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Pakistan faces 26/11 everyday: Mani Shankar Aiyar

@KS: My F-score is 3.5
:lol: you are more liberal than me. May be there should be a separate set of questions to Indians.

Maybe because I have no illwill towards homosexuals and accept them as natural which you might have failed. :angel:


And this is the precise reason why I said the western definitions of fascism etc dont apply to the Indian context.
 
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I would like to hear more from KS about what to do with Indian muslims who refuse contraception, about those Indians who don't want to be Indians(some of them muslim) and about what he thinks should be a solution to Kashmir.

Those who refuse contraception (whether Hindus, Muslims or Christians) - There should be a law which mandates that ration card would have only the first two children along with the parents and not the subsequent ones. The individual families are free to beget as many as they want according to their social,religious or economic conditions but only two would be entered in the ration card. So reservation, passport and all the legal documents which require ration card as proof would be out of reach for the others..i.e., the nation would not decide how many children each couple can get but at the same time the nation would not pay for the over time activities of the parents. This will strongly dissuade families from getting more active in bed than required. But Sikhs, Parsis, Jains would be exempted from this law because their TFR and population is already very low and they as a community are rich enough to care of the children.

Indians who do not want to be Indians - Please have a sense of dignity and shame and leave India. Stop utilizing the reservations and all the sops that is being handed out to you by the very country you dont want to be a part of. The country should hand them over a one way train ticket or a flight ticket to which ever country they want to go.

Solution to Kashmir - LoC into IB. India gets to keep its Kashmir while Pakistan gets to keep its. The Kashmiris who chant Jeeve jeeve Pakistan can be asked to migrate to Pakistan just like millions others who did the same in '47. The Hindus and Sikhs who are being persecuted in Pakistan can be got in return so that Pakistan does not complain of additional population and those Hindus can be re-settled in Kashmir.
 
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^^ If only wet dreams were real

I think you are commenting on his Kashmir solution - I too agree and probably some sane Pakistani's too that it's the best and only available solution, the other being extremes like war and terrorism. Proxy wars and terrorism can be played both sides and you have enough fundamentalists in your soil who can spread terrorism in equal measure in Pakistan too, so ideally this is the only solution available or people on both sides of the border die.
 
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India suffered terrorism for so many decades including 26/11.was that also result of india's karma?

Yes. We suffered from terrorism due to Pakistan. If indira Gandhi had not left Pakistan in the way it was this would not have occurred.

However we suffer because of Pakistan. Pakistan suffers because of itself.
 
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Yes. We suffered from terrorism due to Pakistan. If indira Gandhi had not left Pakistan in the way it was this would not have occurred.

However we suffer because of Pakistan. Pakistan suffers because of itself.
so you wont blame khalistan terrorism on india's wrong policies even kashmir terrorism started only after the rigged elections in late 1980s.It was the india which created chances for others to exploit.
 
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And, incidentally, the day I stand for election, I will have a clear manifesto, consistent with whichever party ticket I get, but personalised to represent my beliefs and principles. Until that time, this business of exchanging 'solutions' among each other on a defence forum discussion represents intellectual Onanism of the cheapest variety.

I will ask you a simple question which requires a simple answer - elections are coming in 2014 or possibly sooner. What would you as an Indian citizen do on that day keeping in mind the various problems facing the nation ?

a) UPA
b) NDA
c) Third Front if it emerges/regional parties
d) AAP
e) I will stand in elections on behalf of some party
f) I will log onto PDF and keep lecturing fellow Indians without going out to do my constitutional duty.

A very simple question that requires an equally simple answer cutting out all the un-necesssary essays.

I all probability I guess it would be (f)
 
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I will ask you a simple question which requires a simple answer - elections are coming in 2014 or possibly sooner. What would you as an Indian citizen do on that day keeping in mind the various problems facing the nation ?

a) UPA
b) NDA
c) Third Front if it emerges/regional parties
d) AAP
e) I will stand in elections on behalf of some party
f) I will log onto PDF and keep lecturing fellow Indians without going out to do my constitutional duty.

A very simple question that requires an equally simple answer cutting out all the un-necesssary essays.

I all probability I guess it would be (f)
How about maoist ruling the delhi ?that can be an option too much better than any other political parties looting the country.
 
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Yes. We suffered from terrorism due to Pakistan. If indira Gandhi had not left Pakistan in the way it was this would not have occurred.

However we suffer because of Pakistan. Pakistan suffers because of itself.

If India suffers from terrorism: its because of Pakistan

If Pakistan suffers from terrorism: its Karma

God Bless Indian Mentality :cool:

We will discount the fact that India started this whole concept of fighting proxy wars in neighbouring countries by supporting Mukti Bahini and LTTE. We will also discount the factor that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are actively supporting dissidents in Pakistan with money and weapons :).
 
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If India suffers from terrorism: its because of Pakistan

If Pakistan suffers from terrorism: its Karma

God Bless Indian Mentality :cool:

We will discount the fact that India started this whole concept of fighting proxy wars in neighbouring countries by supporting Mukti Bahini and LTTE. We will also discount the factor that Indian consulates in Afghanistan are actively supporting dissidents in Pakistan with money and weapons :).
This is not about an Indian mentality as much as it is about policies chosen.
India suffers terrorism because Pakistan decided it could not win conventional wars. Pakistan decided to create a jihadist network for Afghanistan and then diverted it to India expecting similar results.

However that backfired as Pakistan used it's own citizens for this. They fed radical Islam to their own population. This is why Pakistan is suffering.

India when it decided to dabble in this did not use its own citizens. Did not radicalize it's own population. That is why India was able to almost immediately stop the tap on ltte support or mukti bahini.

That is a key difference. Pakistan cut its own nose to spite it's neighbor.
 
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How about maoist ruling the delhi ?that can be an option too much better than any other political parties looting the country.

Irony to see a pakistani ( i assume so from the updated flag) tell an indian whom to choose to form a government..... ......

Since you said ruling delhi by maoists... even they can do that provided give up their arms and join main stream politics...

Can we ask TTP to do the same???....
 
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Another morose essay which with ever more caution seeks to deflect the hard questions asked and tries to take the other on a moralistic trip with no practical take on the issues.

(1) You fail to see, not unexpectedly, that the habit and practice of handing down 'answers' is only dictatorial. Only a people can decide, from the options offered by the political organisations competing for its attention, what is right and what is wrong, not some master figure on high.

I did not ask you to figure out a solution for me, I am pretty clear on what my ideas are and who I would be voting for, but rather asked from your perspective on what the best possible solution would be. Surely you with your 1000 word criticism must have an inkling on what the solutions to the ills facing India should be and which political party is in a best position to implement them.


That does not mean that I do not see where the trend is going and what is happening in India. We are clearly no longer ready to accept India-wide parties with India-wide programmes, which ignore local problems and specific development. That trend is clear, and it is clear that a series of regional solutions will be evolved on every aspect, on economics, on jobs and employment creation, on education, and on civic administration and governance. They will be different because the problems of Mumbai are different from the problems of Bengaluru, and those are both different from the problems of Yamunanagar or Saharanpur or Kolkata. Issues which seem important to ideologues and to bigots are gradually losing importance, as people gradually begin to realise that their problems will not go away if a Uniform Civil Code is applied, and one community brought to heel by majoritarian pressure.

If in Nitish Kumar's administration, young girls cycle safely and happily to school, and the crime rate has gone down, his policies will prevail, and it does not matter what they looked like at the outset, especially as he has made his sharp aversion to communalism clear. If in Mamata Bannerjee's administration, nothing moves except the CM's cavalcade, and industry leaves the state at an even faster pace than under the Communists, then she will be dumped, and another party - the Congress? the Communists? - will be brought back.

It is this that I keep talking about, that we do not need headlines and little tinpot dictators - no names, so no offence - strutting about informing everybody that they have the solution, and it is the magic formula to build the nation. We need more of the same that has distinguished us from our neighbours, the democratic process.

These are the things for which the state elections are there but the talk is about the Lok Sabha elections which have to take into account national issues as well - overall economy, foreign policy, military etc. Looks like you did not even begin to understand what is being talked about here. Your references to Nitish and Mamata clearly betray that.

And looking by the picture of it, you seem to be trapped in the Gandhian era of Gram Swarajya where power is devolved in its fullest to the lowest in the pyramid of governance with a clear disregard to some sort of central oversight.

A better suggestion - why not declare the 28 states into 28 countries so that people can keep voting on local issues ?

Nitish Kumar's sharp aversion to communalism..Oh God...do you have any sense of political instinct that is making Nitish say things that he says ? If he is clearly averse to communalism why he is bed with the BJP in Bihar which according to you is a fascist party ? Why is he not saying good bye to BJP in Bihar ? Or is your dislike for BJP limited only to Gujarat ? :lol:. The reason why Nitish opposes "communalism" but is in NDA is because he realizes that being in NDA is his only shot at PM post and for that he should first scuttle that "man-with-no-name"'s chance by invoking the magic wand of secularism.

Hey and Im not even going into your utterly hypocritical, typical pseudo-secular, frankly dumb attitude of labelling the Uniform Civil Code as some sort of majortarian pressure on a section of the minority. I'll just say you typify exactly what is wrong with the brand of "secularism" in India and why people like you are god send to the right wingers. And who said UCC will not solve any problem ? It will solve the problem of instant divorce based on mood swings, alimony in case of that, marriage age of girls which is a biological necessity and so on.

(2) Unfortunately, you have commented without any awareness of that test and what it seeks to establish. You might have been more circumspect otherwise. That test establishes links between personality traits and political belief. It was integral to my reply that some personalities, yours for instance, are not tuned to democractic process and can never understand ambiguity or diffuseness, but must always seek a hard, final solution. Like Hitler offered, and before him, Mussolini.

You are not advocating democracy - you are advocating soft anarchy. Let that be clear.

And considering that we are in some discussions arguing about the Uniform Civil Code, your muscular rejection of western definitions of fascism in an Indian context without taking into account the different conditions is downright laughable. Why do you think the British judges refused to apply a uniform code to a diverse country, and why do you think that civil and criminal law other than personal law in India is uniform? If you had the background and the information, you would have figured out that a legal system from a completely uniform country with regard to its religion and its personal laws cannot fit a completely diverse country without making exceptions.

So now British knew it all.. is it ? That Bhimrao Ambedkar, the father of the constitution and the numerous SC judges who have raised the issue are all fools now. That they did not know about India to the extent British knew...Do you also believe in the "white man's burden" because it was the same British who advocated that.

And the point is simple - if the law of the land discriminates its citizens based on religion then it is not a secular country. Period.

(3) No, I don't get to choose for you. I do get to evaluate the danger that you and your battalion represent to the country.

haha..come down from that high horse please. Just because you mugged up history books does not mean you are the A-Z on all things and that you get to decide what is dangerous to the country or not. Get it into you that both you and me are equal in front of the EVM. Both are worth just one vote.


(4) It is precisely this thinking that I deplore and oppose. Solutions are too sensitive to be left to the few. It is the obsession of the fascist mind-set to wish to solve problems out of the head of the great leader. It is precisely that mistake that lies at the bottom of every school-boyish request to me to offer 'my' solutions. What solutions? The people will decide. The people have always decided. The people will always decide. Unless a fascist comes to power with his solutions coming from the chosen few.

See again..you are beating around the bush..people will decide, time will decide blah blah...ofcourse the people will decide..depending on the alternative available to them...no one will come to power without the people voting for him/her. But once voted into power he/she is responsible for running the country and he is the one who is expected to have the solutions to the problems. He/she along with a few (the cabinet) will have to face the problems in the country and try to solve them. That is democracy einstein. I'm getting more and more afraid listening to your views which peep into the realm of anarchy.

Looks like the Americans who listen to those elaborate debates on the various solutions, measures the two guys have for running the greatest democracy and then vote on that are all fools...

But thankfully as @Sashan mentioned the likes of you are decreasing more than ever and we have people who actively like to participate in the democratic process with their own ideas and demand that their leaders have a clear idea what is their vision and how they will run the country.


And by your solutions..i meant what do you think is the way India should go..after all you are also one of the "people" who according to you will decide...or are you above them, the common cattle class and your role is just limited to criticizing anything and everything, being a part of the problem and not of the solution .?
 
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Irony to see a pakistani ( i assume so from the updated flag) tell an indian whom to choose to form a government..... ......

Since you said ruling delhi by maoists... even they can do that provided give up their arms and join main stream politics...

Can we ask TTP to do the same???....

the funny thing is that there is a higher probability of ttp capturing power than maoist
 
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Yes. We suffered from terrorism due to Pakistan. If indira Gandhi had not left Pakistan in the way it was this would not have occurred.

However we suffer because of Pakistan. Pakistan suffers because of itself.

:what: you are suffering from your Anti-Muslim tendency even before partition. Your history is ladden with communal Killings.


The same anti-Muslim mentality of Hindus led to creation of Pakistan. Gandhi ji has done nothing wrong.

Pakistan suffered from Indian state terrorism in 71 and till this day we are still to repay you in the same.

If got the chance in any era we should re-pay you.
 
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