upon the results of MMRCA competition if Mig-35 and Griffon are not selected both will be potentially offered to PAF. I really like the MIG-35 anti AWACS capabilities.But Russia will not object on sale of AL-31F if MIG is not the winner.You have heard the word "Bhagtay Choor ke Langoti he sahe"
Russians do love money Indians know this fact

 

[Arsalan]

well Chinese are no doubt not doing very well in case of engines, even if they r able to make a copy it wont be as good as the russian one & i think Russikis dont want to disurb Indians, at least not for now, as MMRCA race is on, but who knows, story of RD-93 might be repeated

well again i have to say that do never forget the chines market for russian arms!
the chines and pakistan market together have twice the potential then the indian market. the accumulative spendings of china and pakistan exceeds twice the indian spendings so in Pak_china comeup with a joint deal russian wont be thinking twicw to accept it..
the JF17 engine is a classic example in this regards!
for upgraded engine for JF it will be again a pak-china-russian deal and wont ever say NO to chian under indian pressure. moreover the indina MRA deal will have an important part to play in Pakistans future option.
infactis our administration make the right decesions in this regard, the indian MRCA deal can turn out as a major breakthrough for Pakistam Military as we may see russian or the european market open to us..
no one is going to digest the the bitter taste of 12 billion dollar lost project just in the nae of friendship!!

regards!

 

[araz]

well again i have to say that do never forget the chines market for russian arms!
the chines and pakistan market together have twice the potential then the indian market. the accumulative spendings of china and pakistan exceeds twice the indian spendings so in Pak_china comeup with a joint deal russian wont be thinking twicw to accept it..
the JF17 engine is a classic example in this regards!
for upgraded engine for JF it will be again a pak-china-russian deal and wont ever say NO to chian under indian pressure. moreover the indina MRA deal will have an important part to play in Pakistans future option.
infactis our administration make the right decesions in this regard, the indian MRCA deal can turn out as a major breakthrough for Pakistam Military as we may see russian or the european market open to us..
no one is going to digest the the bitter taste of 12 billion dollar lost project just in the nae of friendship!!

regards!

Someone who knowsalot about planes and PAF said to me that J10 is PLAAF 'sbaby, they will add everything thatthey can on it. It may well include CFT. You never know with a bit of reorganization and CFT J10 might well be able to take over from J10 and develop the legs that it does not have.We will not be buying J10s today, in fact I dont see the order happenning till 2012, in which case there is 21/2 yrs for further developments. What will the chinese get up to in this period?
however the easy way out for PAF might well be to go for J11s and think of J10s when they have matured a bit.
Araz

 

[Arsalan]

Someone who knowsalot about planes and PAF said to me that J10 is PLAAF 'sbaby, they will add everything thatthey can on it. It may well include CFT. You never know with a bit of reorganization and CFT J10 might well be able to take over from J10 and develop the legs that it does not have.We will not be buying J10s today, in fact I dont see the order happenning till 2012, in which case there is 21/2 yrs for further developments. What will the chinese get up to in this period?
however the easy way out for PAF might well be to go for J11s and think of J10s when they have matured a bit.
Araz

exactly,
specially with eyes on the next generation, chines wont be reluctant to get as much experience of the next generation technologies to support there JXX venture...

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

exactly,
specially with eyes on the next generation, chines wont be reluctant to get as much experience of the next generation technologies to support there JXX venture...

regards!

I think JXX will be altogether a different beast.Look at Raptor;it's unique in shape as compared to eagle or SH so JXX might be somthing like "Rap" or something else not like J-10 so Chinese will have to start from 3 if not zero but dont expect the work to be started from 10 or 15 as popular thought

 

[araz]

exactly,
specially with eyes on the next generation, chines wont be reluctant to get as much experience of the next generation technologies to support there JXX venture...

regards!

I think there is a post from someone on Sino defence.today according to which there are maintenance issues with j11. If we go for J10s now, and there is a plan for a double engined J10, with the commonality of engines it might be more sensible to do it that way. However , this is all hear say and not confirmed. PAFs current thinking is on J10. This may well be how things go.
Araz

 

[Ababeel]

Is it comparable to Su-30 with india. I mean the engine or RADAR and avionics etc.

 

[Chinamilitary]

It's possible in future!

 

[Thomas]

Why not Pakistan cancel all Deals with Unitedstates including BS Govt talk on WOT with USA because US sell her Arms to India (F18 Super HORNET or F16z) ?

won't happen since Pakistan gets deep discounts. As well as in some cases surplus equipment is simply given to it as part of U.S. military aid.

 

[Arsalan]

I think there is a post from someone on Sino defence.today according to which there are maintenance issues with j11. If we go for J10s now, and there is a plan for a double engined J10, with the commonality of engines it might be more sensible to do it that way. However , this is all hear say and not confirmed. PAFs current thinking is on J10. This may well be how things go.
Araz

i guess i created some confusion in your mind by my post.
it was about a possibility of SC for j10 and for this i said that this may happen. i never mean to quote the second part of the statement and never meant that PAF will be better off to go for J11.
as a matter of fact, i have never been there big supporter!
J10 is the future, it is a true chines production and they are commited to it and may well take it to a next level wit introducing SC, TV nozzels and all that!
all in all, it is a yes for FC20z and a no for J11 in current situation!

i hope i made a clear statement this time and you will agree with it!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

I think JXX will be altogether a different beast.Look at Raptor;it's unique in shape as compared to eagle or SH so JXX might be somthing like "Rap" or something else not like J-10 so Chinese will have to start from 3 if not zero but dont expect the work to be started from 10 or 15 as popular thought

well friend is that you who nevr read the full post before replying or is that me who never make you understand what am trying to say!!

the JXX will be something new and a J10 being developed into a fifth generation plane is nothing but BS!
all i said that the chines wont be reluctant to get some experience in systems that are part and parcel of fifth generation planes. these include SC and high manuverability via TV!!
these are the two systems that if they van onduct on some existing plane of there will helpthem get experience for next generation plane that will surely include these two feature!!
i hope by grade of God i am able to make you understand what exactly i am saying!!

regards!

 

[Hunter911]

Their have been rumors in circulation within naval circles (one of which is my source) that Pakistan is very closely looking at procuring the J-11 for the Naval aviation arm. This would be a major boost to the Pakistani navy's range of operations and capability, since the chinese flanker could carry upto 4-5 ASM. The russian connection for the engines has already been delt with and the russians have cleared orders.

Comparison of Chinese J-11 and Indian Mig

J-11
Crew: 1
Length: 21.9 m (72 ft 0 in)
Wingspan: 14.70 m (48 ft 3 in)
Height: 5.92 m (19 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 62.04 m² (667.8 ft²)
Empty weight: 16,380 kg (36,110 lb)
Loaded weight: 23,140 kg (51,010 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 33,000 kg (73,000 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Lyulka AL-31F or Woshan WS-10A "Taihang" turbofans
Dry thrust: 74.5 kN / 89.17 kN (16,800 lbf / 20,050 lbf)[9] each
Thrust with afterburner: 123 kN / 129.4 kN (27,600 lbf / 29,101 lbf) [10] each
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,600 mph)
Range: 3,720 km (2,010 nm, 2,310 mi)
Combat radius: 2,000 km (1,240 mi)
Service ceiling: 19,000 m (62,523 ft)
Rate of climb: >325 m/s (64,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 371.0 kg/m² (76 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight:
Dry: 0.66
With afterburner: 1.09
G-limit: 9 g
Armament


Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-1 cannon
Hardpoints: 10: 2 under fuselage, 2 under air ducts, 4 under wings, 2 on wingtips with provisions to carry combinations of:
Missiles:

PL-12
PL-9
PL-8
Vympel R-27
Vympel R-77
Vympel R-73
Rockets: Unguided rocket launcher
Bombs: Free-fall cluster bombs
Avionics


Fire-control radar: NIIP Tikhomirov N001VE Myech coherent pulse Doppler radar
OEPS-27 electro-optic system
NSts-27 helmet-mounted sight (HMS)
Gardeniya ECM pods

MIG 29

Crew: One
Length: 17.37 m (57 ft)
Wingspan: 11.4 m (37 ft 3 in)
Height: 4.73 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 38 m² (409 ft²)
Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
Loaded weight: 16,800 kg (37,000 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 21,000 kg (46,300 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Klimov RD-33 afterburning turbofans, 8,300 kgf (81.4 kN, 18,300 lbf) each
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h, 1,490 mph) At low altitude: 1,500 km/h, 930 mph
Range: 700 km (430 mi)
Ferry range: 2,100 km (1,800 mi) with 1 drop tank
Service ceiling: 18,013 m (59,100 ft)
Rate of climb: initial 330 m/s average 109 m/s 0-6000 m[90] (65,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 442 kg/m² (90.5 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.13
Armament


1x 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 100 rounds
Up to 3,500 kg (7,720 lb) of weapons including six air-to-air missiles — a mix of semi-active radar homing (SARH) and AA-8 "Aphid", AA-10 "Alamo", AA-11 "Archer", AA-12 "Adder", FAB 500-M62, FAB-1000, TN-100, ECM Pods, S-24, AS-12, AS-14.
Avionics


Phazotron N019, N010 radars

J-11A or J-11B?
J-10B is a big toy.Although it is not the standard fourth generation of fighter aircraft.But, it is absolutely a epoch-making symbol to the Pakistani Air force .