Pakistan First ! The case for Pakistani Nationalism.

[Baibars_1260]

You seem vociferous in your defence of indian so called "Muslims".

Do I really have to explain my actions?
I have defended Hindu minorities on the Bangladeshi web site too and I chased out a notorious Parsi "doctor " misrepresenting Pakistan and Pakistani Muslims to Iranians.
I have chased out RSS thugs from this forum too.
I understand your animosity towards Indian Muslims in UK since they usually match Pakistanis and Hindu Indians in achievements. Their snooty attitude irks me sometimes too. In North America this is not the case. We enjoy a very good relationship. Had I been living in West Bromwich I would have been irritated at Indian Muslims too. But they speak good Urdu, are well educated and otherwise make good company. Don't you think so?

 

[waz]

You definitely have no contact with young Pakistanis living in London, Luton or the South East of England. What you said above was true 10, 20 years ago and before that. The above no longer holds true.

In London I have even witnessed, Pakistani/Brazilian and Pakistani/German marriages.

Not sure about the Pak other nations, but fourth/fifth generation Pakistanis marrying Iranian and Afghan second generation boys and girls is more and more common. I've seen a fair few myself usually Pakistani and Afghan.

 

[Progressive1]

Are you of indian origin yourself?

people who are most wary of nativist nationalism in Pakistan are not from outside but descendents of Altaf bhai in inside , i think they feel ousted.

 

[Syed1.]

people who are most wary of nativist nationalism in Pakistan are not from outside but descendents of Altaf bhai in inside , i think they feel ousted.

What is that supposed to mean?


You are accusing Urdu speakers/mujahirs of being unpatriotic?



Munnay I don't know how old you are but I'm sure you celebrate Abhinandan's shooting down and humiliation Pakistan dished out to India, but guess what the guy who shot him down Hassan Siddiqui was an Urdu speaker from Karachi.


Watch what comes out of your mouth.

 

[lafete]

Thanks
Is there an Islamic state anywhere today? You said in your previous post there isn't any.
So taking your rules for living in a non-Islamic state.

1). You were born in that country - that is your land
73 years back all Pakistanis were citizens of a united India which was
non-Islamic and were born there.
So we should have continued living as Indians

2) You are in that state to help Islam.
So once again that applies to Indian Muslims because they are helping Islam, The two most important Islamic seminaries , Darul Uloom Deoband, and Nadwatul Uloom, are located in that territory and the Partition did not leave a single traditional school of the Uloom in either Pakistan or Bangladesh.

3) You are in that state to acquire knowledge.

Once again, that applies to Indian Muslims because the foremost Muslim universities, where knowledge is acquired are Jamia Milllia Islamia, Aligarh Muslim University, Hamdard Tibbi University, Osmania University, Darul Rashad, are all located in the non-Islamic Hindu region.The Khuda Baksh Library, and Madarsa e Shamshul Huda, with its rare manuscripts going back 1000 years is also located in a non-Islamic Hindu region.
90% of the Islamic documentation of the region going back 1000 years and the works of Maulana Shibli Nomani, Ashraf Thanvi, Syed Sulaiman Nadvi are all located here with three schools of fiq and a Darul Qaza located in all provinces. There is also an Emarat e Shariah with branches in all provinces as well as the common funded Auqaf to sponsor students studying in all major disciplines of science and technology. The Maulana Azad Medical College and the Jamia Millia School of Engineering turn out top rated doctors and engineers. The Jamia Millia school of Mass Communications, Media and Journalism produces top notch TV journalists.

AMU leads the region in Geology and Petroleum engineering, eye surgery and a host of other medical disciplines.

There are no parallels to Dar ul Uloom Deoband anywhere in Pakistan. Not a single Pakistani educated Muslim scholar or theologian has published any work of significance. Even Tahir Qadri comes nowhere close to Indian educated Maulana Maududi and Shibli Nomani.

So my question is why Pakistan ? Why was Pakistan created when Muslims were full filling all the above reasons for residing in a non-Islamic state.




Agreed, so lets dump all the culture before 1500 years and we can advise the Saudi Arabs to stop sniffing the bakhoose.



Ok, so Christianity got diluted by the cultures of the region it was adopted. So Islamic culture lies in the Hejaz, so let's dance with swords, sniff bakhoos, drink camel milk, and put a whole roasted sheep in a tray and pluck the eyes out of the head and eat it . Also we must learn to ululate at weddings, marry and divorce as many times we want as long as we keep four wives, and also keep slaves. We will try convict and behead by laws of Qasas according to the Hambali firqah and abolish district, high courts and supreme courts. Better still we can simply surrender our country to a certain Arab bedouin tribe the House of Saud to rule us because after all, they are of the Ummah and what is more they are the Khadim Al Harmain Sharifain,
The best way to kickstart an Ummah would be to hand over our territories to the Aley Saud.
Why Pakistan?

First of all understand that Arabic culture existed long before Islam. It was a primitive culture, much more primitive than the cultures of the sub continent (burying daughters alive, shooting arrows and running after birds before making important decisions - act of divination, etc.). Arabs were the joke of the world, called gypsy's and lizard eaters. Islam had a reforming effect. It removed the primitiveness in the culture and gave it an Islamic soul. It is the strength of a culture that makes a people rise. Arabs became the leaders of the world.

Islam did the same with Turkish and Persian cultures. These are all cultures with an Islamic soul now - the west calls them Islamic cultures. Valima's are celebrated everywhere. Egyptians were people who were written off. Their golden days were considered to be during the pharaohs. Islam made them a force again, giving them an empire the pharaohs could not have even dreamed off. Same story with the Persians and the Turks, who were both given second chances and large empires.

Why Islam did not have the same effect on sub continent cultures? Why did we not get a chance to become top dog? Or get our moment in the sun and shine? During the periods of Islamic golden age, 6th century to 17th century, the Persians, Arabs, Turks contributed enormously to human intellect. They revived philosophy, science and arts - even the non Muslims agree that Islam ended the European dark ages (primarily due to Almighty's assistance in: Iqra bismi rabikalazi khalaq). During this period, when Islam was ruling the sub-continent also (7th century to 17th century) what contribution did the folks in the sub continent provide to the human intellect. Why were we not as successful as the Turks, Persians and Arabs?

You did not answer the question I asked: "Now, the question for you is what is the added benefit from Allah for those pious people living in an Islamic state - What does Allah give them which he does not give others? What worldly benefit do you gain from living in an Islamic state?"

The answer is knowledge - the cause of wealth, power and influence.

What did we do so wrong, that the the one who gives knowledge, didn't give us anything? And we remained in the 5000 year long state of humiliation?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Do I really have to explain my actions?
I have defended Hindu minorities on the Bangladeshi web site too and I chased out a notorious Parsi "doctor " misrepresenting Pakistan and Pakistani Muslims to Iranians.
I have chased out RSS thugs from this forum too.
I understand your animosity towards Indian Muslims in UK since they usually match Pakistanis and Hindu Indians in achievements. Their snooty attitude irks me sometimes too. In North America this is not the case. We enjoy a very good relationship. Had I been living in West Bromwich I would have been irritated at Indian Muslims too. But they speak good Urdu, are well educated and otherwise make good company. Don't you think so?

TBH the last time I came across indian Muslims was about 17 years ago. I honestly can't tell the difference between them and normal hindu indians. I also find it difficult to relate to or feel empathetic towards them. I find them very alien.

Not sure about the Pak other nations, but fourth/fifth Pakistanis marrying Iranian and Afghan second generation boys and girls is more and more common. I've seen a fair few myself usually Pakistani and Afghan.

I have seen it a lot too. Especially over the past 5 years. Non-London based people are not aware of this reality.

people who are most wary of nativist nationalism in Pakistan are not from outside but descendents of Altaf bhai in inside , i think they feel ousted.

Notice how upset they are that we are not indian hindu slaves..................

 

[Baibars_1260]

[

TBH the last time I came across indian Muslims was about 17 years ago. I honestly can't tell the difference between them and normal hindu indians. I also find it difficult to relate to or feel empathetic towards them. I find them very alien.

Good point!
Pakistanis and India Muslims both look different to each other.

" Can't tell the difference between Pakistanis and Hindus "

This exactly what an Indian Muslim I met in U .K. told me about his impressions of Pakistanis .
Speaking about Pakistani Punjabis ( rural types) he said :,

" They are very much like the Sikhs and Hindus we have back in India.
They fold their hands Hindu style raised to their foreheads, look upwards and say " Hai Rabba" exactly like Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. We Muslims cup our hands and raise them and say Ya Rabb or Ya Rabb ul Alameen ."
He continued (referring to a video of Alam Lohar singing the "Jugni").

"I can't understand why they use a chimta ( tongs ) and click it while dancing and singing. Our Hindu Sadhus do the same and we call it "Tandav" and the Pakistanis call it "Jugni"
Then he said:
"Then there is this Basant festival where all the ladies get clad in Yellow clothes and fly kites .
Just like Hindu Punjabis back home observe the Lohri festival."

"Look at their songs:
'Lal Mori pag rakhyio bala Jhule Lallan , Singri da Ali Shahbaz Qalandar ' Actually equating a Hindu saint demigod Jhule Lallan with Hazrat Ali."
"The Pathans can barely speak Urdu...and the Sindhis fold their hands too, just like the Hindu Sindhi refugees back home "

I stopped him right there...reacting strongly..
"Enough...You don't understand our culture...and I don't have time to explain it to you, The Ashraf Urdu culture of Western UP and Delhi is not universal. Pakistanis are as devout Muslims as any other. get to know our culture then make comments ."

He shrugged his shoulders and moved on with a last comment:
"They can't pronounce the "qaf " sound as in " Iqbal"..,,"

There are culture shocks, Indian Muslims are snooty and haven't bothered to study Pakistani culture.
The chaste Persianized Urdu culture of the Ashraf, Western UP , Delhi, Bihar, CP , and Calcutta Muslims makes them like that.

 

[Progressive1]

What is that supposed to mean?


You are accusing Urdu speakers/mujahirs of being unpatriotic?



Munnay I don't know how old you are but I'm sure you celebrate Abhinandan's shooting down and humiliation Pakistan dished out to India, but guess what the guy who shot him down Hassan Siddiqui was an Urdu speaker from Karachi.


Watch what comes out of your mouth.

bro i love all pakistanis.

[

Good point!
Pakistanis and India Muslims both look different to each other.

" Can't tell the difference between Pakistanis and Hindus "

This exactly what an Indian Muslim I met in U .K. told me about his impressions of Pakistanis .
Speaking about Pakistani Punjabis ( rural types) he said :,

" They are very much like the Sikhs and Hindus we have back in India.
They fold their hands Hindu style raised to their foreheads, look upwards and say " Hai Rabba" exactly like Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. We Muslims cup our hands and raise them and say Ya Rabb or Ya Rabb ul Alameen ."
He continued (referring to a video of Alam Lohar singing the "Jugni").

"I can't understand why they use a chimta ( tongs ) and click it while dancing and singing. Our Hindu Sadhus do the same and we call it "Tandav" and the Pakistanis call it "Jugni"
Then he said:
"Then there is this Basant festival where all the ladies get clad in Yellow clothes and fly kites .
Just like Hindu Punjabis back home observe the Lohri festival."

"Look at their songs:
'Lal Mori pag rakhyio bala Jhule Lallan , Singri da Ali Shahbaz Qalandar ' Actually equating a Hindu saint demigod Jhule Lallan with Hazrat Ali."
"The Pathans can barely speak Urdu...and the Sindhis fold their hands too, just like the Hindu Sindhi refugees back home "

I stopped him right there...reacting strongly..
"Enough...You don't understand our culture...and I don't have time to explain it to you, The Ashraf Urdu culture of Western UP and Delhi is not universal. Pakistanis are as devout Muslims as any other. get to know our culture then make comments ."

He shrugged his shoulders and moved on with a last comment:
"They can't pronounce the "qaf " sound as in " Iqbal"..,,"

There are culture shocks, Indian Muslims are snooty and haven't bothered to study Pakistani culture.
The chaste Persianized Urdu culture of the Ashraf, Western UP , Delhi, Bihar, CP , and Calcutta Muslims makes them like that.

bro we obviously have similarities with other south asians , but we should also keep our indivisuality to a degree as well , I am very against Pakistanis who try to disconnect it from other south asian countries as we will not only loose a large market but also lot of soft power( from my experience there is lot of admiration for pakistani beauty/culture among other south asians). We should also keep a link to middle east and central asia as well. Basically we should be doing whatever is in our interest while keeping our uniqueness.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

[

Good point!
Pakistanis and India Muslims both look different to each other.

" Can't tell the difference between Pakistanis and Hindus "

This exactly what an Indian Muslim I met in U .K. told me about his impressions of Pakistanis .
Speaking about Pakistani Punjabis ( rural types) he said :,

" They are very much like the Sikhs and Hindus we have back in India.
They fold their hands Hindu style raised to their foreheads, look upwards and say " Hai Rabba" exactly like Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. We Muslims cup our hands and raise them and say Ya Rabb or Ya Rabb ul Alameen ."
He continued (referring to a video of Alam Lohar singing the "Jugni").

"I can't understand why they use a chimta ( tongs ) and click it while dancing and singing. Our Hindu Sadhus do the same and we call it "Tandav" and the Pakistanis call it "Jugni"
Then he said:
"Then there is this Basant festival where all the ladies get clad in Yellow clothes and fly kites .
Just like Hindu Punjabis back home observe the Lohri festival."

"Look at their songs:
'Lal Mori pag rakhyio bala Jhule Lallan , Singri da Ali Shahbaz Qalandar ' Actually equating a Hindu saint demigod Jhule Lallan with Hazrat Ali."
"The Pathans can barely speak Urdu...and the Sindhis fold their hands too, just like the Hindu Sindhi refugees back home "

I stopped him right there...reacting strongly..
"Enough...You don't understand our culture...and I don't have time to explain it to you, The Ashraf Urdu culture of Western UP and Delhi is not universal. Pakistanis are as devout Muslims as any other. get to know our culture then make comments ."

He shrugged his shoulders and moved on with a last comment:
"They can't pronounce the "qaf " sound as in " Iqbal"..,,"

There are culture shocks, Indian Muslims are snooty and haven't bothered to study Pakistani culture.
The chaste Persianized Urdu culture of the Ashraf, Western UP , Delhi, Bihar, CP , and Calcutta Muslims makes them like that.

TBH I couldn't give a damn what indian so called "Muslims" think or feel about Pakistan or Pakistanis. They are a worthless people who mean nothing to me. Half of them are too weak and helpless to stop their women from becoming sex-slaves of sanghis whilst the other half either are all converting to hinduism or worshiping indian hindus.




PS Are you being serious when you said your alleged indian so called "Muslim" friend believed that Pakistanis are more similar to indian hindus and sikhs than indian so called "Muslims" are??????????????????...........................................................................errrrh okay. If you say so................... It's like saying Iranian Kurds believe that Persian Iranians are more similar to Pakistani Shias than Iranian Kurds......................

If you are going to make up fairy tales then try at least make them realistic or plausible........................

PS You are very touchy about any criticism of indian so called "Mulslims". I wonder why???????????.......................

 

[Cliftonite]

people who are most wary of nativist nationalism in Pakistan are not from outside but descendents of Altaf bhai in inside , i think they feel ousted.

Descendants of Altaf bhai don't have the level of hate for you guys that you have amongst each other. We ain't got sh*t on the level of hate the Pashtuns hold for you Punjabis. Or the Baloch do for you. Or the Punjabi Jhangvi does for the Punjabi Shia.

Most well off Muhajirs are emigrating out anyways. You'll have to find another scapegoat for your sh*tholes.

 

[Baibars_1260]

TBH I couldn't give a damn what indian so called "Muslims" think or feel about Pakistan or Pakistanis. They are a worthless people who mean nothing to me. Half of them are too weak and helpless to stop their women from becoming sex-slaves of sanghis whilst the other half either are converting to hinduism or worshiping indian hindus.

Correct! Our focus should be Pakistan First ( Title of this thread! )
Indian Muslims are "worthless" converts.
But here is something I need your comments on..
There was a man called Jina Poonja and his wife Mithibai who were Lohana Rajputs (subcaste of dhudhi rajputs) from Paneli Moti village in Gondal state in Kathiawar in Gujarat, Indian The Lohana Rajputs converted from Hinduism to the Ismaili Khoja faith. Poonja and Mithi had a son .
Guess who he was?

Doesn't Poonja look like a Hindu

Don't know if his son was a "hindu slave also "

 

[Cliftonite]

[

Good point!
Pakistanis and India Muslims both look different to each other.

" Can't tell the difference between Pakistanis and Hindus "

This exactly what an Indian Muslim I met in U .K. told me about his impressions of Pakistanis .
Speaking about Pakistani Punjabis ( rural types) he said :,

" They are very much like the Sikhs and Hindus we have back in India.
They fold their hands Hindu style raised to their foreheads, look upwards and say " Hai Rabba" exactly like Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. We Muslims cup our hands and raise them and say Ya Rabb or Ya Rabb ul Alameen ."
He continued (referring to a video of Alam Lohar singing the "Jugni").

"I can't understand why they use a chimta ( tongs ) and click it while dancing and singing. Our Hindu Sadhus do the same and we call it "Tandav" and the Pakistanis call it "Jugni"
Then he said:
"Then there is this Basant festival where all the ladies get clad in Yellow clothes and fly kites .
Just like Hindu Punjabis back home observe the Lohri festival."

"Look at their songs:
'Lal Mori pag rakhyio bala Jhule Lallan , Singri da Ali Shahbaz Qalandar ' Actually equating a Hindu saint demigod Jhule Lallan with Hazrat Ali."
"The Pathans can barely speak Urdu...and the Sindhis fold their hands too, just like the Hindu Sindhi refugees back home "

I stopped him right there...reacting strongly..
"Enough...You don't understand our culture...and I don't have time to explain it to you, The Ashraf Urdu culture of Western UP and Delhi is not universal. Pakistanis are as devout Muslims as any other. get to know our culture then make comments ."

He shrugged his shoulders and moved on with a last comment:
"They can't pronounce the "qaf " sound as in " Iqbal"..,,"

There are culture shocks, Indian Muslims are snooty and haven't bothered to study Pakistani culture.
The chaste Persianized Urdu culture of the Ashraf, Western UP , Delhi, Bihar, CP , and Calcutta Muslims makes them like that.

Let me drop another truth bomb. Indus de puttar uthte bethte hum Muhajiron ko zaleel karay tou hum kyun lihaaz karein?

The people of West Pakistan are feudal, patriarchal and communal. They aren't any different than the mustache twirling Thakurs of UP and Rajasthan and the warlords of Afghanistan. The only evolved natives are the Gilgit Baltistanis and Dardic people of Northern Areas.

While the Sikhs and Sindhi Hindus have moved ahead and modernized, the Sindhi and Punjabi of Pakistan are still living in their regressive feudal cultures.

The loss of East Pakistan was a huge loss for us. The Bengalis were more egalitarian and that's the reason they're doing much better than us.

Kashmiris from the Valley don't want to join us because they know how regressive we are. They are much more evolved and modernized than us.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Let me drop another truth bomb. Indus de puttar uthte bethte hum Muhajiron ko zaleel karay tou hum kyun lihaaz karein?

The people of West Pakistan are feudal, patriarchal and communal. They aren't any different than the mustache twirling Thakurs of UP and Rajasthan and the warlords of Afghanistan. The only evolved natives are the Gilgit Baltistanis and Dardic people of Northern Areas.

While the Sikhs and Sindhi Hindus have moved ahead and modernized, the Sindhi and Punjabi of Pakistan are still living in their regressive feudal cultures.

The loss of East Pakistan was a huge loss for us. The Bengalis were more egalitarian and that's the reason they're doing much better than us.

Kashmiris from the Valley don't want to join us because they know how regressive we are. They are much more evolved and modernized than us.

So says the indian false flagger who worships sanghis on PDF.......... :

 

[Cliftonite]

So says the indian false flagger who worships sanghis on PDF.......... :

View attachment 709547

The Potohari-Punjabi tries to portray himself as the most patriotic. Even though its him who caused our country's breakup in 1971. I love how no one can question that.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Descendants of Altaf bhai don't have the level of hate for you guys that you have amongst each other. We ain't got sh*t on the level of hate the Pashtuns hold for you Punjabis. Or the Baloch do for you. Or the Punjabi Jhangvi does for the Punjabi Shia.

Most well off Muhajirs are emigrating out anyways. You'll have to find another scapegoat for your sh*tholes.

Cliftonite, read my post on Poonja above. I don't think our friend knows what I am talking about. Could you drop a hint?

Let me drop another truth bomb. Indus de puttar uthte bethte hum Muhajiron ko zaleel karay tou hum kyun lihaaz karein?

The people of West Pakistan are feudal, patriarchal and communal. They aren't any different than the mustache twirling Thakurs of UP and Rajasthan and the warlords of Afghanistan. The only evolved natives are the Gilgit Baltistanis and Dardic people of Northern Areas.

While the Sikhs and Sindhi Hindus have moved ahead and modernized, the Sindhi and Punjabi of Pakistan are still living in their regressive feudal cultures.

The loss of East Pakistan was a huge loss for us. The Bengalis were more egalitarian and that's the reason they're doing much better than us.

Kashmiris from the Valley don't want to join us because they know how regressive we are. They are much more evolved and modernized than us.

You always miss my sarcasm
I always push "logic" to the extreme
till it becomes as Spock would say "illogical ".
My post on Ashraf is genuine, but sarcastic.