Pakistan F-7PG the little plane that could

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Unless the AIR force has plan to buy 300 Next generation planes , in next few years they really need to have a plan to upgrade F-7PG

I think your over exaggerating the marginal benefit of the F-7. The plane is a legacy fighter like @Viper0011. said.

Pakistani software engineers would be better off making equipment for the JFT. The opportunity cost for that is more than creating digital avionics for the F-7.

"We also have less horses and bayonets". Planes no longer need to be replaced 1 for 1. Each new generation jet is itself a force multiplier. If you want Pakistan to have a 10,000+ plane airforce, I can suggest the following planes: P-51 Mustang and Spitfire.

 

[fatman17]

No need for such expensive modifications as the type will be retired in the near future. spend the money on JFT programme

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I believe most of the F-7s in Pakistani arsenal has been made after 90s, hence the air frame has considerable life left. Is there any thought of any mid life upgrade program?

F7Ps are being phased out. The F7PGs shall stay on and will take new armament and modifications to stay relevant.

 

[Windjammer]

Known in some circles as the poor man's F-16, in fact the F-7PG proved potent to it's opponents, as acknowledged by an F-22 pilot after a joint exercise. Not known to many but the induction of the F-7PG gave PAF it's intial BVR capability.

 

[volatile]

I am frankly very much disappointed to see discussion/topic over here .Actually i also feel sorry for our current state ,PG`s were bought as stop gap measure to make up numbers against IAF bison/Jags but bison`s are going to retire and Jags are getting pretty lethal stuff and here we are planning to install BVR/Radar to 1960 plane .I am sorry my heart cries at the level we are and i know this is not easy for any of us .These birds should not be around more than 2025 by max .A solid plan has to be placed for there retirement and instead of wasting energy/talent to re-equip these planes efforts should be put on F31/J10 what ever doctrine suits us .But please close this topic as it sounds too humiliating

 

[Tipu7]

Instead of WASTING any time or FUNDs on F7 series (both P&PG)............ spend them on Thunder program and increase the production to replace this ''BABA G'' As soon As Possible................. Its getting tough to maintain and fly this air craft............ there is ABSOLUTELY no need to spend any thing on it................... Its risking lives of our Pilots ......I hate to admit the fact that this JUNK will stay in our air force even after 2020 along with ROSE Mirages

@Windjammer @MaarKhoor

Look at this......................

 

[Desertfalcon]

F-7 PG , deceptive plane that is actually larger then what it looks, armed with AIM-9 Air to air plane is first in line to welcome any visitors, the jet is still used in numbers in Chinese Airforce.
Similarly the plane is serving protection of Pakistan's airspace

Surprisingly large as other planes

Arrived in Pakistan Air-force in 1988 , approximately the same time Pakistan's F16 were embargoed
The arrival was slowly followed up with Pakistan's air-force putting its special touch on the plane

The plane went under 136 Improvements for security and safety. As discussed in the Youtube video the hard points were increased to 5 capable of carrying any combination of weapons.

The plane allowed Pakistan's Software Engineers to help develop head up display , to modernize the plane

Obviously the plane attained more fans when it participated closely with the F22P Planes from USA in joint training

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h (1,189 knots, 1,375 mph)) IAS
• Stall speed: 210 km/h (114 knots, 131 mph) IAS
• Combat radius: 850 km (459 nmi, 528 mi) (air superiority, two AAMs and three drop tanks)
• Ferry range: 2,200 km (1,187 nmi, 1,367 mi)
• Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft)
• Rate of climb: 195 m/s (38,386 ft/min)

Armament

• Guns: 2× 30 mm Type 30-1 cannon, 60 rounds per gun
• Hardpoints: 5 in total - 4× under-wing, 1× centreline under-fuselage with a capacity of 2,000 kg maximum (up to 500 kg each)
• Rockets: 55 mm rocket pod (12 rounds), 90 mm rocket pod (7 rounds)
• Missiles:
  • Air-to-air missiles: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, K-13, Magic R.550,
  • AIM-9
• 
  
  
• 
  
• Bombs: 50 kg to 500 kg unguided bombs

Avionics

FIAR Grifo-7 mk.II rada

The Engineering benefits Pakistan gained by cooperation on the F7 Plane paved way to the JF17 thunder a future for Pakistan's airforce

Let us not forget the baby is loaded with AIM 9 (4 MISSILES)

A tried and true design, it certainly has attractive lines!

 

[Maarkhoor]

Not known to many but the induction of the F-7PG gave PAF it's intial BVR capability.

I don't think so F&PG's are BVR capable

 

[Windjammer]

I don't think so F&PG's are BVR capable

They were inducted in middle of hostilities with India in 2002......not to fire sidewinders as we already had that capability.

 

[Maarkhoor]

They were inducted in middle of hostilities with India in 2002......not to fire sidewinders as we already had that capability.

FIAR Grifo-7 mk.II is not BVR capable radar, they flew thousands of sorties never pictured flying with SD-10 or PL-12. Post any picture i believe in that case you must have one.

 

[Blue Marlin]

They were inducted in middle of hostilities with India in 2002......not to fire sidewinders as we already had that capability.

which bvraams were used ?

 

[Shabi1]

The F-7BG variant Bangladesh inducted has various improvements over the previous PG version, including MFDs and the ability to carry BVR. Some Bangali's have even hinted at CFTs but yet to find a picture.


PAF never put its F-7PGs through the same upgrades, seems leadership prefers to replace them rather than upgrade them. Or could be that already upgraded and capabilities being kept under wraps.

PAF F-7PGs do have internal ECM and data link, perhaps linked with AWACs they will have much better situational awareness. Plus radar is not a limiting factor as SD-10s could be fired from a shorter range yet still BVR range nearer to its engagement envelope.

Regardless of capability F-7PGs should be retained much longer as it is one heck of a point defence fighter (being more advanced doesn't ensure superiority in that situation) and they allow pilots to log flight hours while not expending more capable platforms to wear. F-7Ps on the other hand need to be phased out as soon as possible.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The F-7PG need a modernized , Digital Situational Awareness capability addition

i.e Digital Monitor
i.e Lovely Recon pod , to give the pilots nice view of ground for special missions

The Radar , now that we do not have sanctions , should be bought that is of higher caliber (Range)
extend the range and also bring in SD-10

5 Hard point , can easily be extended to carry 2 duel missile racks , so 6 Air to Air missiles can be carried and 2 SD-10

The plane is as big as F16

Considering the F16 has gone thru 2-3 decade of Block evolution, there is no reason why the F-7 could not jump its capabilities by going thru "Innovative" upgrade

• Radar - Missile carriage - Digital Command Control - POD based EW

How does it impacts the Thunder platform?

DOES NOT , that platform is continuing to produce planes 10-15 planes a year

MLU conversion for F-7 could be done more rapidly for 150-190 planes

Strip it out - and add commercial new parts


Of course considering we have offer to buy 100 planes (Sukhoi, F-15SE, F22 or F35 etc) sure we can say lets buy brand new , considering I don't see us buying such bulk a modernization effort has to happen for F-7 for marginal cost of new plane purchase

• Think of of F-7 (Next Gen Upgrade) a new Block

 

[The Eagle]

The plan has already served and almost near retirement though such cost of upgrade will not be feasible and need stick to JF-17 program with all that budget.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just the production line rate of producing planes is rather slow for JF17 program , we should have already had 150 JF17 Thunders

Don't under stand why we can upgrade the technology on planes

1. Gripen have gone thru the upgrade from old technology to newer
2. F16 have gone thru 5 block of upgrades
3. F15 now is going thru similar technological upgrade or proposed upgrades

However can someone shed some light on the BVR story for the F-7 , I always thought our F16 were the first to bring BVR in Pakistan Airforce