Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

You need to go back and look into the atrocity rate of the F16's in their first 20 years of life span---it comes down to over 10%.

A lot of it has to do with inherited problems---and a lots of it has to do with maintenance problems---. So the atrocity rate of the J10's is nothing out of the ordinary---.

Even though Hondas and toyotas are very reliable cars---we still sell extended warranties for their upkeep---.

When a customer does not want to buy an extended warranty---we take them back to the service dept to show the number of cars under repair---.

The J10 is still developing---J10 A B C and maybe another model---each one of them are going thru extensive & extreme flight training---what is it---only been in deployment for just around 12-14 years.

The chinese don't want to tell anyone what extreme missions were they flying at the time of the accident---over half of them were bird strikes---.

I had posted a link of F16 and a detailed unit count of crashes each year of the first 20 years of flight---please someone if they can forward them to Chi---thanks.

Thks Sir

 

[ghazi768]

Nay sire we will wait till 2030 when j-xx will be enough mature to be inducted,till then we will produce a single engine short legged fighter which has to carry more fuel then ordnance and once jettisons drop tanks will surely have to run back to base aborting a mission because engine needs fuel.Then we will gather all used F-16 from everywhere and we will be largest f sola operator,look we are largest operator of legendary fighter it's a honour to be that.
If a war happens and we met a failure in AW we will just blame Govt and you know it will work.I sometime wonder Army takes government why it can't twist Government Arm to get new fighters rather housing schemes.

May I ask why that fighter is short legged, can you detail the arguments for this?

 

[ziaulislam]

people who are screaming typhoon, su 35 and j-10 should realize one thing
countries will likley be destroyed by running them selves bankrupt

what did countries like sweden did to counter USSR, developed home made sustainable platform
future for PAF is 250 odd thunders with standoff weapons and f-16s for strike rule. otherwise you end up bankrupt

reality is that we like bangladesh are a small country with no enormous wealth

 

[MastanKhan]

people who are screaming typhoon, su 35 and j-10 should realize one thing
countries will likley be destroyed by running them selves bankrupt

what did countries like sweden did to counter USSR, developed home made sustainable platform
future for PAF is 250 odd thunders with standoff weapons and f-16s for strike rule. otherwise you end up bankrupt

reality is that we like bangladesh are a small country with no enormous wealth

Hi,

About Sweden---it is technically incorrect---. Their true strength is Nato standing right behind them.

So---why does sweden produce an aircraft---. The reason being to keep their fighter aircraft industry alive---.

They come up with a small functional fighter---that give the country local jobs---and keep the technicians and aircraft engineers employed---.

The Gripen is there just to give Nato the breathing room to get into position---so that the big boys can come and do the job.

It really shocks me to see how illiterate most of you kids and adults are in matters of defence---.

What shocks me more is that the learning disabilities that you people have---.

Which means most of you people are illiterate to history---you have no access to books and other reading material---you have no access to books written by NON PAKISTANIS.

When fan boys talk---they need to remember---the pilot in the SU30 or the M2K has been flying for a much longer time in that bird.

And what did Gen. Chuck Yegaer say---" A better pilot is a more experienced pilot ".

In the history of warfare---larger numbers of heavy armor have always defeated lighter armor---.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

About Sweden---it is technically incorrect---. Their true strength is Nato standing right behind them.

So---why does sweden produce an aircraft---. The reason being to keep their fighter aircraft industry alive---.

They come up with a small functional fighter---that give the country local jobs---and keep the technicians and aircraft engineers employed---.

The Gripen is there just to give Nato the breathing room to get into position---so that the big boys can come and do the job.

It really shocks me to see how illiterate most of you kids and adults are in matters of defence---.

What shocks me more is that the learning disabilities that you people have---.

Which means most of you people are illiterate to history---you have no access to books and other reading material---you have no access to books written by NON PAKISTANIS.

When fan boys talk---they need to remember---the pilot in the SU30 or the M2K has been flying for a much longer time in that bird.

And what did Gen. Chuck Yegaer say---" A better pilot is a more experienced pilot ".

In the history of warfare---larger numbers of heavy armor have always defeated lighter armor---.

no disrespect, you do sweet talk and i cannot compete with you on that but none of your claims are backed by facts, you simply mock other people and do sophisticated talk...

more pressing issues than buying billion of dollars of plans are people dying of share hunger in pakistan

i dont think this would matter as facts dont count but FYI, no one was there to protect Poland or Ukraine in modern times..
Sweden WAS NOT PART OF NATO otherwise they would have gone for f-16s
we should learn from other countries, no country spend so much on defence when its own people are so poor, we dont have luxury of spending what we already are, otherwise we will remian poor and uneducated for ever and which would ultimately be our undoing, not being conquered by india

 

[umair86pk]

Hi,

About Sweden---it is technically incorrect---. Their true strength is Nato standing right behind them.

So---why does sweden produce an aircraft---. The reason being to keep their fighter aircraft industry alive---.

They come up with a small functional fighter---that give the country local jobs---and keep the technicians and aircraft engineers employed---.

The Gripen is there just to give Nato the breathing room to get into position---so that the big boys can come and do the job.

It really shocks me to see how illiterate most of you kids and adults are in matters of defence---.

What shocks me more is that the learning disabilities that you people have---.

Which means most of you people are illiterate to history---you have no access to books and other reading material---you have no access to books written by NON PAKISTANIS.

When fan boys talk---they need to remember---the pilot in the SU30 or the M2K has been flying for a much longer time in that bird.

And what did Gen. Chuck Yegaer say---" A better pilot is a more experienced pilot ".

In the history of warfare---larger numbers of heavy armor have always defeated lighter armor---.

I totally diagree with the last part of heavy armor Panzars like tiger and panther were out matched by weaker shermans and T-34s in WWII although they much more superior than their opponents in firepower and armor especially the tigers with massive armored and having the deadly 88s.

 

[MastanKhan]

I totally diagree with the last part of heavy armor Panzars like tiger and panther were out matched by weaker shermans and T-34s in WWII although they much more superior than their opponents in firepower and armor especially the tigers with massive armored and having the deadly 88s.

Hi,

I was waiting for this STUPID reply by one of my pakistani colleagues----. The suppy line for the sherman tanks started from the factory in the US and contd thru the ocean surface across the atlantic.

So, just don't look at one sherman tank against one panther or tiger----. Look and UNDERSTAND the overall scenario

Also you can train a tank crew in days---30 days---. For a fighter pilot of substance in today's aircraft---5-8 years flying.

http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/m4-sherman-vs-german-panther/

Americans produced around 50000 sherman tanks---yes---fifty thousand agaimst 6000 panthers----plus the allied forces had full time air support---.

Read the link---there are million more links from where this came from---there is a reason that I call you kids ILLITERATE---because you don't use your brains to think---you think with your feet---.

But again it is not as simple as that---the americans have changed the threshold level again---. Its current tank can out shoot an enemy tank by staying a 1000 yards away from the range of the enemy tank's---and even if it was within 2000 yards of enemy tank---a frontal attack would be useless.

So---in the 80's 500 heavy american tanks with gunship helicopters and anti tank missiles were there to take on 3000 russian tanks on the european front.

You---neither have the air space and neither you have aircraft that can fly deep---.

we should learn from other countries, no country spend so much on defence when its own people are so poor, we dont have luxury of spending what we already are, otherwise we will remian poor and uneducated for ever and which would ultimately be our undoing, not being conquered by india

Hi,

Really----you have not read @war&peace comments regarding that----. Did you know that when Prophet Muhammad passed away---there was not even a piece of bread in his house---but there were supposedly 9 swords hanging on the walls of his room--- Golda Meir.

 

[war&peace]

no disrespect, you do sweet talk and i cannot compete with you on that but none of your claims are backed by facts, you simply mock other people and do sophisticated talk...

more pressing issues than buying billion of dollars of plans are people dying of share hunger in pakistan

i dont think this would matter as facts dont count but FYI, no one was there to protect Poland or Ukraine in modern times..
Sweden WAS NOT PART OF NATO otherwise they would have gone for f-16s
we should learn from other countries, no country spend so much on defence when its own people are so poor, we dont have luxury of spending what we already are, otherwise we will remian poor and uneducated for ever and which would ultimately be our undoing, not being conquered by india

Bro @MastanKhan already pointed out from the example of Golda Meir (Israeli PM who signed an expensive arms deal with USA when Israeli economy was in shambles)
I give some examples from recent history. Just take the example of pre-Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait. It was one of the richest countries in the world...a small population sitting on an immense reservoir of oil...so they were filthy rich and arrogant SOBs (which they still are for most part)...But they some how did not invest in good defence systems and so they were like a sumptuous meal surrounded by hungry dogs like Iraq thus they were overrun by Iraq in mattes of days...Had they invested in good defence systems and established institutions, Iraq won't had fancied its chances and perhaps today the whole middle east situation might have been different.
Similarly, any country that overlooked its defence needs has been run down by another nation or proxies. That is why the concept of Jihad is so important in Islam...to defend yourself from enemies is your religious duty....Don't fall a prey to western propaganda of peaceful development and human development index etc....They have heavily invested in their defences along with human development...they sell you these concepts of peace and human development while they themselves develop the WMDs and there is nothing stopping to their madness.

 

[MastanKhan]

Bro @MastanKhan already pointed out from the example of Golda Meir (Israeli PM who signed an expensive arms deal with USA when Israeli economy was in shambles)
I give some examples from recent history. Just take the example of pre-Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait. It was one of the richest countries in the world...a small population sitting on an immense reservoir of oil...so they were filthy rich and arrogant SOBs (which they still for most part)...and they some how did not invest in good defence system and so there were like a sumptuous meal surrounded by hungry people like Iraq thus they were overrun by Iraq in mattes of days...Had they invested in good defence systems and established institutions, Iraq won't had fancied its chances and perhaps today the whole middle east situation might have been different.
Similarly, any country that overlooked its defence needs has been run down by another nation or proxies. That is why the concept of Jihad is so important in Islam...to defend yourself from enemies is your religious duty....Don't fall a prey to western propaganda of peaceful development and human development index etc....They have heavily invested in their defences along with human development...they sell you these concepts of peace and human development while they themselves develop the WMDs and there is nothing stopping to their madness.

Hi,

That is what makes me wonder---what kind of muslims these pakistani kids are---or what is their ethnic background---.

And then to top it off---their belief that their inferior item will overshadow and annihilate the enemy's superior product---what DUMB WORLD do these guys live in.

There is no peace unless you are strong---. Year 2002---2005 is in front of you guys---. When the weapons were made open and available and you had funds to get them---your enemy wanted to be your permanent friend---.

But the moment the fools in the air force donated the money for weapons---the enemy changed their stance and showed their real face---which was obvious to everyone but to the Paf.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

That is what makes me wonder---what kind of muslims these pakistani kids are---or what is their ethnic background---.

And then to top it off---their belief that their inferior item will overshadow and annihilate the enemy's superior product---what DUMB WORLD do these guys live in.

There is no peace unless you are strong---. Year 2002---2005 is in front of you guys---. When the weapons were made open and available and you had funds to get them---your enemy wanted to be your permanent friend---.

But the moment the fools in the air force donated the money for weapons---the enemy changed their stance and showed their real face---which was obvious to everyone but to the Paf.

Sir this happens when people start to act like fools and start believing in what the western media tells them. The more I look at this world, the more I get convinced that might is right.....everything else is a Mega BS. It was true in the Alexander the great's times and it is very much true today and will stay the true till the end of this world. That's why Islam being a pragmatic religion, recognises this fact and wants its followers to be prepared to defend themselves and do it fearlessly but unfortunately we have some "men" who would rather like to wear bangles and perform classical dance than taking up some balls and acting manly. In just a few decades we have seen so many countries destroyed and maps changed (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen) and most of that is happening very close to us. To the people who illogically and unrealistically talk about being peaceful and spending less on defence are basically the enemies of the nation. The least is to ignore them and the best is to throw into Arabian sea.

However I can see things getting positive for Pakistan in near future. PAF is redeeming itself slowly but I can assure you, they will get their past glory rather surpass it as I can feel the change in their attitudes.
US tilt towards India has happened for a reason. I believe that PAF will induct Russian airplanes and we can say some divine intervention is at work as Pakistan and Russia are getting close to each other as USA and India are moving closer. USA needs a scapegoat / proxy against China since it can't fight directly as latter has it by balls ( 2 trillions dollar of bonds are enough to bring uncle to his knees any time) so India is the best bet uncle sam can get and he is desperate to get India on his side against China. He is offering mouth watering deals of shifting F-16 production line to India. That may even leave France bruised and butt-hurt by Indians again as they see more benefits coming from USA. Now I'm quite sure that these Scorpene leak is job of CIA ... thus France and India will move apart from each other. That will open France again to Pakistan but the latter has no intention of going to them especially if Russia offers a good deal to Pakistan on Su-35 (and even Su-37) as now officials of Pakistan / PAF and Russia have started to confirm about the discussion regarding Russian airplanes and defence systems. That puts Pakistan in a very good position to negotiate a deal with west especially France for JF-17 and maybe for a limited number of Rafale. While India and USA are cornering China so much so on SCS that it will seek help from two of its friends in the region i.e. Russia and Pakistan. Russia has no intention of bending to USA and it has shown remarkable resilience under Putin and Uncle Sam is shocked but can’t do much against it.

 

[ziaulislam]

Bro @MastanKhan already pointed out from the example of Golda Meir (Israeli PM who signed an expensive arms deal with USA when Israeli economy was in shambles)
I give some examples from recent history. Just take the example of pre-Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait. It was one of the richest countries in the world...a small population sitting on an immense reservoir of oil...so they were filthy rich and arrogant SOBs (which they still are for most part)...But they some how did not invest in good defence systems and so they were like a sumptuous meal surrounded by hungry dogs like Iraq thus they were overrun by Iraq in mattes of days...Had they invested in good defence systems and established institutions, Iraq won't had fancied its chances and perhaps today the whole middle east situation might have been different.
Similarly, any country that overlooked its defence needs has been run down by another nation or proxies. That is why the concept of Jihad is so important in Islam...to defend yourself from enemies is your religious duty....Don't fall a prey to western propaganda of peaceful development and human development index etc....They have heavily invested in their defences along with human development...they sell you these concepts of peace and human development while they themselves develop the WMDs and there is nothing stopping to their madness.

nobody has the right to judge the poor if they haven't passed through your self..there is difference between poor economy and people literally dying of hunger and disease

no one is against weapons, point is focus should be indigenous weapons rather than buying expensive foreign toys

 

[war&peace]

nobody has the right to judge the poor if they haven't passed through your self..there is difference between poor economy and people literally dying of hunger and disease

no one is against weapons, point is focus should be indigenous weapons rather than buying expensive foreign toys

But that poverty is not caused by the defence budget because it is taken care of by the govt...The poverty is caused by the extreme corruption at the highest level, mismanagement of the fund and embezzlement, spending on name plate projects like metros and especially at a price multiple times of the original estimates...Did you ever think why the cost of any project in Punjab and centre is far more than any comparable project in our neighbouring countries....also the indirect taxation that makes the rich and poor pay the equal amount of taxes thus making a poor poorer and a rich richer .. dysfunctional system of baital maal where the big bellied and big bearded (like the lost eggs of dinosaurs) robbers rob it in the name of religion and deserving are left with broken peanuts only....so basically you are barking at the wrong tree (this is a figure of speech).

 

[ziaulislam]

But that poverty is not caused by the defence budget because it is take care of by the govt...The poverty is caused by the extreme corruption at the highest level, mismanagement of the fund and embezzlement, spending on name plate projects like metros and especially at a price multiple times of the original estimates...Did you ever think why the cost of any project in Punjab and centre is far more than any comparable project in our neighbouring countries....also the indirect taxation that makes the rich and poor pay the equal amount of taxes thus making a poor poorer and a rich richer .. dysfunctional system of baital maal where the big bellied and big bearded (like the lost eggs of dinosaurs) robbers rob it in the name of religion and deserving are left with broken peanuts only....so basically you are barking at the wrong tree (this is a figure of speech).

embezzlement happen in every sector INCULDING DEFENCE, do you mean to tell me that pakistan is not one of highest spending countries in defence..do you care to see how GDP spending in defence, it is one of the highest in the world
while when it comes to health and education we are not even in top 100, even poorest countries in africa are doing better

 

[Incog_nito]

Is there any chance that PAF might get used F-16s Block-15 with upgrade kits from:
US: remaining 12 F-16s
USAF: old F-16s Block-15
Venuezvella: old F-16s Block-15

Jordanian F-16s Block-15 are coming for sure... But what about others.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF demonstrated it's ability to scramble against an intrusion in three minutes instead of the usual six minute window.