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Pakistan faces 26/11 everyday: Mani Shankar Aiyar

Roybot - mate - you are asking the wrong person for what the solution is.

Here is my observation on my interactions with Joe sir on few issues - he is good at explaining the past events and is knowledgeable about different events but ask him a question about some issue which need a solution - I have seen him give some non-practical response.

Few examples - ask him to take a pick - BJP vs Congress - he does not like both but does not say what is the alternative.
Ask him about the uniform civil code - his response is to educate all the youth and bring one(mind it not when the educated achieve a majority but only when all religious groups are educated) or he would raise the point on what prevents people to use the non-religious civil code for marriages.

No. The answer is simpler than that. I refuse to support the Jan Sanghi alternative, which is what bothers you. Look at the choices above: BJP vs. Congress? Uniform Civil Code? I refuse to back the BJP, and I refuse to back the Uniform Civil Code.

How blunt do you want it?
 
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....With Gandhi, they had no response...

What did Gandhi do magically post WWII that he did not do pre-WWII ?

Anyway this can be debated till the cows come home as you have said and I see no point in taking this any further.
 
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@Joe Shearer ,

its stupid of u to assume that the court, without support of the Indian state, allowed Dr. Chisty to go home to Pakistan . The court surely had taken the views of a pliable persecution side , here, the state ,before granting him bail and more move his travel to Pakistan would have been impossible without the consent of the Indian govt.

It's stupid of you to comment without reading the court judgement on the subject. But your shakha probably does not permit such banned material to be distributed.
 
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No. The answer is simpler than that. I refuse to support the Jan Sanghi alternative, which is what bothers you. Look at the choices above: BJP vs. Congress? Uniform Civil Code? I refuse to back the BJP, and I refuse to back the Uniform Civil Code.

How blunt do you want it?

That is not the problem. Everyone knows your opinion. But what alternative do you have in mind ? No Congress. No BJP. Fine. Then whom... SP ? Communists ? Military dictator ? Anarchy ?

Repeating your words, what is your solution ? Answer - you have none.

And why do you oppose Uniform Civil Code ? Dont want secularism, eh ?
 
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Don't be insane by calling me something of stupidly. That does not make you a better being and this is not the first time from you.

The reason Why I am asking for release is, Sarabjit has spent almost 20 years in prison and that is almost two life terms, Indian SC ordered DR. Chisti release on humanitarian ground he served 20 years in India.

Sarabjit has already served 20 years in Pakistan and his mercy petition is in pakistan president's hand so asking pakistan to reciprocate on humanitarian ground is not idiotic (ignorant fool like you who always read the words of the post with out undersanding the real reasons behind it).

You are trying to find the logic in my post to prove me wrong which is utter non sense in this case as this case is pending with Pakistan president on humanitarian grounds.

Try to find some amateur to make your reasoning and win over him.

One is a convicted criminal, convicted of murder. His crime was against a person. The other is a convicted spy, convicted of espionage, whose crime is against the state.

I called you stupid. Wrong word. You are worse than that.
 
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That is not the problem. Everyone knows your opinion. But what alternative do you have in mind ? No Congress. No BJP. Fine. Then whom... SP ? Communists ? Military dictator ? Anarchy ?

Repeating your words, what is your solution ? Answer - you have none.

And why do you oppose Uniform Civil Code ? Dont want secularism, eh ?

Why do you need a cut and dried solution to a situation that has never occurred ever before in the world? Why not let the electorate work it out, over decades if need be?

Should I tell you why?

It is because instinctively you are a fascist. Look up the work of a man called Adorno; you are somewhere in the west: take the California F-Test. Be prepared to learn unpleasant things. For the record, I have taken the test in my 20s, and came out sharply anti-fascist.

Your support for the BJP is only partly based on religious affinity, the political appeal is also very prominent. They are a party with contempt for the law, dependent wholly on going beyond the reach of legislation and of parliamentary procedure to get its way. Look up the article on the F-Test before going further.
 
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Why do you need a cut and dried solution to a situation that has never occurred ever before in the world? Why not let the electorate work it out, over decades if need be?

That is deflection and disingenuity of the highest order. Cut out the morose verbiage please. In short, you dont have an answer. For 2014, you dont have an answer. Period. All these words of "let the electorate work itself out" is just to mask that inability to spell out a solution when called.


It is because instinctively you are a fascist.

The last thing I would be doing is asking for a character certificate from anybody out here. So lets concentrate on the topic and leave out the psycho-analysis of each other out. The imposition of western definitions of fascism onto the Indian context without taking into account the different conditions is a stupidity deserving a smack in its own right. But we shall not go into that.


Your support for the BJP is only partly based on religious affinity. the political appeal is also very prominent. They are a party with contempt for the law, dependent wholly on going beyond the reach of legislation and of parliamentary procedure to get its way. Look up the article on the F-Test before going further.


Again, no one asked you my reasons or anybody else's affinity towards BJP or any other org. That is my personal choice and you dont get to decide for me.

All I asked was a solution to the existing problem which you clearly dont have. criticism any body can make. Solutions, only a few can give. You, sir, are only good at the former or maybe not even that because of an institutional bias in your criticism. And such critics, without a solution, are dime a dozen.
 
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take the California F-Test. Be prepared to learn unpleasant things.

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Except the American part, I believe its true to my nature. I guess you came out as a liberal airhead ?
 
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That is deflection and disingenuity of the highest order. Cut out the morose verbiage please. In short, you dont have an answer. For 2014, you dont have an answer. Period. All these words of "let the electorate work itself out" is just to mask to that inability to spell out a solution when called.(1)

The last thing I would be doing is asking for a character certificate from anybody out here. So lets concentrate on the topic and leave out the psycho-analysis of each other out. The imposition of western definitions of fascism onto the Indian context without taking into account the different conditions is a stupidity deserving a smack in its own right. But we shall not go into that.(2)

Again, no one asked you my reasons or anybody else's affinity towards BJP or any other org. That is my personal choice and you dont get to decide for me.(3)

All I asked was a solution to the existing problem which you clearly dont have. criticism any body can make. Solutions, only a few can give. You, sir, are only good at the former. And such critics, without a solution, are dime a dozen.(4)

(1) You fail to see, not unexpectedly, that the habit and practice of handing down 'answers' is only dictatorial. Only a people can decide, from the options offered by the political organisations competing for its attention, what is right and what is wrong, not some master figure on high.

That does not mean that I do not see where the trend is going and what is happening in India. We are clearly no longer ready to accept India-wide parties with India-wide programmes, which ignore local problems and specific development. That trend is clear, and it is clear that a series of regional solutions will be evolved on every aspect, on economics, on jobs and employment creation, on education, and on civic administration and governance. They will be different because the problems of Mumbai are different from the problems of Bengaluru, and those are both different from the problems of Yamunanagar or Saharanpur or Kolkata. Issues which seem important to ideologues and to bigots are gradually losing importance, as people gradually begin to realise that their problems will not go away if a Uniform Civil Code is applied, and one community brought to heel by majoritarian pressure.

If in Nitish Kumar's administration, young girls cycle safely and happily to school, and the crime rate has gone down, his policies will prevail, and it does not matter what they looked like at the outset, especially as he has made his sharp aversion to communalism clear. If in Mamata Bannerjee's administration, nothing moves except the CM's cavalcade, and industry leaves the state at an even faster pace than under the Communists, then she will be dumped, and another party - the Congress? the Communists? - will be brought back.

It is this that I keep talking about, that we do not need headlines and little tinpot dictators - no names, so no offence - strutting about informing everybody that they have the solution, and it is the magic formula to build the nation. We need more of the same that has distinguished us from our neighbours, the democratic process.

(2) Unfortunately, you have commented without any awareness of that test and what it seeks to establish. You might have been more circumspect otherwise. That test establishes links between personality traits and political belief. It was integral to my reply that some personalities, yours for instance, are not tuned to democractic process and can never understand ambiguity or diffuseness, but must always seek a hard, final solution. Like Hitler offered, and before him, Mussolini.

And considering that we are in some discussions arguing about the Uniform Civil Code, your muscular rejection of western definitions of fascism in an Indian context without taking into account the different conditions is downright laughable. Why do you think the British judges refused to apply a uniform code to a diverse country, and why do you think that civil and criminal law other than personal law in India is uniform? If you had the background and the information, you would have figured out that a legal system from a completely uniform country with regard to its religion and its personal laws cannot fit a completely diverse country without making exceptions.

But then, if the matter was so simple, we would not have people making political judgements based on the sound that a jack-boot makes on the pavement, rather than by application of mind.

(3) No, I don't get to choose for you. I do get to evaluate the danger that you and your battalion represent to the country.

(4) It is precisely this thinking that I deplore and oppose. Solutions are too sensitive to be left to the few. It is the obsession of the fascist mind-set to wish to solve problems out of the head of the great leader. It is precisely that mistake that lies at the bottom of every school-boyish request to me to offer 'my' solutions. What solutions? The people will decide. The people have always decided. The people will always decide. Unless a fascist comes to power with his solutions coming from the chosen few.

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Except the American part, I believe its true to my nature. I guess you came out as a liberal airhead ?

I didn't ask you for your score, and have no intention of sharing mine, except to say that it was eminently satisfactory. :D
 
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And, incidentally, the day I stand for election, I will have a clear manifesto, consistent with whichever party ticket I get, but personalised to represent my beliefs and principles. Until that time, this business of exchanging 'solutions' among each other on a defence forum discussion represents intellectual Onanism of the cheapest variety.
 
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@KS: My F-score is 3.5
:lol: you are more liberal than me. May be there should be a separate set of questions to Indians.
 
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And, incidentally, the day I stand for election, I will have a clear manifesto, consistent with whichever party ticket I get, but personalised to represent my beliefs and principles. Until that time, this business of exchanging 'solutions' among each other on a defence forum discussion represents intellectual Onanism of the cheapest variety.
No dude. This is good that you guys are fighting and discussing things. It actually helps you to solidify your stances by subjecting them to tests that the other guys throw at you.

Btw it is not true that the people decide. Decisions are taken by leaders and leaders only. People just express their trust in leaders or their gratitude for the notes. Leaders are the ones that counter each other and compromise.
I would rather have you guys argue more and more. I would like to hear more from KS about what to do with Indian muslims who refuse contraception, about those Indians who don't want to be Indians(some of them muslim) and about what he thinks should be a solution to Kashmir.
 
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Knowing what the test is about has been shown to make a difference.
Understandable. But the problem with our scores is probably not that. Put in questions based on the pet peeves of Indian right wingers. They can even be very blunt. We are too emotional to not pick our choice.
Do you want a dictatorship in India? I have many friends who will answer yes.
 
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No. The answer is simpler than that. I refuse to support the Jan Sanghi alternative, which is what bothers you. Look at the choices above: BJP vs. Congress? Uniform Civil Code? I refuse to back the BJP, and I refuse to back the Uniform Civil Code.

How blunt do you want it?

Please do not draw the conclusion on my behalf. Reading through some of your responses above, you have again come up with paragraphs of pompous meaningless drivel and ended with a soft blasphemy BS in your own typical fashion on folks who have clear thoughts and understanding on what is needed for India(and it does not matter whether it is right or wrong). Fortunately your ilk are becoming less in numbers and more seen among the past generations while the younger ones perform their,in your words, "intellectual Onanism", which I feel is a good thing as they refine their thoughts and ideas and will be leading to the new awakening and strengthening of the democracy in India as they can pick someone to lead the country/state who reflect their thoughts. You have reinforced my thoughts again that you are the kind who is clueless on what is needed for India and would rather sit at home(and not vote as is the case with numerous middle class citizens) allowing the manipulated electorates vote for the corrupt politicians owing to a false loyalty bought by the money and liquor.

P.S - Pardon me if I do not respond to your posts as I feel it is worthless though you are a good "historian" explaining past events and good for reading. And pardon me for being so blunt as I felt any sweetcoating of the words will not convey the message in the way I wanted it conveyed.
 
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