Pakistan F-7PG the little plane that could

[thrilainmanila]

Just the production line rate of producing planes is rather slow for JF17 program , we should have already had 150 JF17 Thunders

Don't under stand why we can upgrade the technology on planes

1. Gripen have gone thru the upgrade from old technology to newer
2. F16 have gone thru 5 block of upgrades
3. F15 now is going thru similar technological upgrade or proposed upgrades

However can someone shed some light on the BVR story for the F-7 , I always thought our F16 were the first to bring BVR in Pakistan Airforce

what bvr missile could the pg fire, i thought the mirage III was the first plane to have BVR, and the PG was a point defence fighter, you need to understand the period pak purchased them litrally it was around the time indian started the escallation on the border in 2002. china at that point had nothing serious and the only available option was that. from what i read it was a good dog fighter but that was it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well my understanding was that the F7 plane was bought after the F16 A/B embargoes hit Pakistan air-force , we had ordered 45-60 F16 A/B

The planes bought obviously were newer planes and we had ability to completely dismember its parts and put to together once more in our facilities.
The only area where the Growth of the plane stopped was when
The point where we stopped its natural growth is when we arbitrarily stopped ideas of upgrade on the plane thinking that we could develop JF17 thunder in high numbers (which we have not)

To Amass 192 Jets , starting after 1988 to Present day its a great number and the Jets helped keep the Air-force in air do what is needed protecting the air.

The area we neglected was the planned Modernization effort on the planes

i.e
a) a improved Digital Cockpit
b) Next generation Radar

For Pakistan, we can't go back and keep buying 100-150 planes in market as we don't have oil or Gold mines
so Logically one would imagine if we invest in a plane , we can invest 25% more to move the plane at least 1 Generation up

What is logically possible with F-7 ? This could be a outsourced effort in China Modernization
(2-3 Year turn around)

a) Conversion of Analog to Digital Cockpit , Doable or not ? Yes doable
b) Can we Install a new Radar , Doable or not? Yes we can , and it will give us ability to install new Missiles on plane
Can the plane also have a AESA from China ? Why not
c) Can we increase the quantity of Missiles carried? Sure with Duel Missile Rack we can double the missiles
d) Can the plane's go thru MLU (Electrical upgrade / Servicing) ? Yes it can


Another hindrance we had in 1990s was no one was willing us to give us, technology share
We had lack of Technology Option , with China now producing latest Missiles and Avionics packages , this is not the case now, now 2016 every thing can be installed brand new on the plane

From 192 planes , if we can upgrade 100 planes with 4.0 Generation level standard and replace 92 planes with Thunders it would be a reasonable strategy.


Gripen is example of plane , that was released with certain qualities and the company who owned it decided to upgrade its Radar/Avionics (created the Next Generation) concept
Same plan just better "Software/Hardware / Radar"

So it goes to show you can take the existing platform and greatly enhance its capability by a Modernization effort , specially when you have limited resources

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

All of them are likely to be replaced by 2020, so I doubt there will be any major upgrades.



They will die too after 2020.



They will be gone by 2020, don't worry.

The same was said for the Paksitani Mirages, and they are going to be around for a while, longer than the date you give here. PGs are fairly new addition to the PAF, and have suitable and serviceable status. They are likely to see a weapons and situational awareness upgrade, to carry a HOBS or BVR weapon, and stay relevant for Air superiority role. I have flown both the Russian Mig 21, and the G modification, and its a real hornet this one.

 

[Shabi1]

Bangladesh bought them as stop gap interceptors .. Priced between 8-10 million per unit...

By all standards its ab obsolete platform much like PGs,Bisons or any other 3rd gen fighter...

Some people here are talking about upgrading F-7s... They forget that it's airframe/body has limitations ... It's nose for example can't house a bigger more capable radar.. It's combat radius,payload,radar etc etc can't be increased and so on...

Very true, F-7/J-7/Bison have short range, low payload and low detection range. However for point defence interception role where eventual engagement with aggressors occurs 50-65km ranges from the FOB they are perfect provided they have good airframe life left. These things were designed for interception and that is something they do really well. At these ranges it doesnt matter if opponent has a better radar, payload or range, as these features wont offer any advantage. The F-7PGs will be excellent as defensive fighters till they complete their airframe life.

The F-7BG is a multirole variant so for Bangladesh till they can induct better aircraft it gives them plenty of added capability for AG role.

 

[JonAsad]

My favorite picture -

 

[Shabi1]

F-7BG Cockpit

 

[Hamza913]

The same was said for the Paksitani Mirages, and they are going to be around for a while, longer than the date you give here. PGs are fairly new addition to the PAF, and have suitable and serviceable status. They are likely to see a weapons and situational awareness upgrade, to carry a HOBS or BVR weapon, and stay relevant for Air superiority role. I have flown both the Russian Mig 21, and the G modification, and its a real hornet this one.

The PAF stated both would be gone by 2015, and have now delayed the date to 2017. I am merely giving my estimation. 2020 doesn't sound too unreasonable. The PG variant might stay a while longer, but it wouldn't take long before it too retires.

 

[princefaisal]

PAF needs more 4+ generation aircrafts against the indian's 350+ aircrafts of 4th generation aircrafts. Upgrading F-7pg will still keep it in the 3rd generation. So it seems useless for F-7's & F-7pg's. However upgradation of two seater FT-7pg's seems appropriate, if used for training purpose.

 

[Blue Marlin]

uch a Upgrade would be ideal modernization effort

damn those j-7 are in immaculate condition. when were they built?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

damn those j-7 are in immaculate condition. when were they built?

Bangladesh Air Force: 32 x F-7 in service. 10× F-7MB reportedly retired, 16 F-7BG received in 2006 and 16 F-7BGI received in 2013.

The one in the picture may be the ones delivered in 2013.

 

[khanasifm]

F7 era aircraft airframe life is 2400 hours so rebuilt/overhaul after every 800 hours x 3 =2400 hours compared to mirage where the fuselage has no limit only wings need to be replaced after ? Hours so most of f7 p and pg is in need of replacement compared to jf17 4000 hours life and every 1200 hours needing airframe inspections and rebuilt if required no comparison

 

[khanasifm]

F7 internal fuel ~2400 liters vs jf17 3000 liters 1800 kg max external store vs 3600+ or 4000kg load

 

[khanasifm]

No comparison

 

[khanasifm]

Total sortie time for f7 is ~40 to 45 minutes w/o drop tanks and around 1 hour with drops compared to 1 30 minutes to 145 for jf so big jump

 

[syed_yusuf]

F7 internal fuel ~2400 liters vs jf17 3000 liters 1800 kg max external store vs 3600+ or 4000kg load

internal JFT fuel is 2300KG
External weapon carry capacity is b/w 4600 - 5000 KG